Mar 13, 2011 1:54:40 PM
...rumours suggest Porsche's new road-racer may be launched as the Porsche 911 GT3 RSR...
In 2006/07, the Porsche 911 GT3 RSR race-car produced 485bhp from a 3.8-litre GT1-derived Mezger flat-six...
Porsche 911 GT3 RSR (MY2007)
Based on the current 911 GT3 RS, a particularly light and sporty derivative of the 911 GT3, the new GT3 RSR is designed to comply with the A.C.O (Automobile Club de l’Ouest), the FIA-GT and IMSA (International Motorsports Association) as well as VLN (Veedol Langstrecke Nuerburgring) regulations. Porsche decided to build the new GT3 RSR after analysing the A.C.O. and FIA regulations in a specification which allows a minimum weight of 1,225 kilograms (predecessor: 1,125 kgs) and permits the tyre width to be increased by two inches to now 14 inches. 35 kilograms of the required additional weight may be placed as ballast in the vehicle, contributing to a lower centre of gravity.
For the normally-aspirated Porsche engine this specification allows a capacity of 3.8-litres with two 30.3 millimetre air restrictors (predecessor: 3.6-litres, two restrictors with 29 mm diameter). The increase in displacement was achieved through the enlargement of the bore to 102.7 millimetres with the unchanged stroke of 76.4 mm. With the mandatory air restrictors, the unit delivers 359 kW/485 hp at 8,500 revs per minute. Maximum torque increased to 435 Nm. Top engine speed is reached at 9,000 rpm. Thanks to the increase in capacity and the corresponding reprogramming of the electronics the top performance as well as the response and driveability have further improved. The efficiency of the mid-front radiator was increased while the radiators flanking the centre unit on each side are the same as in the high performance Carrera GT.
The latest GT3 RSR features the proven sequential six-speed gearbox with ignition cut of its forerunner.
The bodyshell of the GT3 RSR with the welded-in safety cage is ten percent stiffer than its predecessor. Distinctive wheel arches widen the body by 50 millimetres on each side. The track is enlarged correspondingly; wheels and tyres of the maximum allowable dimension can be fitted.
The relocation of the supplementary oil tank (option), the power steering and the battery to the front improve the weight distribution. The front and rear lids, the front mudguards, the wider rear, the doors as well as the front and rear panelling and wing consist of carbon-fibre composite material. The rear and side windows are manufactured from light polycarbonate.
The newly-developed aerodynamic package improves the aerodynamic efficiency compared to the forerunner (type 996 GT3 RSR) by around seven percent. Airflow to and from the radiators, the brakes and the engine were further optimised. In compliance with the FIA and A.C.O. regulations the new GT3 RSR features a flat underbody.
The suspension with Porsche-optimised struts at the front and the Porsche multi-link axle at the rear corresponds to the configuration of the standard car. The modified kinematics are set-up for the wider tyre footprint and for the lowest possible camber change in rebound and compression. The new ZFSachs shock absorbers feature the Through-Rod-System with considerably lower chamber pressure and hence less friction than conventional dampers. As a result they offer a significantly improved response characteristic. The position of the rear axle was optimised. The axle features a new anti-rollbar, an adjustable upper link and an optimised lower link.
The brake system features six-piston aluminium callipers and 35 millimetre thick brake discs measuring 380 mm in diameter at the front and 30 millimetre four-piston aluminium callipers with 355 mm diameter discs at the rear.
Over the 2006/07 winter, 35 units of the new racing sportscar will initially be built.
Specifications 911 GT3 RSR* (based on 911 GT3 RS, Type 997)
Concept:
Single-seater, production-based racing car, not suitable for road use;
based on 911 GT3 RS;
Homologated summer 2006 for 24 Hours of Spa, Group 2 (National Championships) and spring 2007 (A.C.O., IMSA, FIA GT);
suited for worldwide GT racing.
Body: Coupé, monocoque;
based on the 911 GT3 RS;
lightweight all-steel body hot-galvanised on both sides; weight optimised;
front and rear panels, side-sills made of reinforced carbon-fibre, aerodynamically modified;
rear lid, panel and doors made of reinforced carbon-fibre;
front wheel arches, rear flared wheel arches made of reinforced carbon-fibre;
side and rear windows made of plastic;
adjustable rear wing made of reinforced carbon-fibre;
flat underfloor according to A.C.O. and FIA Regulations;
welded-in steel safety cage (30 metres/98feet of seamless steel tubes);
racing bucket seat with flame-resistant cover;
six-point seat belt, suited for Head And Neck Support System (HANS);
electrically operated fire extinguishing system;
pneumatic car jack.
Aerodynamics:
Variable by way of the rear wing, spoiler, front air dam, ride heigh.
Power unit:
Six-cylinder aluminium boxer engine, water-cooled; engine block and cylinder heads made of aluminium; four valves per cylinder; oil cooling by oil/water heat exchanger; variable valve timing (VarioCam); hydraulic valve play compensation; intake system with two restrictors measuring 30.3 mm/1.19" each on the 1225-kg A.C.O. version; individual throttle butterflies; dry sump lubrication with separate oil tank; coolant and engine oil pressure filling; exhaust gas treatment by two metallites in PE Design™; two oxygen sensors with stereo control; electronic MS 4.0 engine management; electronic ignition with solid-state distributor (six coils); sequential multipoint fuel injection.
Bore: 102.7 mm/4.04"
Stroke: 76.4 mm/3.01"
Capacity: 3795 cc
Compression ratio: approx 14.5:1
Engine output: 357 kW/485 bhp at 8500 rpm
Max Torque: 435 Nm/321 lb-ft at 7250 rpm
Output per Litre: 99.2 kW/134.9 bhp
Max engine speed: 9000 rpm
Fuel grade: Premium plus (RON 98 – 102), unleaded
Exhaust system in basic version to A.C.O.-specifications:
fan manifold with silencer (113 dBA drive-by)
Alternative exhaust systems:
1. Fan manifold with silencer to FIA standard (110 dBA idling).
2. Fan manifold with open tailpipes.
3. Fan manifold with tailpipes and catalysts homologated to DMSB or, respectively, for 24 Hours of Spa according to Belcar Regulations.
Electrical system:
12 V;
Motec display with data recording;
battery capacity 45 Ah;
alternator 140 Ah;
optional: Bosch Memory Card; Traction Control.
Power transmission:
Engine and gearbox bolted together to form one drive unit; drive power conveyed by double joint drive shafts to rear wheels;
sequential six-speed manual gearbox;
shift force sensor interrupting the flow of power; oil/water heat exchanger;
single-mass flywheel with three-plate reinforced carbon-fibre racing clutch;
clutch diameter 140 mm/5.5";
limited-slip differential 40/60 split or various other options.
Suspension:
Front: spring strut axle with Unibal joints and modified kinematics; wheel mounts suspended independently on track control arms and longitudinal arms; double coil springs (main and auxiliary springs) with adjustable spring rate; ZFSachs gas pressure dampers (through rod system); split lower track control arm for adjusting camber; adjustable bending-blade anti-roll bar; wheel mounts with double damper clamps; power steering with electrical assistance
Rear: multi-arm axle with Unibal joints and modified ki nematics, wheels suspended independently on five arms; axle mount fitted rigidly in position; double coil springs (main and auxiliary springs) with adjustable spring rate; ZFSachs gas pressure dampers (through rod system); split lower track control arm for adjusting camber; rear axle tie-rod reinforced and infinitely adjustable; infinitely adjustable bending-blade anti-roll bar.
Overall suspension infinitely adjustable (height, camber, track).
Brakes:
Twin-circuit brake system with front/rear split and balance bar control with main brake cylinder pulled; no ABS; six-piston aluminium monobloc fixed callipers at the front; four-piston aluminium monobloc fixed callipers at the rear; cross-drilled, inner-vented brake discs measuring 380 x 35 mm/13.78 x 1.38" in diameter and thickness at the front and 355 x 32 mm/13.98 x 1.26" in diameter and thickness at the rear.
Wheels and tyres:
Front: 11 J on Michelin 27/65 18 slicks
Rear: 13 J on Michelin 31/71 18 slicks
Weight:
1225 kg (2701 lb) according to A.C.O. and FIA GT Regulations
Power-to-weight ratio: 3.3 kg/kW (2.5 kg/bhp)
Dimensions:
Length: 4439 mm +/– 5 mm (174.8")
Width: 1957 mm +/– 5 mm (77.0")
Height: max 1250 mm/49.2"
Wheelbase: 2373 mm/93.4”
Track:
front: 1565 mm/61.6” (3.5o camber)
rear: 1620 mm/63.8” (3.0o camber)
Tank capacity:
100 litre (22 Imp gal)
safety tank with fast filling function
* Specifications may vary according to national regulations and requirements
Grant:
MKSGR:
The German price is Euro 203k incl. VAT.That means it'll cost around $185k USD if the typical ratio is maintained.
I think I'm not saying anything by pointing out that the "typical" ratio is not maintained.
Hint: Look at the GT2 RS prices in Europe and the US.
I also think that I can say without a problem that the last GT3 RS engine will also be the last Mezger derived engine in a Porsche 911 street production car.
If you are a car collector, this car is definetely the one you want to have, trust me.
P.S.: Thanks, Markus.
--
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW
Mar 13, 2011 4:12:40 PM
"Hello, 8800 RPM"
A 3.9 liter GT3 RS that claims 500 horsepower meets The Loop — and a 3.8-liter 2010 GT3...
...thanks to Excellence magazine!
Porsche-911-GT3-RS-500bhp_Sharkwerks-link
Porsche-911-GT3-RS-500bhp_Excellence-article
RC:
Grant:
MKSGR:
The German price is Euro 203k incl. VAT.That means it'll cost around $185k USD if the typical ratio is maintained.
I think I'm not saying anything by pointing out that the "typical" ratio is not maintained.
Hint: Look at the GT2 RS prices in Europe and the US.
On that basis, the 4.0L would cost $209k USD. That's pretty expensive (more than double a Carrera GTS and almost double a base GT3 3.8), but I would LOVE to have this car.
--
73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs). Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello
Grant:
On that basis, the 4.0L would cost $209k USD. That's pretty expensive (more than double a Carrera GTS and almost double a base GT3 3.8), but I would LOVE to have this car.
The sad part is: I could have had one but I declined. No money...and even if I could manage it....wife would shoot me instantly.
This would have been my keeper...well...
Family comes first though.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW
That daft level of pricing, might just keep the 3.8 RS and GT3 prices up and negate the worry that this new car would result in prices of the existing cars being hammered.
The limited run will also help to ensure this.
IMO I don't think any current 911 is worth that sort of money.
Mar 14, 2011 4:41:15 PM
RC:
Grant:
On that basis, the 4.0L would cost $209k USD. That's pretty expensive (more than double a Carrera GTS and almost double a base GT3 3.8), but I would LOVE to have this car.
The sad part is: I could have had one but I declined. No money...and even if I could manage it....wife would shoot me instantly.
This would have been my keeper...well...
Family comes first though.
RC,
Given that the next generation GT3 should be out in c. 2 years (with significant technical improvements as always I imagine), and considering the price of this limited edition version, do you still think this 4.0L GT3 would be worth buying ?
Thanks for the advice.
Mar 14, 2011 4:58:06 PM
matdaytona:
RC:
Grant:
On that basis, the 4.0L would cost $209k USD. That's pretty expensive (more than double a Carrera GTS and almost double a base GT3 3.8), but I would LOVE to have this car.
The sad part is: I could have had one but I declined. No money...and even if I could manage it....wife would shoot me instantly.
This would have been my keeper...well...
Family comes first though.
RC,
Given that the next generation GT3 should be out in c. 2 years (with significant technical improvements as always I imagine), and considering the price of this limited edition version, do you still think this 4.0L GT3 would be worth buying ?
Thanks for the advice.
Depends on what you are after ?
If you view PDK on the GT cars being a technical improvement and only care about fast lap times then wait.
If you want an 'involved' pure mechanical driving experience, which in my opinion is what makes the GT cars special then get a gen2 3.8 RS or GT3.
If you want a garage queen 'involved' pure driving experience that you will never experience through fear of harming the cars value then register your interest and buy the 4.0 RS.
Sorry, but i see the 4.0 RS's being bought by collectors that will lock them away in heated garages, or speculators looking to turn an easy £25k to £30k. Just look at the GT2 RS cars listed in the UK market.
If you are the sort of person looking to buy a 4.0 RS for a track weapon that will beat the 3.8RS, why not buy a cup car ?
Mar 14, 2011 5:02:22 PM
matdaytona:
RC:
Grant:
On that basis, the 4.0L would cost $209k USD. That's pretty expensive (more than double a Carrera GTS and almost double a base GT3 3.8), but I would LOVE to have this car.
The sad part is: I could have had one but I declined. No money...and even if I could manage it....wife would shoot me instantly.
This would have been my keeper...well...
Family comes first though.
RC,
Given that the next generation GT3 should be out in c. 2 years (with significant technical improvements as always I imagine), and considering the price of this limited edition version, do you still think this 4.0L GT3 would be worth buying ?
Thanks for the advice.
I don't know if there are still any keepers nowadays in this price range. Technology moves so fast and/or the produced numbers are most times too high.
The secret of life is to admire without desiring.
Mar 14, 2011 5:34:02 PM
cdixon:
matdaytona:
RC:
Grant:
On that basis, the 4.0L would cost $209k USD. That's pretty expensive (more than double a Carrera GTS and almost double a base GT3 3.8), but I would LOVE to have this car.
The sad part is: I could have had one but I declined. No money...and even if I could manage it....wife would shoot me instantly.
This would have been my keeper...well...
Family comes first though.
RC,
Given that the next generation GT3 should be out in c. 2 years (with significant technical improvements as always I imagine), and considering the price of this limited edition version, do you still think this 4.0L GT3 would be worth buying ?
Thanks for the advice.
Depends on what you are after ?
If you view PDK on the GT cars being a technical improvement and only care about fast lap times then wait.
If you want an 'involved' pure mechanical driving experience, which in my opinion is what makes the GT cars special then get a gen2 3.8 RS or GT3.
If you want a garage queen 'involved' pure driving experience that you will never experience through fear of harming the cars value then register your interest and buy the 4.0 RS.
Sorry, but i see the 4.0 RS's being bought by collectors that will lock them away in heated garages, or speculators looking to turn an easy £25k to £30k. Just look at the GT2 RS cars listed in the UK market.
If you are the sort of person looking to buy a 4.0 RS for a track weapon that will beat the 3.8RS, why not buy a cup car ?
Thanks cdixon. Actually I currently have a gen2 GT3 RS, and I have to say I absolutely love it ! Everything is perfect about that car, the feeling, the chassis, the engine, the noice... And I regularly drive it on racetracks. That's why i am seriously considering this 4.0L car. But I wonder if the 50hp difference is really worth investing another 70-80k ...
Mar 14, 2011 5:43:33 PM
I did give it some thought myself as i have an LOI in for the 991 RS (Just in case !).
However i Love my Gen2 GT3 so much and cannot justify what will probably amount to £90k extra over my car for the 4.0 RS.... Change for the sake of it, as i cannot yet drive beyond the abilities of my GT3.
Mar 15, 2011 12:52:32 AM
I hope they build less than 500. 500 is a LOT of cars considering how many standard 997s are built a year. They should build 100. I hope this car turns out like one of the coveted Porsches 10 years down the line (i.e 964 Turbo 3.6, 993 GT2, RS 2.7).
And I'm not addressing anyone particular here, but I hate it when tuners get 800hp out of a 911, and everyone complains why Porsche can't do it too. Don't people realize it's not easy to produce such a heavily modified car on a 500 unit scale? I'd like to see a tuner do that.
The Cup car is too raw for street driving and can't be driven on road anyway.
Different beasts.
I think this RS 4L or whatever will be amazing, the ultimate 911 and the last one ever produced with the GT1 unit.
A collector and a fantastic driver's car in one purchase.
I would give it some thought if you'd already owned a 3.8L RS, but otherwise, it should be a great purchase, value should remain high in the long run.
Futch:
I think this RS 4L or whatever will be amazing, the ultimate 911 and the last one ever produced with the GT1 unit.
A collector and a fantastic driver's car in one purchase.
Indeed.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW
Rossi:
I don't know if there are still any keepers nowadays in this price range. Technology moves so fast and/or the produced numbers are most times too high.
964 Carrera RS
993 Carrera RS
Ferrari 430 Scuderia
Carrera GT
997 GT2 RS
997 GT3 RS ("last edition")
968 CS
All keepers for me...
As you can see, only one Ferrari on that list.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW
RC:
Rossi:
I don't know if there are still any keepers nowadays in this price range. Technology moves so fast and/or the produced numbers are most times too high.
964 Carrera RS
993 Carrera RS
Ferrari 430 Scuderia
Carrera GT
997 GT2 RS
997 GT3 RS ("last edition")
968 CS
All keepers for me...
As you can see, only one Ferrari on that list.
Why not the 360CS?
Mini Clubman S
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
RC:
Rossi:
I don't know if there are still any keepers nowadays in this price range. Technology moves so fast and/or the produced numbers are most times too high.
964 Carrera RS
993 Carrera RS
Ferrari 430 Scuderia
Carrera GT
997 GT2 RS
997 GT3 RS ("last edition")
968 CS
All keepers for me...
As you can see, only one Ferrari on that list.
964/993 RS and 968 CS: yes, but I was talking about nowadays, you can hardly count these three in
Carrera GT: different price league
Scuderia: no, far too many built (if a Ferrari, then it is the Challenge Stradale)
997 GT2 RS/997 GT3 RS: IMO no, but we will see
--
The secret of life is to admire without desiring.
Stefan, you don't understand: I don't necessarily view these cars from a collector's/value point of view. These cars would be in my garage as keepers if money wouldn't matter (or not matter that much). I don't have a clue about collector values/etc., cars are for driving and I think you share the same opinion.
The 430 Scuderia is just some mean piece of metal, I just love it but I can't afford it (money, social acceptance, maintenance, etc. etc. etc.).
--
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW
Mar 26, 2011 3:31:56 PM
Apr 2, 2011 1:48:30 PM
Apr 2, 2011 1:59:57 PM
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW
Apr 2, 2011 2:48:11 PM
RC:
Have you read my post regarding the official data, release, design and price tag? As far as I heard, the new GT3 RS won't look much different than the old one. A decision which has raised some concerns within the Porsche marketing department, so there could be last minute changes but I doubt it. There also seem to have been technical issues with the engine development.
Thanks RC -- much appreciated!
I agree with the view that the 997 GT3 RS(R) 4.0-litre really needs to look distinctively different from the GT3 RS 3.8-litre, rather than just borrowing a few parts from the GT2 RS and offering a new paint scheme and decal...
...a little inspiration for Andreas Preuninger and the team of Porsche's elite engineers from Weissach working on the new GT3 RS(R) 4.0-litre...
I wonder if Porsche's marketing department has acknowledged that Porsche owners' general reaction to the Porsche 918 Spyder has shifted significantly between (i) the original concept show car (e.g. "absolutely stunning, we all want one") and (ii) the order-book launch with a few dubious "design sketches" (?) and an overly ambitious price point, where most who originally expressed an interest now seem to be considering the alternatives...
...the 4.0-litre 500bhp (Mezger GT1-derived) motorsport engine in the new GT3 RS(R) will be awesome, but let's hope the rest of the package can meet Porsche owners' expectations!
Apr 13, 2011 7:59:19 PM
Apr 13, 2011 8:11:54 PM
I don't have a clue, to be honest. The price tag doesn't seem to be right but my dealer just told me yesterday that there were some issues with customers who ordered the "Limited Edition" blindly and apparently all were shocked with the unofficially leaked 206000 EUR price tag. Another theory is that Porsche wanted to charge that much money for a really special edition model with a different body and even PDK but due to technial/approval issues, this project had been abandoned and the customers get practically the same GT3 RS, just with the 4.0/500 hp engine and a few chassis tweaks.
I wish I knew more but something weird is going on because first cars are supposed to go to customers in May. Not much time left to officially announce the car.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW
Almost sure that list is fake, or altered in some way.Member "wtdoom" on TS says "breaks" is spelled wrong, the car will be a MY2012, not MY2011, the only Euro country with a 20% VAT is Italy, and Porsche always uses the PS and not BHP for Germany releases. (all thanks to "wtdoom" of Teamspeed for clearing that up!)
As ar as I know, GB also charges 20% VAT on cars. If someone considers, what companies such as Manthey charge for an engine upgrade with increased displacement on the GT3, the above price would be somewhat reasonable. To get one of the last GT3 with a genuine Mezger engine, with increased displacement that is, would certainly get me interested. Now where is my change...