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    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Carlos from Spain:
    Physics is a lot more complicated than that, especially on a rear engined car. How can it drive more like a Panamera and supposedly lap the ring in the same lap time as a 997GT3 with less HP? I'd take that WB increase on paper if I can get that sort of handling from a CarreraS. But I think we are getting ahead of our selves, we still know very little about the 991 to come to any conclusions based on a few disjointed details. I'm still also wondering about the effect of that new rear wing, or the 20" wheels that that test car looked like had on too.

    Physics are just that. And what I meant is that a WB increase will affect physics and to me that is the polar moment. Having said that, rest assured the 991 will be a better performance car than the 997. If sheer performance is what one is after then you will get that, I do not doubt. But there's more than performance...

    P.S. - I would be very surprised if the 991 laps the ring faster than a '10 GT3, but who knows? 


    --

    _________________________________________________________________ 

    "Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

     didn't look like glass in the spy photos 


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    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    The original photo was heavily distorted at the rear - here shortened rear overhang , into more realistic proportions .

    Porsche-5 misha BBS FI 01 short.JPG

     


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    ADias wrote:

    Physics are just that. And what I meant is that a WB increase will affect physics and to me that is the polar moment.

    [...]

     

    Polar moment is only half of the equation. The other half is the torque applied to the body, to make it rotate. And that torque is the result of the lateral forces generated by the tires, multiplied by the moment arm which happens to be 1/2 of the wheelbase. So a longer wheelbase helps the car rotate more easily, assuming the polar moment of inertia is unchanged.

    The point is, you have these two countervailing factors, both grounded in physics, both of which increase with the WB. Which will win? 

    Kamal (MA)

     


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    ADias:

    Physics are just that. And what I meant is that a WB increase will affect physics and to me that is the polar moment. Having said that, rest assured the 991 will be a better performance car than the 997. If sheer performance is what one is after then you will get that, I do not doubt. But there's more than performance...

    P.S. - I would be very surprised if the 991 laps the ring faster than a '10 GT3, but who knows? 

     

    If I chose the -20mm sport suspensions and RWD for a car that I have put almost 120,000km on, then that gives you an idea of what I'm after in a 911, its no garage queen and it no confortable boulevard cruiser either Smiley

    And my previous 996 had the sport suspensions option from day one as well, yet the 997 even though heavier was better handling and more fun to drive. If we were to simplify physics here like with the wheelbase, then the increased weight of the 997 over the 996 would necesarily imply the opposite, and that is not the case because there are many other factors that contribute to the overall result in handling and character.

    BTW, it seems like the 997 will be heavier than the 991... and the Panamera is also heavier than the 991... so the 997 is closer to the Panamera? just j/k tongue.gif

     

    I will be very susprised as well if the 991 CarreraS can match a 997GT3 in the ring, and I quite don't believe those 7:40 lap rumors it until I see it  Smiley

    Smiley


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    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    kudos to you Adias... driving a Porsche like it is meant to be! Thumbs Up!


    --

    997.2 PDK C2S


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Fuchwheeler:

    kudos to you Adias... driving a Porsche like it is meant to be! Thumbs Up!

    No credit for me. If anything... Carlos is the one who drive his 997 like it was meant to be. He drives it mostly on  the road - and one specifically road with excellent surfaces, beautiful sweeping turns. I am sure his car's lifetime average speed is quite high. :)


    --

    _________________________________________________________________ 

    "Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    yup... sorry was meant at Carlos... darn too much of a drink these few nights.


    --

    997.2 PDK C2S


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    ADias:
    Fuchwheeler:

    kudos to you Adias... driving a Porsche like it is meant to be! Thumbs Up!

    No credit for me. If anything... Carlos is the one who drive his 997 like it was meant to be. He drives it mostly on  the road - and one specifically road with excellent surfaces, beautiful sweeping turns. I am sure his car's lifetime average speed is quite high. :)

    Thank you Toni (and Fuchwheeler), I know you know that road well Smileyand that we share the same idea on how a sportcar should drive, so lets hope they don't screw it up on the 991.

    The average speed of my 997S as shown on my PCM is 98-97km/h because of those roads I get to "commute" in, the days I have to grab the car for work, the drive is the best part of the day! and the 911 fits like a glove for that Smiley


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    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

     Will be the 991 be reveiled at the Geneva Salon? Because it seems it will be soon because so much of the camo has been removed.


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    palenimbus:

     Will be the 991 be reveiled at the Geneva Salon? Because it seems it will be soon because so much of the camo has been removed.

    I sincerely hope that the 991 will be revealed in Geneva, but I'm afraid that it doesn't make much sense considering that the 997 GTS and Speedster models haven't hit the streets yet. I feel the same way about all the camo coming off; the 958 Cayenne was at the same level of camo nudity around this time last year and we saw it in its full form in March 2010.

    I hope I'm wrong and we see the icon in March, but who knows...


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    I wish they would show the 991 in March in full flesh too - but if the car only comes in Sept or later for delivery I am afraid they would kill their current sales with it. Maybe summer with some Press-cars or preproduction model to fill up the ordering book. Did anybody already asked their dealers for slots ?


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Porsche Genetic Code: 28,000 Victories...

    Smiley SmileySmiley SmileySmiley


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

     That says it all, doesn't it? Great video!


    --

    "When you design a car around the customer's wishes, you get cup holders. When you design a car around innovative thinking, you get a Porsche."


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    SmileySmiley Thanks


    --
    2006 987S, Artic Silver, Cocoa, Cocoa Top 2006 Cayenne S Lapis Blue New York

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

     I love this video specool.gif


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    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Someone should send this video to the product manager of the Cayenne Diesel and ask him for a brief comment.

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    It's the spirit of the marque...

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Wonderful video - really uplifting  


    --


    RT Moderator - 997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm sports suspension/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Pretty decent summary of the Autobild article: http://www.worldcarfans.com/110122730187/2012-porsche-911---new-details-reported

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

     Autobild reports that the base 991 Carrera width remais the same, but higher versions will increase by 60mm... this means a Carrera 991 4S with more then 1,91 meters?

    Can someone say if front ligths on the 991 will be similar to the 997 or something diferent...


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    pjd:

     Autobild reports that the base 991 Carrera width remais the same, but higher versions will increase by 60mm... this means a Carrera 991 4S with more then 1,91 meters?

    Can someone say if front ligths on the 991 will be similar to the 997 or something diferent...

    I think it means 60mm more compared to standard version. Now it is 44mm more.

    I don't understand this statement though Smiley

    "The next-generation 911 will be 56 mm longer than the current one and measure 4.49 meters in length. The wheelbase has also been extended by 10 mm and the car will stand 11 mm shorter."



    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    They're talking about a weight reduction of only 20kg. I promise, when the car hits the road you won't see a weight-difference compared to the 997, due to the increased dimensions.


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Article in AMS today:

    • Intro at Frankfurt in the Fall
    • Increase in WB driven by US market requirements, where fuel consumption thresholds are partly based on wheelbase and track (my German is rusty...)

    http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/news/erlkoenig-porsche-911-991-ab-2011-mit-knackigem-heck-871543.html?fotoshow_tab=bild&f...


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Rossi:

    They're talking about a weight reduction of only 20kg. I promise, when the car hits the road you won't see a weight-difference compared to the 997, due to the increased dimensions.

    The car is only 2" longer - I think it's very possible we'll see the small projected weight loss.


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    reginos:
    pjd:

     Autobild reports that the base 991 Carrera width remais the same, but higher versions will increase by 60mm... this means a Carrera 991 4S with more then 1,91 meters?

    Can someone say if front ligths on the 991 will be similar to the 997 or something diferent...

    I think it means 60mm more compared to standard version. Now it is 44mm more.

    I don't understand this statement though Smiley

    "The next-generation 911 will be 56 mm longer than the current one and measure 4.49 meters in length. The wheelbase has also been extended by 10 mm and the car will stand 11 mm shorter."



    Wordcarfans translation sucks big time-as usual when they try to translate from German.

    Original Auto Bild article directly says: zehn Zentimeter mehr Radstand(ten cm's longer wheelbase).

    991 will be 56mm longer, 11mm shorter in height and 60mm wider.


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    reginos:
    I don't understand this statement though Smiley
    "The next-generation 911 will be 56 mm longer than the current one and measure 4.49 meters in length. The wheelbase has also been extended by 10 mm and the car will stand 11 mm shorter."

     
    Probably lost in the translation, but assume AutoBild is saying that the standing height of the 991 will be 11mm lower than the height of the 997...

    Smiley

    _______

     

    Porsche-911-Illustration-560x373-4efeedfa5e90ce7b.jpg

    Porsche-911-Illustration-560x373-905a21807287eb3e.jpg

    Porsche-911-560x373-ef9846251bd3500e.jpg

    German magazine Autobild has reported new details on the upcoming 2012 Porsche 911 in its print edition.

    According to the report, there are more changes coming to the 911 than initially expected.

    First off are the new dimensions of the next 911. From the spy shots we could spot that the model has been stretched but Autobild now has the exact numbers.

    The next-generation 911 will be 56 mm longer than the current one and measure 4.49 meters in length. The wheelbase has also been extended by 10 mm and the car will stand 11 mm shorter.

    The standard 911's width remains the same but the Carrera variant will feature a 60 mm wider rear end.

    A completely new rear axle has been developed for the next 911 too and its engines have been revised for improved performance and fuel-economy.

    The entry-level 3.6 liter Boxer engine gets shrunk down to 3.4 liters and produces 350 PS (257 kW / 345 bhp) for a 0 to 100 km/h sprint time of 4.8 seconds and a top speed of 289 km/h (180 mph). Fuel-economy is down 13 percent to 8.5 liters/100 km (27.7 mpg-US).

    For the Carrera S, a revised 3.8 liter unit will come with 400 PS (294 kW / 395 bhp) and feature a 0 to 100 km/h sprint time of 4.5 seconds and a top speed of 302 km/h (188 mph). Fuel-economy is reduced by 14 percent to 9.1 liters/100 km (25.8 mpg-US).

    The next 911 will weigh about 20 kg less than the current one in base-model configuration and will come with 19-inch wheels. The Carrera S model gets 20-inch wheels as standard.

    The 2012 Porsche 911 will debut at the Frankfurt motor show in September 2011.

    Source: AutoBild

    _______
     

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    ...
    • Increase in WB driven by US market requirements, where fuel consumption thresholds are partly based on wheelbase and track (my German is rusty...)

     

    It appears I was correct all along. The government is now designing the new cars.


    --

    _________________________________________________________________ 

    "Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    The rear crease above the tail lights and the lights themselves look like an Aston Martin.....


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    ADias:
    ...
    • Increase in WB driven by US market requirements, where fuel consumption thresholds are partly based on wheelbase and track (my German is rusty...)

     

    It appears I was correct all along. The government is now designing the new cars.

    Well, the gov't has been involved in designing cars for quite some time. Think back to the 70s 911, US version, for example: headlights, bumpers, ride height, as well as power output and speedometer markings were all the result of gov't mandates.

    Try blipping the throttle on any recent manual transmission car, with the clutch depressed and with the clutch released. Notice the difference in how quickly or slowly the RPMs drop in both cases as you get off the throttle? That difference is due to gov't mandated emissions controls. People spend money on lighter flywheels, when it is really emission requirements that slow down engine response in some cases; ironic...

    What about lawyers (or rather the legal system) and their role in designing our cars? For example, note the height difference between brake and gas pedal on most modern cars (90s and newer, and VWs in particular). To me, this makes heel and toe-ing more difficult. That's done in order to differentiate the feel of the two pedals, to make an unintended acceleration lawsuit easier to defend against.

    Design has always been about finding an optimal or near-optimal solution given a number of different, often conflicting, objectives, subject to various constraints including gov't regulations. It is an activity that therefore involves countless trade-offs. Apparently, the Porsche engineers concluded that the benefits of a marginally longer WB -- a more permissive fuel consumption category and greater rear legroom -- outweighed the costs. The sky is not falling, yet.


     
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