Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - GTS specs and some questions.. - Page2

Oct 26, 2010 4:57:42 PM

nick1: Senior; Loc: austria; Posts: 668, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 23, 2004; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: GTS specs and some questions..

easy_rider911:

Ferdie, sure, if you are driving at very high speed on the Autobahn then, of course, I agree with you - fuel gets used up much faster so you might well need a bigger fuel tank. I was talking about the kind of motorway miles that we have to do in the UK where our max speed limit is only 70mph. I can do 400 miles if I keep to 70 mph

Regarding your calculation, I realise that 90 less 67 = 23 litres but I wouldn't advocate driving around with a full standard tank of fuel either. So comparing a full standard tank vs a full bigger tank is not relevent to my situation. I usually keep it less than half full - the car just feels different then. Less turn in but more agile. So 90 less about 33 litres is about 58 litres of fuel. And you can tell the difference when you carry an extra 60 litres. My favourite is when the fuel is close to empty - the car feels really nimble then. I also like to top up fuel more regularly too - rather than letting the fuel just sit there in the tank for some weeks.

I might be very unattentive, but i really dont feel any difference in driving if the tank is full or empty.

Maybe because i have a Cayman...

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Oct 26, 2010 5:11:21 PM

nick1: Senior; Loc: austria; Posts: 668, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 23, 2004; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: GTS specs and some questions..

Ferdie:

nick1:

still undecided on the sports Pasm though...

Nick,

I can only refer to the 997.1 sport suspension which, as stated here, has its benefits in terms of handling. The ride quality is certainly stiffer and, in my opinion, at the limit of tolerability for a daily driver. From my understanding, the 997.2 sport suspension seems to be similiar in terms of ride quality.

AMS tested both suspensions next to each other with the verdict that the harsher ride does not translate in significantly improved performance. If one should trust them? Sport Auto however has not found any complaints on that account:

Thanks a LOT for the article! Smiley

I had a distant memory of reading it, but forgot it.

After reading the AMS test it looks like the only benefit of the Sport PASM would be -10mm. This feature would be nice, but is not worth the € and also not worth the reported loss of comfort.

Guess i will delete this, and go with the standard PASM with LSD.

thx again!

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Oct 27, 2010 11:46:46 AM

John H: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cheshire, UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 7682, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 20, 2005; Reply to: nick1

Re: GTS specs and some questions..

In the UK both choices (SPASM + LSD or PASM + LSD) are the same price - is that not the case elsewhere?

--

"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

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Oct 27, 2010 1:34:33 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: John H

Re: GTS specs and some questions..

It is the same. Because the extra cost of SPASM over PASM is the LSD that is included in the SPASM package. The rest of the changes (different dampers, shorter springs and larger diameter anti-roll bars) don't entail any additional cost to the manufacturer.

So if LSD is chosen as an extra together with the standard PASM the total cost is equated.

--

"Form follows function"

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Oct 27, 2010 2:57:11 PM

John H: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cheshire, UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 7682, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 20, 2005; Reply to: reginos

Re: GTS specs and some questions..

I thought that would be the case but, in his post above, Nick seemed to think SPASM was more expensive - hope that hasn't affected his decision...?

BTW - Nick...I think you made the right choice anyway..

--

"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

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Oct 27, 2010 3:06:12 PM

nick1: Senior; Loc: austria; Posts: 668, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 23, 2004; Reply to: John H

Re: GTS specs and some questions..

I got some info from my dealer, just processing it. Cost is in this case a non issue, just need to understand the stiffness situation.

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Oct 27, 2010 3:12:02 PM

nick1: Senior; Loc: austria; Posts: 668, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 23, 2004; Reply to: nick1

Re: GTS specs and some questions..

so, finally got it. Was kinda hard to cut it out of the PDF:

this is the PASM

And this is SPORT PASM

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Oct 27, 2010 3:14:30 PM

nick1: Senior; Loc: austria; Posts: 668, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 23, 2004; Reply to: nick1

Re: GTS specs and some questions..

In my understanding, to really compare the 2 graphs one needs to lay them over another.

BUT they must correspond not over the borders of the graphic but on the blue thin line (Serienfahrwerk), because this is the Standard Suspension.

In both cases Red is the sports mode and green is the normal mode.

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Oct 27, 2010 3:38:05 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: nick1

Re: GTS specs and some questions..

What is Serienfahrwerk? The non-PASM of the 3.6 model?

--

"Form follows function"

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Oct 27, 2010 3:52:22 PM

nick1: Senior; Loc: austria; Posts: 668, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 23, 2004; Reply to: reginos

Re: GTS specs and some questions..

I Suppose so...

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Oct 27, 2010 4:10:54 PM

GR: Senior; Loc: S Bucks, England , United Kingdom; Posts: 779, Gallery; Registered on: May 17, 2005; Reply to: nick1

Re: GTS specs and some questions..

Fantastic graphs. I have a Cayman S with -10mm PASM and a friend has a Carrera S -10mm PASM so I can probably translate my experience to the 997. Firstly, the 997 is definitely a little bit softer than the 987 and I have 18” compared to 19” on the Carrera S/GTS so bearing that in mind:

On the road at slow speed (around town on typically poor UK roads) the ride is good in normal, terrible in sport
At medium speed, normal is comfortable but starts to feel a bit roly poly; sport sharpens up the body control but at the expense poor ride and sometimes poor traction on bad surfaces
At high speed, sport is comfortable and offers pretty good body control (I’d prefer something a little better)
In normal mode, the dampers try to stay as soft as possible but stiffen when required; in sport mode it’s the other way round

Correlating this to the 2 graphs (and I’m assuming the graphs represent damping force compared to input velocity, which is broadly proportional to car velocity) the low speed response of the -20mm SPASM is probably comfortable enough for UK roads in normal mode (the green zone far left); at medium speed things might be a bit jiggly even in normal mode and at high speed I reckon it will be quite comfortable. I’d still want to try it before speccing it but on paper I would say -20mm is the way to go.

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Oct 27, 2010 4:25:03 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: GR

Re: GTS specs and some questions..

Very useful info - thanks v much for posting nick1 I have the equivalent graph for the different 997.1 suspension set ups but this is the first time I have seen the graphs for the 997.2 suspension set ups.

--

RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

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Oct 27, 2010 4:29:41 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: GTS specs and some questions..

Assuming that the blue standard suspension line can be used as a guide, broadly speaking, -20mm S-PASM in Normal seems very similar to the area of overlap between -10mm PASM Normal and -10mm PASM Sport. -20mm S-PASM in Sport seems really only for track use IMvHO.

This confirms what I guessed before. For me, -20mm S-PASM is more to my tastes than -10mm PASM Smiley

--

RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

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Oct 27, 2010 5:23:49 PM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8234, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: GTS specs and some questions..

I´d have a very hard time to evaluate the subject based on the damping characteristic alone. As GR pointed out, the above graph shows the dampingforce in relation to damping speed which is only one part of the equation. The S-PASM gets significantly stiffer at higher speed in comparison to PASM and std. suspension, less so at low speed. Being 10 mm lower, I do expect the springs to be stiffer as well.

If you cannot enable an additional testdrive in the S-PASM car I´d evaluate the characteristic of a PASM model and evaluate whether any additional stiffness would be convenient or cumbersome for you.

This, in comparison, is the graph of the 997.1 suspension:

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Oct 27, 2010 5:52:18 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: GTS specs and some questions..

The very useful graphs above compare damping force of the PASM and the SPASM active dampers. Keep in mind that the SPASM car is even stiffer due to the shorter and stiffer coil springs and the thicker stabilizer bars.

So another element of stiffness must be added to the stiffer SPASM dampers.

--

"Form follows function"

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Nov 20, 2010 6:14:06 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: reginos

Re: GTS specs and some questions..

A very good GTS review

http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/FirstDrives/Porsche-911-3.8-Carrera-GTS/254247/

--

"Form follows function"

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Nov 20, 2010 9:04:35 PM

John H: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cheshire, UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 7682, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 20, 2005; Reply to: reginos

Re: GTS specs and some questions..

Many thanks for posting Reginos it's the most comprehensive review I've seen to date and clarifies some of the grey areas where I, and I believe Nick, were hovering in final choices.

i.e. the following remark made re PASM vs SPASM...

"The wider track (by 2mm at the front and 32mm at the rear) has allowed some suspension reprofiling, so you get stiffer springs and anti-roll bars. The 19in rear tyres are wider too, at 305/30. Porsche claims the GTS is “more neutral” than the Carrera S.... Pock-marked, urban roads don’t seem to trouble its suspension set-up (we’d think long and hard before choosing the optional sports chassis with limited-slip diff)"

It answers the questions posed earlier in this thread when I quoted...

"BTW - there are some suspension adjustments to the GTS and those together with LSD will suit me just fine"..

Nick asked...

"What suspension adjustments do you mean, i searched the whole porsche site but found no difference to the CS"

So now we know the answers to that aspect..

Anyone else planning on joining Nick, Don and I by choosing a GTS..?

--

"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

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Nov 20, 2010 9:54:20 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21151, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: John H

Re: GTS specs and some questions..

Good to hear because I would think that stiffer springs and anti-roll bars would be necesary to compensate for the wider track since the tires would have bigger leverage on the chasis, right?

--

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Nov 20, 2010 11:12:23 PM

nick1: Senior; Loc: austria; Posts: 668, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 23, 2004; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: GTS specs and some questions..

Here are some Other Reviews:

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/Search-Results/First-drives/Porsche-911-Carrera-GTS-2010-CAR-review/

http://www.motorauthority.com/review/1051604_2011-porsche-911-gts-first-drive

http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/FirstDrives/Porsche-911-3.8-Carrera-GTS/254247/

German : http://www.autobild.de/artikel/porsche-911-carrera-gts-fahrbericht-1294763.html

Also AMS had a go ( pretty positive), and Sport Auto.

AMS and Motorauthority mentioned (eventuall) untersteer As a result of very high grip @ The rear axle.

Hope The unterster isnt too Bad

please post any other reviews i might have missen.

cheers

nick

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Nov 21, 2010 7:20:10 PM

John H: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cheshire, UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 7682, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 20, 2005; Reply to: nick1

Re: GTS specs and some questions..

nick1:

Here are some Other Reviews:

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/Search-Results/First-drives/Porsche-911-Carrera-GTS-2010-CAR-review/

http://www.motorauthority.com/review/1051604_2011-porsche-911-gts-first-drive

http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/FirstDrives/Porsche-911-3.8-Carrera-GTS/254247/

German : http://www.autobild.de/artikel/porsche-911-carrera-gts-fahrbericht-1294763.html

Thanks Nick - cracking review from 'Motorauthority' which includes the best yet video/audio coverage...turn up your speakers. Smiley

The links to the other 3 reviews wouldn't open for me - just puts up a web access form shown below. Must need a membership I guess..? Smiley

--

"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

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Nov 21, 2010 7:31:24 PM

nick1: Senior; Loc: austria; Posts: 668, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 23, 2004; Reply to: John H

Re: GTS specs and some questions..

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/Search-Results/First-drives/Porsche-911-Carrera-GTS-2010-CAR-review/

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Nov 21, 2010 7:32:40 PM

nick1: Senior; Loc: austria; Posts: 668, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 23, 2004; Reply to: nick1

Re: GTS specs and some questions..

http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/FirstDrives/Porsche-911-3.8-Carrera-GTS/254247/

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Nov 21, 2010 7:33:40 PM

nick1: Senior; Loc: austria; Posts: 668, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 23, 2004; Reply to: nick1

Re: GTS specs and some questions..

http://www.autobild.de/artikel/porsche-911-carrera-gts-fahrbericht-1294763.html

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Nov 21, 2010 7:35:18 PM

nick1: Senior; Loc: austria; Posts: 668, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 23, 2004; Reply to: nick1

Re: GTS specs and some questions..

Sorry John, no idea how this happend. Above you will find The correct Links. Yes i Know this footage, Sounds just teriffic!

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