Crown

Autobild Sportscar edition tested 7 sportscars on the Ring. Driver was Sascha Bert. They used full 20,8km kurs.

Ring results first with few remarks from me...

1. Ferrari 458 Italia 7.32,92min 

It is the SAME test example that was used for Sport Auto Supertest(7.38min).  So, there is NO explanation why Bert was SO MUCH faster then Hvs. Tires were also the same. Any way 458 is currently the best sportscar on the market-IMHO.

2. Lexus LFA 7.38,85min

Almost the same time like HvS. Totally overpriced sportscar IMO.

3. Lamborghini Gallardo LP570-4 SL 7.40,76min

Again, not an impressive result by Gallardo. It was on Corsas so... Days of sequential manuals are over.

4. Porsche 997.2 Turbo S 7.41,23min

Equiped with Aerokit. Very fast indeed. BUT, according to Bert alos demanding for extracting the best Ring time.

5. Nissan GT-R 7,43,65min

Good old GT-R. Best buy for the money. Heavy but fast.

6. Mercedes SLS AMG 7,44,42min

Unlike Sport Auto example(bucket seats, lighter wheels and Ceramics) AB Sportcars used example with electric memo seats and standard brakes. So, it was around 25-30kg heavier then Sport Auto example(7.40min in HvS hands).

7. Wiesmann GT MF5 7.52,39min

Simply said too expensive for performance.

In the end all sporscars perfoormed within normal margin. Just. 458 was little bit too fast IMHO.

 Thanks Kreso . We interesting. But I wonder why the 458 was so much faster. It is not as if Bert was faster with every car compared to Hvs. 

Better track conditions ? 

Did they do the comparison  with all cars on the same day ?

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

Gnil:

Did they do the comparison  with all cars on the same day ?

They spent 4 days at the Ring for testting.

KresoF1:

1. Ferrari 458 Italia 7.32,92min 

It is the SAME test example that was used for Sport Auto Supertest(7.38min).  So, there is NO explanation why Bert was SO MUCH faster then Hvs. Tires were also the same. Any way 458 is currently the best sportscar on the market-IMHO.

Kreso,

As far as I remember from the spec of the Car (I'm too lazyto check the number plates), very same 458 is tested by EVO Magazine @ Bedford Race track and with road tires, it was faster than Scuderia by 1,4 sec

www.youtube.com/watch

I do also think that, 458 is THE BEST CAR on the Market right now

ONUR

11 M3 Coupe AW

09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

All these variations between magazines and or drivers make the comparisons not very credible and concrete IMO.

Moreover, different people tend to pick the comparison that suits their fancy.

An explanation for the faster time of the same 458 compared to some time ago could be that the engine of the car has loosened up now and the output has been optimized, as it covers more kms.

"Form follows function"

I can say only this-458 is simple too fast in Berts hands. Period.

458 is IMHO the best sportscar currently on the market. BUT... Only that fast if you order extensive set of expensive CF options. In standard trim 458 is 1600kg car that is not nearly that fast on the Ring. In August friend of mine from Germany drove 458(in standard trim with only optional sports wheels), 997.2 Turbo S and SLS AMG on the Ring. He is also German race driver. End result? SLS AMG(same specs as Sport Auto Supertest example) was the fastest one with 7.39,5min... Both 458 and Turbo S were almost 1.5s slower... So, is he better driver then HvS? Probably(I know who he is-just, I can not post it here). Better drive then Bert? Maybe...

IMHO all AB Sportscar edition results are OK. 458 excluded. Why? Answer could be very long and complicated.

For me SLS AMG is the car that I must have. Why? Order test drive, a long one and then make a verdict about it. Bert wrote about it:"Wohl kaum ein anderer Supersportler is so einfach und sicher schnell zu fahren wie dieser SLS."  This is also my personal opinion, despite the fact that SLS DCT is not as fast as PDK of 458 DCT.

Exactly my point. Too many variables and parameters to draw absolute conclusions from the various magazine lap times. Too many deviations that render these measurements almost useless for practical purposes. As to the general conclusions, you don't need a magazine test to know that a ME Ferrari with almost 600PS, DCT,sitting a few centimeters from the ground will be very fast in a controlled environment and a AWD Turbo with 500+PS almost there and both probably faster than the Mercedes.

However, these seconds and fractions thereof are only relevant to magazines. In the end the buyer chooses what he likes, depending on feel, practicality (including ease of driving in all conditions), taste, brand loyalty and of course his budget.

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"Form follows function"

KresoF1:

 

In August friend of mine from Germany drove 458(in standard trim with only optional sports wheels), 997.2 Turbo S and SLS AMG on the Ring. He is also German race driver. End result? SLS AMG(same specs as Sport Auto Supertest example) was the fastest one with 7.39,5min... Both 458 and Turbo S were almost 1.5s slower... So, is he better driver then HvS? Probably(I know who he is-just, I can not post it here). Better drive then Bert? Maybe...

 
In all honesty, a performance difference of 1.5 seconds difference would be negligible to every amateur sportscar driver. I agree on your conclusions though, if one considers the balanced character the SLS´ performance is quite impressive.

While the times posted by your friend seem very coherent, how can Sascha Berth be that much quicker in the 458 both in absolute terms and compared to the other cars? Any finetuning done by Ferrari? 

Kreso, I am trying to understand your comment on Corsas.  Are you saying they are faster than other tyres?  I tracked with a brand new set (well my GT3 was pretty much brand new with 200km) and I thought it was rubbish compared with the type of R-spec tyres I normally use in competition such as Bridgestone RE-55S and Dunlop DZ03G.  Not sure if you guys in Europe use these tyres.

Also, what tyres did the Turbo S come with?  Need to know before I decide whether to take on my friend on the track when he picks up his Turbo S this week.

Ferdie:

KresoF1:

 

In August friend of mine from Germany drove 458(in standard trim with only optional sports wheels), 997.2 Turbo S and SLS AMG on the Ring. He is also German race driver. End result? SLS AMG(same specs as Sport Auto Supertest example) was the fastest one with 7.39,5min... Both 458 and Turbo S were almost 1.5s slower... So, is he better driver then HvS? Probably(I know who he is-just, I can not post it here). Better drive then Bert? Maybe...

 
In all honesty, a performance difference of 1.5 seconds difference would be negligible to every amateur sportscar driver. I agree on your conclusions though, if one considers the balanced character the SLS´ performance is quite impressive.

While the times posted by your friend seem very coherent, how can Sascha Berth be that much quicker in the 458 both in absolute terms and compared to the other cars? Any finetuning done by Ferrari? 

Ferdie, buy a latest issue of AB Sportscar and read article in native German. It is a pretty good read.

Why is Bert SO fast in 458 Honestly, I do not have a clue... I heard one rumor but, source is not reliable enough to post it here.

Just one interesting thing-458 gearbox ratios... Its gearbox is very short overall-much shorter then on SLS or Turbo S. For example-second gear corner in SLS or Turbo S is in over 90% of situations on the track  third gear corner in 458.

Finetuning by Ferrari? Apart from fuel(same situation as on Sport Auto Supertest)? No.

WAY:

Also, what tyres did the Turbo S come with?  Need to know before I decide whether to take on my friend on the track when he picks up his Turbo S this week.

Turbo S was on standard Bridgestone RE050 N1. SLS was on Conti SP5. Basically most cars were on street tires.

KresoF1:

 

For me SLS AMG is the car that I must have. Why? Order test drive, a long one and then make a verdict about it.

Very True!! The car blew my mind when i drove it! AMG did an amazing job with that car
 

 Thanks, Kreso... 

GT:
Kreso, so no more 997.2TTS for you, you prefer the SLS package? Also do you still maintain that the MP12c will be better/faster around the NOS than 458 and GT2RS? There is tiff competition these days!

997.2 Turbo PDK or Turbo S is great sportscar. Usable almost as everyday car as well. Just, IMHO SLS AMG is little bit better sportscar for me. Point here is for me. Big NA engine without DFI is huge benefite as well.

Currently there is NO better buy then 997.2 Turbo S or SLS AMG.

GT2 RS? NOT for me.

MP4-12C? It will be very, very fast... Faster then 458? We will see. BUT, I would not buy 458, MP4-12C or GT2 RS any way. Why? My personal limit for sportscar is 200K €(German price).

KresoF1:

 Big NA engine without DFI is huge benefite as well.

DFI? Why you consider it a drawback?

Also didn't you find the SLS long bonnet very cumbersome for placement on winding and not very wide roads?

"Form follows function"

reginos:

KresoF1:

 Big NA engine without DFI is huge benefite as well.

DFI? Why you consider it a drawback?

Also didn't you find the SLS long bonnet very cumbersome for placement on winding and not very wide roads?

Apparently you did not heard about longetivity of the DFI engines. Audi had tons of problems with high reving DFI in RS4 B7. There is a big chance for carbon build up in DFI engines(specially high reving ones).

What engine will last longer-the one in SLS AMG or the one in 997.2 Turbo S? I already know the answer.

Long bonnet on SLS? It is a matter of personal taste and adoptation period. After only 30mins I felt totally at home with SLS AMG.  I simply could not belive how good the car is. Mercedes/AMG did an amazing job with it. I never belived that I would buy Mercedes. But, that time had come...

KresoF1:

I

For me SLS AMG is the car that I must have. 

 If I had to choose between the 3 now, I would also go for the SLS 

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

KresoF1:

reginos:

KresoF1:

 Big NA engine without DFI is huge benefite as well.

DFI? Why you consider it a drawback?

Also didn't you find the SLS long bonnet very cumbersome for placement on winding and not very wide roads?

Apparently you did not heard about longetivity of the DFI engines. Audi had tons of problems with high reving DFI in RS4 B7. There is a big chance for carbon build up in DFI engines(specially high reving ones).

What engine will last longer-the one in SLS AMG or the one in 997.2 Turbo S? I already know the answer.

I don't think you will keep any car for so long as to know the answer to this.

 

Long bonnet on SLS? It is a matter of personal taste and adoptation period. After only 30mins I felt totally at home with SLS AMG.  I simply could not belive how good the car is. Mercedes/AMG did an amazing job with it. I never belived that I would buy Mercedes. But, that time had come...

What colour are you getting your SLS?

"Form follows function"

AMG Imola Grey Metallic with Designo Black leather. 5 spoke wheels, DVD changer for Navi, Folding exterior mirrors. AMG Performance suspension. That is it.

KresoF1:

AMG Imola Grey Metallic with Designo Black leather. 5 spoke wheels, DVD changer for Navi, Folding exterior mirrors. AMG Performance suspension. That is it.

I'm thinking about getting it in Black with red leather.

Very good choice the Imola Grey. It shows the lines of the car very well and you avoid the obvious Silver.

Black/Red is also spectacular

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"Form follows function"

reginos:

Very good choice the Imola Grey. It shows the lines of the car very well and you avoid the obvious Silver.

Black/Red is also spectacular

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"Form follows function"

AMG Imola Grey under sun light...

KresoF1:

"Wohl kaum ein anderer Supersportler is so einfach und sicher schnell zu fahren wie dieser SLS." 

I believe that this statement is absoluteley correct after I have watched  a pretty fast guy playing with a SLS on the 'Ring - he even had some fun going sideways with the car at the slower corners. The SLS must be a quite playful toy
 

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public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road  : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black

Kreso,

Thanks for the test report. As for choosing the SLS - I'm in total agreement. Forget a few seconds on the Ring. 

While the Turbo S is impressive, its exhaust note, peculiar handling characteristics which only true experts have any chance of fully exploiting and turbo lag are deal breakers for me.

IMO, the 458's  lackluster styling and superbike exhaust note also exclude it from consideration.

The sound and feel of that 6.2 litre monster and its NA's immediate response will be intoxicating.

Looking forward to your SLS driving report.

997TT Blk/Blk,  BMW K1300GT

KresoF1:

reginos:

Very good choice the Imola Grey. It shows the lines of the car very well and you avoid the obvious Silver.

Black/Red is also spectacular

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"Form follows function"

AMG Imola Grey under sun light...

 

"Form follows function"

KresoF1:

AMG Imola Grey under sun light...

 

This is my favorite color and the wheels for SLS.

Wise decision with the SLS, Kreso. Congrats

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ONUR

11 M3 Coupe AW

09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

While the times posted by your friend seem very coherent, how can Sascha Berth be that much quicker in the 458 both in absolute terms and compared to the other cars? Any finetuning done by Ferrari? 

Hi I'm new about this forum, but I registered to answer to this question.

Obviously 458 has shorter gear ratios in comparison to 911 Turbo S or Mercedes AMG SLS. Its engine revs up to 9100 rpm (instead of 6500 - 7000 rpm of 911 turbo or mercedes).

So no fine tuning by ferrari. 

Many people think Ferrari are always very slow with HVS (Sport auto test driver)at the wheel. If we assule that GTR time is correct (Sport auto 20,600 km time 7,38 min, Autobild full lap 20,832 Km, 7,44 min that means about 7,38 at 20,600km), how we can technically affirm a GTR is fast as a 458 Italia as Sport auto test have showed ?

This is a bit hard to explain.

Cheer

Hello luque,

welcome to the forum. I do hope that you will visit frequently and not solely on this topic. As you were quoting my comment, let me clarify a bit. I was referring to the performance difference of Sascha Bert in comparison to Kreso´s friend who obviously knows how to drive these cars as well. Without debating the end result, I´d be curious to find out why the 458 posts tremendeous times under certain conditions. This has been the case before, while it posted the expected times in other ones.

Car manufacturers have an interest in providing the best product for a test, so it shouldn´t come as a surprise that they take it seriously. That´s why I take any magazine test as an indicator, not as the definite answer.

Hi Ferdie,

I read rennteam forum from few year, I decided to register to join discussions. Just to present me, I'm italian and I work in important worldwide automotive supplier. So I'm in the field.

Press car are normally well prepared. This does not mean modified. Are just prepared in better configuration possible (es lighter version possible) and checked and adjusted for better perfomance (es. tyres angle set-up cos tyre consumption is rarely monitored in magazine test).

So If you are doubting Ferrari press care are not stock car ... well I can not give any answer but it's a bit strong assumption.

Which are thecnical reasons why a Mercedes AMG SLS could  be faster than a 458 on a track ?

I agree with you that magazine test should be not used as the only truth. But we have to check technical specifications, weight distribuition, suspensions set-up etc. etc and IMHO a 458 Italia have all the possibility to be faster on track his rivals as Mercedes SLS AMG or Porsche 911 Turbo S.

Cheer