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Sep 29, 2010 4:26:38 AM
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Fuchwheeler
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Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine...
I think it is a natural product evolution to keep pace with competitors (Boxster vs Z4 for example), rather than filling-the-gap.
it is a bottomless pit afterall.... if you get my drift. 
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Sep 29, 2010 10:59:30 AM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine...
Four cilinder engines have low torque and smaller power band, they are less smooth, and in order to get any real power out of them you need to use turbocharging which in turns makes you loose the fast reving, progresive power delivery, and instant throttle of the atmospheric engine to achieve the same HP you can already achieve with the current atmospheric F-6.
The power figure is only a small part of the picture, a 4 Cil engine with the same power will however have all the drawbacks in terms of confort, sportive character and performance... the only advantages are less CO2 and cheaper to build... two things I don't care about.
A 4 Cil on a today's 911 would be a disgrace, it would make it the laughing stock, and rightly so. Do you see any of its rivals with a 4C engine? on the contrary, most will have 8 Cil engines. Its not even going to be a Flat engine since they will likely borrow it from VW/Audi, a four pot VAG engine on a 911 is something I can't even imagine (and many die hard fans would turn its back on the 911 after something that, and the damage in image would be irreparable), it makes no sense, on a Boxster maybe, but on a 911 I give 0 credit to this rumor.
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Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine...
996AD:
what's the problem whith 4C engine if had the same or more hp? 911 was 4cy and porsche won races
No, 911 was always 6C even the original 2lt. They produced a 911 body with 4C but it was called 912 and it didn't carry much respect.
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"Form follows function"
Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine...
didn't know that much about engines..
I ran into a friend the other day, he drives R8 spyder v10.. the sound was unbelievable after he lift i drove back in my 9974s and i felt like riding in a beatle.. 
too bad . i dreally love porsches but big engine sound really tempting
Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine...
996AD:
didn't know that much about engines..
I ran into a friend the other day, he drives R8 spyder v10.. the sound was unbelievable after he lift i drove back in my 9974s and i felt like riding in a beatle..
in a gt3 you'll have ll the sound you want.
i think the sound of the carrera is just right. timid for daily use and lovely when you let it rip. i find the pse too loud when one is pushing it.
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Sep 29, 2010 12:03:49 PM
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Pentium
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Reply to:
Carlos from Spain
Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine...
Because of 911 rear shape the 4 cyl engine needs to be a boxer engine. Hello Subaru 
Subaru and Mitsubishi has no problem squeezing 300 bhp out of a two liter 4 cyl engine (2,5l recently in subaru).
So yes, I see it coming. A 300bhp+ 4 cyl entry level Carrera "Blue Motion" 
My problem is with the size and weight of 991!!! One thing that you guys tend to ignore!
Did Porsche made the 991 bigger? Which combined with a lot more electronic nanies will result in more weight. OR they use more aluminium and it's bigger but keeps the same weight.
OR Porsche kept the size and designed a better package, both in interior size and handling (push the engine in front, increase wheelbase, etc) - if that's the case we might see a smaller trunk and a wider car... Also by smart engineer repacking you may control the weight: at least keep it the same.
As you see I believe they at least try to keep the weight the same. Which means the "normal" Porsche increase in bhp CarreraS mk1 to mk 2 (355bhp to 385bhp) will be enough to produce a better car.
Because make no mistake here. It WILL BE a better car. They can't afford to mess up this one.
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Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine...
Many remarks regarding the 4C are valid that is assuming you are discussing 4C circa 2000. Auto manufacturers are making great strides in engine performance as a result of mandated fuel efficiency and emissions.
I think we all need to think out of the box especially since Porsche sales are predicated on performance, quality and not necessarily styling. If they do go with 4C you can bet it will not compromise performance.
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Sep 29, 2010 4:05:15 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine...
nberry:
Many remarks regarding the 4C are valid that is assuming you are discussing 4C circa 2000. Auto manufacturers are making great strides in engine performance as a result of mandated fuel efficiency and emissions.
I think we all need to think out of the box especially since Porsche sales are predicated on performance, quality and not necessarily styling. If they do go with 4C you can bet it will not compromise performance.
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Nick, the smaller displacement of the engine (compensated by turbocharging to achieve similar HP) is implied in the idea of a 4 Cil to decrease emisions and fuel consumption (and production costs), otherwise you defeat the purpose of it being a 4cil. If you make a 4Cil engine that is just as large as the 6Cil that it replaces (so that it matches it torque, power delivery, smoothness, etc), its going to be the same only less efficient because in larger engines, you need more cilinders to optimise its efficiency, reliability, smoothness, and performance. That is why for a 2000cc TDi the four pot is ideal but for a 5 litter Rolls you need a 12 Cil.
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Sep 29, 2010 6:17:09 PM
- Atzporsche
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Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine...
Why don't they just drop all V8s in their Panamera and Cayenne and replace that by a single V10 supercar. If the 911 get's 4C it will be terrible. And it is jst not necessary, even for CO2 reasons....
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indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine.. I happen to like both :)
Sep 29, 2010 7:32:54 PM
- intouch1
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Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine...
if they cancel the flat 6, they might as well cancel the 911 range altogether. it is part of it's heritage.
they could have also moved the engine further up front of the rear axle. that will not happen either.
the 911 will remain what it is as long as it is selling...a rear engined flat 6.
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Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.
Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine...
intouch1:
if they cancel the flat 6, they might as well cancel the 911 range altogether. it is part of it's heritage.
I don't think they will cancel the flat 6, if there will be a 4 cylinder, it will be something like an additional entry offer.
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Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine...
Definitely if there will be a 4C it will be launched months after the flat 6 models are introduced and well accepted by the market, so as not to downgrade the image of the new model.
Does anyone have any info about a flat 8 possibility?
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"Form follows function"
Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine...
They will not cancel the flat 6. They will just add an entry option flat4.
A flat 8? Emissions... Productions cost... With the current economic and social climate? No way. At least that's my bet. Perhaps a 4.0l flat6...
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Sep 29, 2010 8:47:02 PM
- J.Seven
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Reply to:
Carlos from Spain
Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine...
Carlos from Spain:
A 4 Cil on a today's 911 would be a disgrace, it would make it the laughing stock, and rightly so. Do you see any of its rivals with a 4C engine? on the contrary, most will have 8 Cil engines. Its not even going to be a Flat engine since they will likely borrow it from VW/Audi, a four pot VAG engine on a 911 is something I can't even imagine (and many die hard fans would turn its back on the 911 after something that, and the damage in image would be irreparable), it makes no sense, on a Boxster maybe, but on a 911 I give 0 credit to this rumor.
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Coudn´t agree more, and if they make it, it would be a terrible dyeing move for Porsche.
J.Seven
Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine...
This just came from Lotus
Elan
V6 petrol
4 litre
7 speed dct gearbox
450hp. !
7800 rpm max
0-60 3.5secs
Top speed 310kmh
Co2 199!
Weight 1295kgs
Seats 2 +2-option
Elise
V4 petrol
2 litre
6 speed dct gearbox
320hp. !
7800 rpm max
0-60 4.3secs
Top speed 270kmh
Co2 150
Weight 1095kgs
Seats 2
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There is no try. Just do.
Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine...
I don't know. I took the info from the Lotus thread. But I know Lotus tied up the business connection with Toyota so.. inline 4 probably. And yes, for sure, the engines are either turbo or supercharged. My bet is on turbo...
The V8 is most probably based on the one used by the Lexus cars.
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There is no try. Just do.
Sep 30, 2010 10:10:02 AM
- Ferdie
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Reply to:
Carlos from Spain
Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine...
Carlos from Spain:
Four cilinder engines have low torque and smaller power band, they are less smooth, and in order to get any real power out of them you need to use turbocharging which in turns makes you loose the fast reving, progresive power delivery, and instant throttle of the atmospheric engine to achieve the same HP you can already achieve with the current atmospheric F-6.
The power figure is only a small part of the picture, a 4 Cil engine with the same power will however have all the drawbacks in terms of confort, sportive character and performance... the only advantages are less CO2 and cheaper to build... two things I don't care about.
To give some clarifying comments, only the entry-level Carrera is said to receive the 4 cylinder engine with around 350 to 360 hp. As on the 912 a few decades ago customers, for somewhat different reasons, will have the choice whether they are looking for the characteristics of an light and efficient small engine or the prestigeous, performant bigger variants. Knowing Porsche, there will still be more than enough variants to choose from, even with 6 cylinders. 
Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine...
CaymanS has now, what... 325hp? So a 350hp flat4 entry level 911 it's ok... Not great but ok... And you get rear seats, 911 iconic shape and the latest tech updates...
I think people choose a Cayman over a 911 mainly because of the price difference... Few people really understand the mid-engine vs rear-engine difference...
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There is no try. Just do.
Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine...
Pentium:
CaymanS has now, what... 325hp? So a 350hp flat4 entry level 911 it's ok... Not great but ok... And you get rear seats, 911 iconic shape and the latest tech updates...
I think people choose a Cayman over a 911 mainly because of the price difference... Few people really understand the mid-engine vs rear-engine difference...
Rather drive a flat 6 Boxster S than a 4 cylinder 911. I don't care about back seats and what's left of the 911 icon if you put a 4cylinder in the back?
Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine...
I am pretty sure Porsche will keep things under control like they did it before.
Another way to have lower emissions will be a 2.4 flat six with a small turbo... I don't know.... But I am 100% sure that they will introduce a low emission version of all their cars: 911, Boxster, Cayman...
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There is no try. Just do.
Sep 30, 2010 1:38:22 PM
- Porsche-Jeck
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Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine...
993Targa:
Next S should get around340 HP (current 320). That's very close to the 350-360hp in the entry level 911?
I'm sure Carrera (base model) and BoxsterS will be not only closer in HP, but also closer in pricing 
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Sep 30, 2010 2:01:10 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine...
Porsche has always been very carefull of not overlapping their models, hence the limitation in power of the Boxster/Cayman, inspite of the demand for a more powerfull Cayman/Boxster version. A 911 with a 4 pot engine against a CaymanS with a F6 and similar power (and pricetag) would be a recepy for disaster, the 911-4cil would always be compared to the Cayans/BoxsterS and will be ridiculed, buyers of this car would be called wanabees, the press would have a field day with thiscar, the Porsche fans would have a fit, and maybe hurt other 911 variant sales due to the bad image... is all of this worth it to Porsche just for the reason of fitting a slightly more fuel efficient and lower emission engine on their iconic 911 model? is it worth it when they have a lower entry model (Boxster/Cayman) were they could fit this engine that they didn't have years before, and not when the 912 came into production? and wasn't the reason of the DFI engine to decrease emission and fuel consumption to meet future EU/US regulations?
There has been a rumor of a four pot on the Boxster since quite a while now, that maybe, and maybe the roprter got things messed up as is many times the case with rumors...
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