Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: German AMS-Nardo 2010 high speed test - Page1

Sep 23, 2010 12:53:01 PM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005

German AMS-Nardo 2010 high speed test

Few big suprieses...

0-300km/h and measured top speed.

Bentley Conti SS 41.8s and 326km/h

Ferrari 458 Italia 34.0s and 330km/h

Lambo Gallardo LP570-4 SL XX.Xs and 326km/h(broken diff prevented 0-300km/h test runs)

Mercedes SLS AMG 35.7s and 323km/h( Smiley Smiley , BTW-same test example that was used for Sport Auto Supertest. I am ordering one...)

Porsche 997.2 GT2RS 31.3s and 330km/h(top speed is el. limited)

Nardo Handling track(2.8km):

Bentley 1.18,8min

458 1.12,9min

SLS 1.13,9min

997.2 GT2RS 1.11,5min

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Sep 23, 2010 1:01:48 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: German AMS-Nardo 2010 high speed test

This SLS test car is quite quick indeed Smiley

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Sep 23, 2010 1:03:58 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: German AMS-Nardo 2010 high speed test

A case of Porsche and the Others

--

"Form follows function"

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Sep 23, 2010 1:07:38 PM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: reginos

Re: German AMS-Nardo 2010 high speed test

I do not think so.

GT2 RS results are not so impressive. Specially 10.4s for 0-200km/h... In normal life 997.2 Turbo S is faster, specially on the autobahn in 120km/h-220km/h.

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Sep 23, 2010 1:11:08 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: German AMS-Nardo 2010 high speed test

I judge by the comparative figures above

Could you scan the whole table please?

--

"Form follows function"

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Sep 23, 2010 1:27:38 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59580, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: German AMS-Nardo 2010 high speed test

KresoF1:

I do not think so.

GT2 RS results are not so impressive. Specially 10.4s for 0-200km/h... In normal life 997.2 Turbo S is faster, specially on the autobahn in 120km/h-220km/h.

This is what I claimed a couple of weeks ago but apparently not many people believed me. Smiley The 997 GT2 RS is still the much better track car but as a daily driver, the 997 Turbo S is a real winner here. Smiley

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

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Sep 23, 2010 1:29:02 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: German AMS-Nardo 2010 high speed test

KresoF1:

I do not think so.

GT2 RS results are not so impressive. Specially 10.4s for 0-200km/h... In normal life 997.2 Turbo S is faster, specially on the autobahn in 120km/h-220km/h.

Kreso, this is just an outcome of the test conditions in Nardo. In the recent SportAuto 0-300 test the Porsche was a bit quicker, as you know (0-200 below 10s, 0-300 below 29s) Smiley The GT2RS is the fastest car on the market AB and track performane. For sure, if it came with PDK 0-300 would be another 2-3s quicker. But this will be done by the 991GT2 Smiley

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Sep 23, 2010 1:33:36 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: German AMS-Nardo 2010 high speed test

RC:

KresoF1:

I do not think so.

GT2 RS results are not so impressive. Specially 10.4s for 0-200km/h... In normal life 997.2 Turbo S is faster, specially on the autobahn in 120km/h-220km/h.

This is what I claimed a couple of weeks ago but apparently not many people believed me. The 997 GT2 RS is still the much better track car but as a daily driver, the 997 Turbo S is a real winner here.

Let me place a bet here Smiley We will do a test next spring (we will have a turbo S and a GT2RS then to compare on longer distances). I expect that the GT2RS gains about 75-100m between 200kph and 300kph (i.e. about 5-7s). On the track the difference will be gigantic. I did a test drive in the most recent turbo recently. The handling (grip of front axle and softness of the suspension) is so far away from the GT2 (current version). If driven hard turbo S and GT2RS are in very different classes Smiley

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Sep 23, 2010 1:37:21 PM

acrobat: Co-Pilot; Loc: Europe , Hungary; Posts: 250, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 15, 2008; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: German AMS-Nardo 2010 high speed test

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Sep 23, 2010 1:42:39 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: acrobat

Re: German AMS-Nardo 2010 high speed test

Thanks for the scan.

--

"Form follows function"

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Sep 23, 2010 1:58:32 PM

acrobat: Co-Pilot; Loc: Europe , Hungary; Posts: 250, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 15, 2008; Reply to: reginos

Re: German AMS-Nardo 2010 high speed test

You're welcome! :)

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Sep 23, 2010 6:05:53 PM

vantagesc: Pilot; Loc: U.S. , United States; Posts: 486, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 26, 2010; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: German AMS-Nardo 2010 high speed test

MKSGR:

RC:

KresoF1:

I do not think so.

GT2 RS results are not so impressive. Specially 10.4s for 0-200km/h... In normal life 997.2 Turbo S is faster, specially on the autobahn in 120km/h-220km/h.

This is what I claimed a couple of weeks ago but apparently not many people believed me. The 997 GT2 RS is still the much better track car but as a daily driver, the 997 Turbo S is a real winner here.

Let me place a bet here We will do a test next spring (we will have a turbo S and a GT2RS then to compare on longer distances). I expect that the GT2RS gains about 75-100m between 200kph and 300kph (i.e. about 5-7s). On the track the difference will be gigantic. I did a test drive in the most recent turbo recently. The handling (grip of front axle and softness of the suspension) is so far away from the GT2 (current version). If driven hard turbo S and GT2RS are in very different classes

For the sake of argument, even if the GT2 RS is slower as RC contends, I'm not sure people buy the GT2 RS to go fast on the autobahn. It is about handling, driver involvement, and cornering. Plus, in the United States, those kind of speeds are largely irrelevant, even for those who go to the race track.

Then again, I would take a std GT3 over a Turbo S. :D

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Sep 23, 2010 6:35:17 PM

Atzporsche: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Vancouver , Canada; Posts: 9118, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 7, 2005; Reply to: vantagesc

Re: German AMS-Nardo 2010 high speed test

I think it is massively impressive that the GT2 RS beats the 458 in everything given the tech it has. Also the SLS is doing REALLY well when you think of what you get...

--

indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine.. I happen to like both :)

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Sep 23, 2010 6:57:38 PM

REALZEUS: Expert; Loc: UK and Greece , United Kingdom; Posts: 1611, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 24, 2008; Reply to: Atzporsche

Re: German AMS-Nardo 2010 high speed test

Atzporsche:

I think it is massively impressive that the GT2 RS beats the 458 in everything given the tech it has. Also the SLS is doing REALLY well when you think of what you get...

With the amount of power, the low weight and the slick tyres it has, its anything but a surprise! This is a GTO competitor after all. The 458 takes care of the Turbo S, as it should. Smiley

--
FERRARI RULES!!!

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Sep 23, 2010 10:06:48 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12680, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: REALZEUS

Re: German AMS-Nardo 2010 high speed test

REALZEUS:
The 458 takes care of the Turbo S, as it should.

And loses BTW. Smiley

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

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Sep 23, 2010 10:40:06 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59580, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: vantagesc

Re: German AMS-Nardo 2010 high speed test

vantagesc:

For the sake of argument, even if the GT2 RS is slower as RC contends, I'm not sure people buy the GT2 RS to go fast on the autobahn. It is about handling, driver involvement, and cornering. Plus, in the United States, those kind of speeds are largely irrelevant, even for those who go to the race track.

Yes and no, it really depends on the buyer. I also know a couple of people who bought a GT2 in the past and were very surprised that a less powerful GT3 could actually keep up or even overtake them on the track.

As a daily driver, I find the Turbo S to be the better (and more forgiving) car. For the track, there is no doubt about it, the GT2 RS is worlds ahead of the Turbo S. I doubt however that even half of the GT2 RS owners can actually use the potential of this car. The GT2 RS is more for advanced drivers, while the GT3 (RS) is the car you would want to drive as a beginner or an amateur driver with less professional driving skills.

The 997 Turbo is and never was a track car, even if it can be pretty fast on the track in the right hands.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

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Sep 23, 2010 11:15:30 PM

vantagesc: Pilot; Loc: U.S. , United States; Posts: 486, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 26, 2010; Reply to: RC

Re: German AMS-Nardo 2010 high speed test

Thanks RC. I guess I just don't see why anyone would buy a GT2 RS (or even GT3 RS) for straight line speed. Likely this person will not find the compromises such cars present (in order to go around turns quickly) acceptable. Though sounds like some people just want to have the fastest 911, regardless.

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Sep 24, 2010 6:11:09 AM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: German AMS-Nardo 2010 high speed test

RC:

I also know a couple of people who bought a GT2 in the past and were very surprised that a less powerful GT3 could actually keep up or even overtake them on the track.

Smiley Smiley Smiley

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Sep 24, 2010 1:23:44 PM

REALZEUS: Expert; Loc: UK and Greece , United Kingdom; Posts: 1611, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 24, 2008; Reply to: Rossi

Re: German AMS-Nardo 2010 high speed test

Rossi:

REALZEUS:
The 458 takes care of the Turbo S, as it should.

And loses BTW.

Er, NO! 0-200 km/h in 9.69s for the 458 and in 10.29s for the Turbo S. Difference above that speed is vast in favour of the Ferrari! Also, the 458 is nearly 2s quicker than the Turbo S round the Vairano test track. Read the Quattroruote and AMS tests . Smiley

--
FERRARI RULES!!!

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Sep 24, 2010 1:31:00 PM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: REALZEUS

Re: German AMS-Nardo 2010 high speed test

Hmm... Just for your info-Rossi owns both 458 and Turbo S. He KNOWS what he is talking about... Real life autobahn drive(120km/h-220km/h).

BTW, regarding Nardo 2010 AMS test... GT2 RS was without Navi, AC and with older smaller exterior mirrors...

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Sep 24, 2010 1:36:46 PM

REALZEUS: Expert; Loc: UK and Greece , United Kingdom; Posts: 1611, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 24, 2008; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: German AMS-Nardo 2010 high speed test

I own both a M1911A1 and a Walther 9mm... I wouldn't know the muzzle velocity of either if I didn't have the documentation. Personal ownership means nothing at all to me. Recorded runs are the only real test.

There is a HUGE difference between "feeling quicker" and "being quicker".

--
FERRARI RULES!!!

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Sep 24, 2010 1:51:26 PM

BiTurbo: Rennteam Master; Loc: X , United States; Posts: 3251, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2006; Reply to: REALZEUS

Re: German AMS-Nardo 2010 high speed test

--

Porsche 997 GT2 & Porsche Cayenne Turbo 8-Spd

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Sep 24, 2010 2:11:39 PM

REALZEUS: Expert; Loc: UK and Greece , United Kingdom; Posts: 1611, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 24, 2008; Reply to: BiTurbo

Re: German AMS-Nardo 2010 high speed test

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/testbericht/handling-wettkampf-sportwagen-elite-im-handling-vergleich-2744037.html (read the captions)

Both AMS and Quattroruote concur that the 458 is faster. (9.7 vs 10.3 for the 0-200 km/h dash). Also, Evo clocked a nearly 2 second 0-160mph difference in favour of the 458!

PS: Please spare us with that joke of a magazine that Autocar is. Their so called proving ground is an abandoned WW2 CONCRETE runway! 2WD cars have a huge disadvantage on that slippery rubbish they use!

--
FERRARI RULES!!!

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Sep 24, 2010 2:12:22 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12680, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: REALZEUS

Re: German AMS-Nardo 2010 high speed test

REALZEUS:

Rossi:

REALZEUS:
The 458 takes care of the Turbo S, as it should.

And loses BTW.

Er, NO! 0-200 km/h in 9.69s for the 458 and in 10.29s for the Turbo S. Difference above that speed is vast in favour of the Ferrari! Also, the 458 is nearly 2s quicker than the Turbo S round the Vairano test track. Read the Quattroruote and AMS tests .

This 9.69 number for 0-200 for the Italia is Italian bullshit. Smiley

The 458 is a quick car, its engine produces approximately the power stated by Ferrari, but in real life conditions the Italia is beaten by the Turbo S in every aspect, except for drama maybe. The Turbo is also quicker to 200kph, above that speed the 458 may gain some ground, but in the end I assume it's a draw from 0-300.

Concerning your track test numbers I couldn't care less, both cars are fat pigs that were not designed for racing. The difference here is that Porsche admits that the Turbo S weighs close to 1.600 kg and it actually does - in serial trim. Ferrari proclaims a ridiculously low weight number, which can't be achieved in real world conditions. In fact a standard 458 weighs about the same as a Turbo S, close to 1.600 kg. Even if you add all those dramatically expensive carbon parts, together with forged wheels and racing seats, the 458 will still be in the 1.500 kg range. So if you really plan to track your car, get a GT2(3)(RS), wait for a Scuderia version of the 458 or - still better - buy something like a Caterham, Radical etc. Smiley

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

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Sep 24, 2010 2:14:15 PM

REALZEUS: Expert; Loc: UK and Greece , United Kingdom; Posts: 1611, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 24, 2008; Reply to: Rossi

Re: German AMS-Nardo 2010 high speed test

Rossi, please read my above comments and link. Even AMS states 9.7s for the 458!

PS: You go to Thumbnails and then read the caption of every pic where the performance data is stated for every car.

--
FERRARI RULES!!!

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Sep 24, 2010 2:18:54 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12680, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: REALZEUS

Re: German AMS-Nardo 2010 high speed test

REALZEUS:

Rossi, please red my above comments and link. Even AMS states 9.7s for the 458!

The 9.7 number stated only once in AMS is from the very same Quattroroute test! Smiley

So we are talking about only one test here, in science for example the best and the worst number are eliminated from the very beginning. Smiley

In the regular AMS test the 0-200 for the Italia was 10.4. Smiley

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

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Sep 24, 2010 2:37:06 PM

REALZEUS: Expert; Loc: UK and Greece , United Kingdom; Posts: 1611, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 24, 2008; Reply to: Rossi

Re: German AMS-Nardo 2010 high speed test

Okay then, how about EVO's results for the 458? (in mph)

0-30 1.6
0-60 3.2
0-100 6.8
0-130 11.0
0-160 17.5

1/4 mile - 11.2 at 128.8mph

100-0 4.0sec 342ft

Total weight - 1546kg

Front - 42% - 649kg

Rear - 58% - 897kg

Bedford Aerodrome West Circuit;

458 - 1.20.3
Murcielago LP670-4 SV - 1.21.3
430 Scud - 1.21.7
Gallardo LP560-4 - 1.22.5
Carrera GT - 1.23.3
GTR - 1.23.6

and the 0-160mph for the Turbo S? 19.3!!! Here's the scan: http://img191.imageshack.us/i/evo1l.jpg/

--
FERRARI RULES!!!

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Sep 24, 2010 3:53:18 PM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8234, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: REALZEUS

Re: German AMS-Nardo 2010 high speed test

REALZEUS:

Personal ownership means nothing at all to me. Recorded runs are the only real test.

You are kidding, right...? Smiley

So, if I may ask, what is your interest in participating here? We all read the same tests, if it weren´t for the first-hand experiences what reason would one have?

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Sep 24, 2010 4:07:29 PM

REALZEUS: Expert; Loc: UK and Greece , United Kingdom; Posts: 1611, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 24, 2008; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: German AMS-Nardo 2010 high speed test

The exchange of personal opinions cannot substitute the objective tests that are conducted by professionals and measured by precision instruments. Take it this way: Would you trust my personal opinion on the F430, or that of a full road and track test? I am only human, I cannot calculate milliseconds and km/h differentials... This is regarding performance only.

As far as feeling is concerned, I value the input of drivers. A V-Box will never tell you how exciting a car is; it will only tell you how quick it is. A driver will tell you how the car feels though! That's why I am here mate. Smiley

--
FERRARI RULES!!!

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Sep 24, 2010 4:15:47 PM

BiTurbo: Rennteam Master; Loc: X , United States; Posts: 3251, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2006; Reply to: REALZEUS

Re: German AMS-Nardo 2010 high speed test

I may be a big fan of the F40 which I consider the best Ferrari ever made, but a 458 isn't a 9sec car in the 0 - 200kph test, sorry dude, but it won't happen in anyones prodcution car nor you can find another test, good luck getting over this fact Smiley

--

Porsche 997 GT2 & Porsche Cayenne Turbo 8-Spd

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