Crown

I keep hearing the rumor that VW will axe the Panamera in 2-3 years.  I know this has been discussed before here, and I personally doubt VW would dismantle a success story (at a least a success this year), but I wonder if you folks have heard any more information.  Will Panamera be around in three or so years?

 That makes abosultely no sense  the panamera has cost them an arm and a leg in development costs, it fits well into the VAG lineup, it seems like a successfull model, and its very important for Porsche's balance sheet. If anything I would think they will take advantage of the platform and come up with other variants, like a coupe version.

+1

Plus, the Panamera interior look is influencing the interior look of the Cayenne and the future 991. If PAG wanted to axe, why copy it in other models?
 

RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

Wonderbar:

I keep hearing the rumor that VW will axe the Panamera in 2-3 years.  I know this has been discussed before here, and I personally doubt VW would dismantle a success story (at a least a success this year), but I wonder if you folks have heard any more information.  Will Panamera be around in three or so years?

Yes, I heard this rumor too but I actually heard that this rumor has started when VW questioned the development cost and basis for the Panamera. As far as I heard, the next generation Panamera will not use a next development stage of the current basis but the current Audi A8 basis, like Bentley too and possible other VW brand models.

So VW will probably axe the current platform the Panamera is based on but not the entire model line per se. Wouldn't make much sense.

Of course you never can be 100% sure, especially since Piech made a comment to somebody very close to Porsche that he wants to go back to the Porsche "roots", whatever this means. 

I have high hopes for the 991 right now... 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

easy_rider911:

+1

Plus, the Panamera interior look is influencing the interior look of the Cayenne and the future 991. If PAG wanted to axe, why copy it in other models?
 

The interior of the Cayenne and 911 needed an overhaul, it is actually more of a co-incidence that the Panamera got the new interior first. 

If VW considers the Panamera not to be profitable in Porsche's future, they would axe it in a second because the Panamera isn't really part of the Porsche tradition like the 911 for example and even the Cayenne. The Cayenne is a synonym for a sporty SUV, it will stay as long as it produces some money.

I'm more curious about the Cayman future because I heard some pretty interesting rumors, even if I don't believe them. Let's see if and how Porsche/VW start off with their new entry level Porsche. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

RC:

I'm more curious about the Cayman future because I heard some pretty interesting rumors, even if I don't believe them. Let's see if and how Porsche/VW start off with their new entry level Porsche. 

If they're rumours, surely you can share them? 

GR:

RC:

I'm more curious about the Cayman future because I heard some pretty interesting rumors, even if I don't believe them. Let's see if and how Porsche/VW start off with their new entry level Porsche. 

If they're rumours, surely you can share them? 

The Cayman rumor is one I can't share because I heard it from a single source only and I can't be sure if it has been "planted" for obvious reasons or if it actually has some truth behind it. If I hear it from at least another source too, I will share it with you. Sorry.

I can say only one thing: Porsche is going to have some interesting surprises for us, I'm not sure that the Cayman one is the most pleasant one, if true.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

 Cayman the new entry level Porsche with a 4 cylinder engine? 

Wonderbar:

I keep hearing the rumor that VW will axe the Panamera in 2-3 years.  I know this has been discussed before here, and I personally doubt VW would dismantle a success story (at a least a success this year), but I wonder if you folks have heard any more information.  Will Panamera be around in three or so years?

Please read this press release and judge for yourself if you can give any credence to these rumours

http://www.porsche.com/uk/aboutporsche/pressreleases/pag/?pool=international-de&id=2010-09-10

I suppose these rumours are spread by jealous competitors and their sales people along the lines of:

"Buy this 7 series/CLS etc, a model that will be around forever, the Panamera is going to be discontinued soon because VW don't like it".

--

"Form follows function"

First, I don't trust these Porsche press releases when it comes to sales numbers. I know how dealers are almost "forced" to put cars on the street, not only at Porsche but other brands too. I have eyes, I live in Germany: even in Stuttgart, the home of Porsche, I haven't seen a SINGLE driving Panamera on the road. I was two days in Stuttgart. On the Autobahn to Rust and back to Munich, no Panamera either. In my home city, pretty large, there is one single Panamera S driving around, I recognize the license plate. My dealer also isn't very happy about how Panamera sales are going, never got a 11-13% rebate offer on a Porsche in my life...the Panamera is the first.

Bottom line is: The Panamera may sell in the US or in Asia but in Europe, I highly doubt it.

Jealous competitors ? You must be kidding: in Germany, I doubt that anybody can beat the BMW 7 series regarding performance, quality for the money and lease offers. Practically 90% of the wealthier people I know drive a BMW 7 series over here.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

RC:

First, I don't trust these Porsche press releases when it comes to sales numbers. I know how dealers are almost "forced" to put cars on the street, not only at Porsche but other brands too. I have eyes, I live in Germany: even in Stuttgart, the home of Porsche, I haven't seen a SINGLE driving Panamera on the road. I was two days in Stuttgart. On the Autobahn to Rust and back to Munich, no Panamera either. In my home city, pretty large, there is one single Panamera S driving around, I recognize the license plate. My dealer also isn't very happy about how Panamera sales are going, never got a 11-13% rebate offer on a Porsche in my life...the Panamera is the first.

Bottom line is: The Panamera may sell in the US or in Asia but in Europe, I highly doubt it.

Jealous competitors ? You must be kidding: in Germany, I doubt that anybody can beat the BMW 7 series regarding performance, quality for the money and lease offers. Practically 90% of the wealthier people I know drive a BMW 7 series over here.

2.530 cars in Germany where millions of cars are on the road everyday is a drop in the ocean from the point of view of visibility. The same with the 206 cars in Munich. That's why you don't see them but still it is a lot of cars for Porsche.

As regards the premium class competitors mainly BMW and Mercedes, the 22.518 Panamera sold worldwide are some thousand less from there own due to the obvious conquest sales, so it is logical that they don't like it. Therefore, the possibility of rival sales people spreading this funny rumour is very plausible, especially at a time when dealerships struggle to sell due to the economic downturn.

"Form follows function"

 Chritian,

you better believe the numbers. The Panamera is actually selling very good, ask your dealer again and you will get 6% maximum discount.

AM
www.aldo-yachting.de

Porsche exceeded the target of 20 000 Panameras in the first year in spite of economic odds and rather negative opinions on design and size .  Cayenne story will repeat with Panamera and BMW 7 will loose more and more potential buyers , much more then MB S class.

am currently in berlin. quite a few panamera's around.

they are also selling very well in egypt, which is a very low volume market for porsche. however, with the cayenne and panamera these markets literally went throught the roof for porsche.

intouch1:

am currently in berlin. quite a few panamera's around.

In Berlin 108 cars sold, so you must be in the right places

"Form follows function"

Dubai 285 

ALDO:

 Chritian,

you better believe the numbers. The Panamera is actually selling very good, ask your dealer again and you will get 6% maximum discount.

Dealer offered me 11% (without even asking) three months ago, hinted that he might go up to 13% depending on deal (options, lease, cash, etc.).

Right now, I wouldn't buy any Porsche without a 10% rebate/discount.

Btw: when I inquired about a Panamera lease a couple of months ago, my lease company (not Porsche Financial) offered me for a 997 Turbo S in practically the same value as the Panamera a lease rate of almost 1000 (!) EUR less than for the Panamera Turbo, no down payment. Apparently they don't trust the residual/resale value of the Panamera after three years.

6% on a Panamera Turbo at a german dealer is a rip-off. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

Misha011:

Porsche exceeded the target of 20 000 Panameras in the first year in spite of economic odds and rather negative opinions on design and size .  Cayenne story will repeat with Panamera and BMW 7 will loose more and more potential buyers , much more then MB S class.

I get the feeling that some of you are Porsche dealers ?  

There is a difference between producing 20000 Panamera and actually selling 20000 Panamera to customers.

Of course you can see lots of Panamera in Dubai, I saw a couple of Panamera during my 12 days stay in Miami this spring. These are different markets, never saw a Rolls Royce in Bavaria (but lots of Bentleys) but I saw tons of Rolls Royce in Miami.

There is a huge difference between published numbers and the reality regarding selling actual cars to customers and/or how you sell them (rebates, special lease offers, etc.).

For the current economic situation worldwide, the Panamera could be considered a success but maybe it also has to do with the fact that the new Cayenne wasn't available yet.

What do I know ?!  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

intouch1:

am currently in berlin. quite a few panamera's around.

they are also selling very well in egypt, which is a very low volume market for porsche. however, with the cayenne and panamera these markets literally went throught the roof for porsche.

You are aware that Berlin is the german capital and three times the size of Munich ?  Also don't forget how many foreign business people live and work in Berlin, I also think that some cars have a "PZ" license plate (Berlin Porsche Zentrum).

Berlin isn't much of a good example for Panamera sales, not even Munich is (and I barely saw one there over the past few months).

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

 I don't know much about Porsche sales numbers. 

But yesterday I saw three Panamera in Munich (not in the Maximilianstrasse). In the showroom of the PZ Munich you can't see any new Panamera (two used cars) and only two new Cayennes (both Hybrid) but about a dozen 911 (90% black). 

Don't know if this is an indicator.

As RC is saying I agree.  What the numbers show 20k Panamera is not the number of cars that individuals bought.  These numbers are the numbers that dealers have purchased from Porsche AG, not necessarily 20k Panameras being driven out in the streets.

I even recall that my dealer in Houston was pissed at Porsche because for every 911order,  they had to buy so many Caymans and Cayennes and their lots were filled with the Caymans and the Cayennes.  And I can bet you this is the case with the Panamera too.  In Denver (where I live now) the closest dealer to me has so many Panamera that they don’t have enough room to display them all.

--
Happy Driving

 Dealer has bought some Panamera but not more then 10% of all produced cars. These car are sold as used and the same amount are bought again and so on ...

I live in a small city (140.000) and despite mine I see every week at least 2-3 other Panameras. I doubt that a Panamera buyer will buy a Cayenne. This overlapping buyer are not the majority.  Panameras started with good sales numbers after the Cayenne was released. The bad numbers where at the beginning of the year.

AM
www.aldo-yachting.de

 And dont forget the Porsche own workers cars. Out of the 2500 in Germany at least 10-15% will be within there! They get it for very attractive company lease rates!

@ALDO - are those PF number plates or worker cars you see every week?

Anyway - speaking for myself, I'm still thinking about getting a Panamera. Would be the perfect fit as family Porsche. Seeing how often I used the Carrera this year and that it doesnt offer enough space for family or even for a Golf bag, the Panamera would be the right car do drive Porsche and enjoy Family and Hobbies!

Lars997:

 And dont forget the Porsche own workers cars. Out of the 2500 in Germany at least 10-15% will be within there! They get it for very attractive company lease rates!

@ALDO - are those PF number plates or worker cars you see every week?

Anyway - speaking for myself, I'm still thinking about getting a Panamera. Would be the perfect fit as family Porsche. Seeing how often I used the Carrera this year and that it doesnt offer enough space for family or even for a Golf bag, the Panamera would be the right car do drive Porsche and enjoy Family and Hobbies!

 NO "S-GO, ..." or "PF-PZ" plates - normal plates

AM
www.aldo-yachting.de

I have even seen a Panamera in Nelspruit, South Africa!!

ALDO:

 Dealer has bought some Panamera but not more then 10% of all produced cars. These car are sold as used and the same amount are bought again and so on ...

I live in a small city (140.000) and despite mine I see every week at least 2-3 other Panameras. I doubt that a Panamera buyer will buy a Cayenne. This overlapping buyer are not the majority.  Panameras started with good sales numbers after the Cayenne was released. The bad numbers where at the beginning of the year.

 

Adnan...may I ask you how you got your car ? Wasn't it a very very attractive special lease offer from Porsche ?  

As to why there are more 911 in the showroom than Panamera: it is very simple, the 911 sells better. If the dealer puts two 170000 EUR Panamera Turbo into the showroom and can't move them for 3-6 months, this could be a disaster for him. The 911 is a different story, easier to move, easier to "exchange" with other dealers if necessary, etc.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

You can't lie with figures, unfortunately.

22.518 cars produced, that's a fact. Even if you discount for demo-cars, stocks etc it's a lot of new Porsches on the roads and most important conquest sales from BMW and Mercedes.

Now whether a number of these cars has been sold with a higher than normal discount, it's something that could be applicable to some markets. Nevertheless the rate of Gross Profit on Porsche cars is amongst the highest in the industry so there could be room for maneuver in the current financial climate.

The 20.000 units target has been successfully met in Year 1. Let's see what happens in Year 2.

--

"Form follows function"