03.09.2010 23:50:04
- Freak997Turbo
- Newbie
- Loc: CA , Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika
- Beiträge: 37, Gallery
- Registriert: 28.04.2007
03.09.2010 23:50:04
04.09.2010 17:21:14
This is a prime example to all potential purchasers of tuners wares......beware what you read on the internet
Even 6speed which "allows" a ridulous 3% slope had to turn this run down....
Some how and for reasons only the owner knows this guy managed to find a 5% slope to do his 0-300kph run down
I think it was RC who has said many times, really one can only trust reputable magazine numbers since they really try and normalise test conditions, but even those are sometimes optimistic when unscrupulous manufacturers give them slightly more powerful "standard" cars to test....
It is a minefield out there.....
2009 997 GT2 659PS/827NM DIN
04.09.2010 18:53:05
Toby can't u just shut ur mouth for a sec??
On the ran that u r talking about it ran 6.5sec
We made another ran and it ran 6.6sec.
Why u not tell us about the white 997 gt2 w/RS tuning stg3 modded VTG's who got yanked by stage2 997tt and SPI GT-R
The poor customer follow Mr-Tobby recommendation here is what he got
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oweuZDW_Uls
18.09.2010 01:26:23
Freak997Turbo:
Toby can't u just shut ur mouth for a sec??
On the ran that u r talking about it ran 6.5sec
We made another ran and it ran 6.6sec.
Why u not tell us about the white 997 gt2 w/RS tuning stg3 modded VTG's who got yanked by stage2 997tt and SPI GT-R
The poor customer follow Mr-Tobby recommendation here is what he got
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oweuZDW_Uls
Thanks for sharing. So the video shows a RS Tuning GT2 being passed by a Turbo? Any explanation? Has the GT2 been data-logged? I am having more doubt on these pre-packaged tunes (as opposed to one that is "custom"), even one from as competent a tuner as RS Tuning.
It appears there have been some data logging of tuned cars from tuners that IMO are competent, and some of the data are all over the place with respect to timing and AFR, for example. Could this GT2 be another example of how a pre-packaged tune may work on some cars and not others? Simply due to car to car variation?
I am well aware that any car leaves the factory with what is essentially a pre-packaged tune; which makes the issue all the more interesting.
--
Regards,
Can
997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )
18.09.2010 17:18:29
acrobat:
From the latest AutoBild Sportscars:
TechArt 911 Turbo PDK (620 hp)
2 persons on board, full tank of fuel
- GPS-Vmax. 335 km/h
- 0-100 km/h in 2,9 s
- 0-200 km/h in 9,4 s
- 0-300 km/h in 25,4 s
- 200-300 km/h in 16,0 s
They should have done several tests in a row in order to check whether the engine explodes after 4, 5 or 6 runs... Honestly, the test car had more hp than claimed (in combination with the new PDK and the new enigne block...) and those Techart cars are not of the best quality I would never consider buying such a compromised car
MKSGR:
acrobat:
From the latest AutoBild Sportscars:
TechArt 911 Turbo PDK (620 hp)
2 persons on board, full tank of fuel
- GPS-Vmax. 335 km/h
- 0-100 km/h in 2,9 s
- 0-200 km/h in 9,4 s
- 0-300 km/h in 25,4 s
- 200-300 km/h in 16,0 s
They should have done several tests in a row in order to check whether the engine explodes after 4, 5 or 6 runs... Honestly, the test car had more hp than claimed (in combination with the new PDK and the new enigne block...) and those Techart cars are not of the best quality I would never consider buying such a compromised car
Hmm, I heard Techart does the best job amongst all Porsche tuners out there. Their products are said to be best quality and their reliability seems to be on par with OEM. Obviously they test their products several 10.000 km, before they are offered to customers and they refuse offering higher power outputs which would be possible but not reliable enough.
So who is right in the end?
The secret of life is to admire without desiring.
acrobat:Techart Turbo = better aerodynamics, faster gearchanges and shorter gear ratios.
GT2 RS=lighter
Dario:
acrobat:
Techart Turbo = better aerodynamics, faster gearchanges and shorter gear ratios.
GT2 RS=lighter
Hm not to sure As follow things happend, test was done to v max Top Speed techart 335, zr1 geiger 338 techart was slightly faster up to 300 km/h than zr1 geiger but up to 335 km/h techart Lost significant Time because of his 7 th gear witch is very long if you ask me techart is running more than 620 hp as this car is even faster than techarts gt2 with 700hp up to 300kmh
Yes, but PDK shifts up to 7th gear over 310 km/h, so for the 0-300 km/h acceleration it only uses its first 6 ratios. And those are shorter than the GT2 RS's.
Dario:
Porsche gt2 rs 620 hp mutch lighter 28 sec up to 300 km/h Very strange any one some ideas concerning my post above and the engine 3.6 vs 3.8 Liter ( techart Statement)
One has to keep in mind that the ultra-fast gear changes on pdk cars do bring an advantage - at high speeds in particular. Unfortunately, I don't have any GPS data on this topic but I would think that the pdk advantage might add up to 1-2 seconds between 0 and 300 kph
acrobat:
Techart Turbo = better aerodynamics, faster gearchanges and shorter gear ratios.
GT2 RS=lighter
If you keep in mind that a regular (530hp) turbo S does 0-300 in 36s under ideal conditions (see different post above) the key question is: how likely is it that by adding 90hp you gain 10s...
Rossi:
MKSGR:
acrobat:
From the latest AutoBild Sportscars:
TechArt 911 Turbo PDK (620 hp)
2 persons on board, full tank of fuel
- GPS-Vmax. 335 km/h
- 0-100 km/h in 2,9 s
- 0-200 km/h in 9,4 s
- 0-300 km/h in 25,4 s
- 200-300 km/h in 16,0 s
They should have done several tests in a row in order to check whether the engine explodes after 4, 5 or 6 runs... Honestly, the test car had more hp than claimed (in combination with the new PDK and the new enigne block...) and those Techart cars are not of the best quality I would never consider buying such a compromised car
Hmm, I heard Techart does the best job amongst all Porsche tuners out there. Their products are said to be best quality and their reliability seems to be on par with OEM. Obviously they test their products several 10.000 km, before they are offered to customers and they refuse offering higher power outputs which would be possible but not reliable enough.So who is right in the end?
I can only tell you that I would never ever consider a Techart car for myself
MKSGR:
acrobat:
Techart Turbo = better aerodynamics, faster gearchanges and shorter gear ratios.
GT2 RS=lighter
If you keep in mind that a regular (530hp) turbo S does 0-300 in 36s under ideal conditions (see different post above) the key question is: how likely is it that by adding 90hp you gain 10s...
The Geiger ZR1 (same test) hit 300 kph 8,8 seconds quicker than the stock one tested by AutoBild Sporscars (26,7 vs 35,5 s) - with only 45-more-hp!
So I believe that a Turbo PDK with 620 hp is capable for a low-25-sec time.
acrobat:
The Geiger ZR1 (same test) hit 300 kph 8,8 seconds quicker than the stock one tested by AutoBild Sporscars (26,7 vs 35,5 s) - with only 45-more-hp!
So I believe that a Turbo PDK with 620 hp is capable for a low-25-sec time.
concerning the zr1, many owner here in europe think that the car in stock is overrated what hp conerns
They think the car has only around 580 hp.. so the hp gain from Geiger could be in fact more than 45 hp, all most 100hp for real. (If Geiger really hits 690 hp)
The stock time for the zr1 up to 300kmh with 36 sec is slow for over 600hp, so i do think that the zr1 in stock condition is overrated.
cannga:
Thanks for sharing. So the video shows a RS Tuning GT2 being passed by a Turbo? Any explanation? Has the GT2 been data-logged? I am having more doubt on these pre-packaged tunes (as opposed to one that is "custom"), even one from as competent a tuner as RS Tuning.It appears there have been some data logging of tuned cars from tuners that IMO are competent, and some of the data are all over the place with respect to timing and AFR, for example. Could this GT2 be another example of how a pre-packaged tune may work on some cars and not others? Simply due to car to car variation?
I am well aware that any car leaves the factory with what is essentially a pre-packaged tune; which makes the issue all the more interesting.
Hey Can, just saw these replies.....
What you write above is very true. The GT2 in the video above had the Cargraphic 635 kit fitted with a set of CTR intercoolers (like mine). The original plan was for the owner to get the work done at RS Tuning's facility so that they could check everything was OK and even do some optimisation of the program.
The kit was actually installed by a shop in Sweden and I believe there were problems in the installation - I don't know the details (and in truth its non of my business) but it is entirely possible that the GT2 is not running the full 635 power....
Alternatively the 997tt in the video may be tuned to run its VTGs at a much more aggressive loading than for example RS Tuning would set them at, this would indeed give faster acceleration, right up until the Xth time when the VTGs melted and trashed the motor - the ones you never hear about Actually you do, one of my pals who works at an OPC told me about a warranty claim where a "tuned" 997tt.1 melted its VTGs and wrote off teh engine, Porsche will pay ziltch and the owner is not so happy !
Re Techart - IMO FWIW the quality of their stuff (in particular body kits stuff) is factory but the engine tuning is not the best.... That 620 kit on the 997tt.2 is very very very fast tho' isn't it - as Marcus says, how many times can it run that 0-300 in 25s back to back ?
Regarding the Dfi turbo engine, RS is very dismissive of this engine, he says it is just the 3.8 carrera engine with turbos and he reckons it will be replaced soon, probably with a V8 !
2009 997 GT2 659PS/827NM DIN
MKSGR:
acrobat:
Techart Turbo = better aerodynamics, faster gearchanges and shorter gear ratios.
GT2 RS=lighter
If you keep in mind that a regular (530hp) turbo S does 0-300 in 36s under ideal conditions (see different post above) the key question is: how likely is it that by adding 90hp you gain 10s...
Techart representative claimed it had 620hp at the wheels. Engine horsepower is probably in 700hp range. They apparently did 30 000km so far without problems including all the testing. I would stick with Turbo S, fast enough and should do 200 000km without problems.
Will someone please explain this puzzle that is the TechArt PDK car?
1. I know (or think I know LOL) PDK's limit is 800 Nm or so.
2. TechArt PDK has not just fast time, but *stunningly* fast time; indicating something much more than 800 Nm, or 620 hp at play, no?
3. It is a test car; I would think it has been "tested" to its limit plenty of times.
Assuming above 3 conditions are met: the torque for this car is around 800Nm, and if the torque for this car is "merely" 800 Nm, how do you explain the 25 sec time? If you then argue the car must have more than 800 Nm, how do explain the fact that it's still "standing" after these abusive tests?
The numbers don't make sense, but they are there and they don't lie. Does the PDK box defies, or redefines, reasonable expectations of relationship between horsepower and acceleration time?
One thing for sure, I think PDK could be a boring gearbox for some, but I am not racing any PDK Turbo any time soon.
--
Regards,
Can
997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )
mv:
MKSGR:
acrobat:
Techart Turbo = better aerodynamics, faster gearchanges and shorter gear ratios.
GT2 RS=lighter
If you keep in mind that a regular (530hp) turbo S does 0-300 in 36s under ideal conditions (see different post above) the key question is: how likely is it that by adding 90hp you gain 10s...
Techart representative claimed it had 620hp at the wheels. Engine horsepower is probably in 700hp range. They apparently did 30 000km so far without problems including all the testing. I would stick with Turbo S, fast enough and should do 200 000km without problems.
You have two options: either you believe their claim () or.... you might ask them for the warranty / cost of extending their warranty. The latter option will give you much better insight into how reliable this tuning product is
cannga:
Does the PDK box defies, or redefines, reasonable expectations of relationship between horsepower and acceleration time?
Of course it does. As mentioned above I would expect PDK to reduce 0-300 times by 1-2s. Unfortunately, I don't have any GPS data on this topic. Would be interesting to analyse this (using stock 997TT with/without PDK, for example)
20.09.2010 18:48:57
If this had come from a less reputable tuner I would have said they were running the VTGs too hard and the engine is a grenade but Techart are a decent company with impeccable reputation to keep intact whose owners will doubtlessly use all this performance on the autobahn....
I would say that Autobild tests are not THE most consistent, I would prefer to see a Sport Auto Papenburg test for definitive numbers. If it runs the same 25.x s then I guess it has to be in the mid 600s hp level allowing for the PDK and the excellent 997tt aero. As far as the torque limit, it can still be kept under 800NM and have this performance.......Like Marcus says if they give you a decent 50k miles warranty on this then it really is amazing
Personally I like the stick
2009 997 GT2 659PS/827NM DIN
21.09.2010 03:41:54
TB993tt:
cannga:
Thanks for sharing. So the video shows a RS Tuning GT2 being passed by a Turbo? Any explanation? Has the GT2 been data-logged? I am having more doubt on these pre-packaged tunes (as opposed to one that is "custom"), even one from as competent a tuner as RS Tuning.It appears there have been some data logging of tuned cars from tuners that IMO are competent, and some of the data are all over the place with respect to timing and AFR, for example. Could this GT2 be another example of how a pre-packaged tune may work on some cars and not others? Simply due to car to car variation?
I am well aware that any car leaves the factory with what is essentially a pre-packaged tune; which makes the issue all the more interesting.
Hey Can, just saw these replies.....
What you write above is very true. The GT2 in the video above had the Cargraphic 635 kit fitted with a set of CTR intercoolers (like mine). The original plan was for the owner to get the work done at RS Tuning's facility so that they could check everything was OK and even do some optimisation of the program.
The kit was actually installed by a shop in Sweden and I believe there were problems in the installation - I don't know the details (and in truth its non of my business) but it is entirely possible that the GT2 is not running the full 635 power....
Alternatively the 997tt in the video may be tuned to run its VTGs at a much more aggressive loading than for example RS Tuning would set them at, this would indeed give faster acceleration, right up until the Xth time when the VTGs melted and trashed the motor - the ones you never hear about Actually you do, one of my pals who works at an OPC told me about a warranty claim where a "tuned" 997tt.1 melted its VTGs and wrote off teh engine, Porsche will pay ziltch and the owner is not so happy !
Re Techart - IMO FWIW the quality of their stuff (in particular body kits stuff) is factory but the engine tuning is not the best.... That 620 kit on the 997tt.2 is very very very fast tho' isn't it - as Marcus says, how many times can it run that 0-300 in 25s back to back ?
Regarding the Dfi turbo engine, RS is very dismissive of this engine, he says it is just the 3.8 carrera engine with turbos and he reckons it will be replaced soon, probably with a V8 !
there were problems in the installation??? WTF!!!
fuckin lier....Why u dont fly to Sweden and install the vtg's for him LOL!!!
TB993tt:
I would say that Autobild tests are not THE most consistent, I would prefer to see a Sport Auto Papenburg test for definitive numbers. If it runs the same 25.x s then I guess it has to be in the mid 600s hp level allowing for the PDK and the excellent 997tt aero. As far as the torque limit, it can still be kept under 800NM and have this performance.......Like Marcus says if they give you a decent 50k miles warranty on this then it really is amazing
Personally I like the stick
What's the difference between testing a car on an airfield with full tank of fuel and 2 persons on board - and testing a car on Papenburg's straight with full tank of fuel and 2 persons on board? Even the 2D-Telemetry they are using is the same...
acrobat:
TB993tt:
I would say that Autobild tests are not THE most consistent, I would prefer to see a Sport Auto Papenburg test for definitive numbers. If it runs the same 25.x s then I guess it has to be in the mid 600s hp level allowing for the PDK and the excellent 997tt aero. As far as the torque limit, it can still be kept under 800NM and have this performance.......Like Marcus says if they give you a decent 50k miles warranty on this then it really is amazing
Personally I like the stick
What's the difference between testing a car on an airfield with full tank of fuel and 2 persons on board - and testing a car on Papenburg's straight with full tank of fuel and 2 persons on board? Even the 2D-Telemetry they are using is the same...
Test conditions (temperature etc.) can make a substantial difference - thus testing the cars on the same day under the same conditions is important