Crown

Achim,

what would be the primary reason for you to acquire the new car? Periodical exchange after hundrets of laps on your current car, the improvements over the predecessor or are you fed up with the shades of silver and grey?

Thanks so much for your appreciated support, guys

@ Targa Tim: I'm glad to hear that you're in love with your new RS - I wish you that you're "still very very happy" not only after 6 weeks but also after 6 months, 6 years, 60,000 km.....

@ FFaust: completely agree with your analysis re "hindsight"

@ Markus: thanks very much for making the decision a bit "easier"  "the best of the last kind" is exactly what comes to my mind when I think of the 3.8 RS  And yes, the production numbers for the 3.8 RS probably won't be that high - not because the car won't live up to the expectations but due to the financial crisis.....on top of that Porsche Financial offers much worse conditions since January compared to Fall 2009 (funny enough I hear it's the other way round for the Panamera....must be some kind of subsidy coming from the GT-models going to the Panamera customers )

@ d997h: "always a bigger fish" - yes, actually this is what kept me thinking. I certainly have no ego problems being a smaller fish myself, actually I even prefer to take an underdog role and I'm not one of these "always the newest, fastest...." type of guys.

.....@ Easy: and that's exactly what held me back (at least for a while ) - I don't want to get into this "newer, faster, better" spiral. It's a bad disease and I already have enough bad habits  I'm already praying that my love for the natural aspirated GT-models will last forever - no envy when the GT2 RS will smoke me  

The "priceless part of the equation" vs. the bean counter thing - I like that  Thank you very much for your clear words my friend. And now that you mention how we should film some more laps yet another advantage of the RS springs to my mind - the camera is easier to install

--
 

public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road  : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black

Ferdie:

what would be the primary reason for you to acquire the new car? Periodical exchange after hundrets of laps on your current car

Yes, Ferdie - that's the main reason  I certainly could drive the 997.1 GT3 for one or two more seasons without experiencing any probs (the car still feels absolutely bulletproof even after more than 40,000 kms of driving fun ), but a new car is a new car is a new car is a new car.....

The used 997.1 GT3 was my first GT-Porsche and it was more a "test buy" for me to check out whether I can live with the rear engine set-up and whether I could master the machine at least @ 90%.

Meanwhile I'm completely addicted to the GT3 concept (simply amazing....) and as long as my ageing bones allow for some track fun I will stick to exactly this concept  There is no substitute - meanwhile I know that it's not only some empty marketing blabla

public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road  : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black

sooooo, the fun part is answered - everybody tells you to go for it....then, what about insurance ??? Would you get a "decent" quote on the new car ? ... I mean, you change from an used car to a new one, which also means instead of the 100k€+bucket, you asked for a 150k€+ cover...though, I guess, you have figured out all the angles yourself already anyway... 

I certainly will not talk you out of the 3.8 RS. In my opinion it's one of the best efforts Porsche has done. It's a future legend, no doubt about that, and that will reflect in the joy of owning one of those legends (priceless) and it will reflect in its resale value (better price). So that's twice an advantage on the price-front, and you know you can't fault the pleasure/sound/durability/looks-front.

I can't think of ANY reason not to go for this car.

If you can - just do it!!!

Blueflame

d997h:

sooooo, the fun part is answered - everybody tells you to go for it....then, what about insurance ??? Would you get a "decent" quote on the new car ? ... I mean, you change from an used car to a new one, which also means instead of the 100k€+bucket, you asked for a 150k€+ cover...though, I guess, you have figured out all the angles yourself already anyway... 

Of course I did my due diligence before seriously considering to get an RS and astonishingly the difference is only 200€ or so per year (of course I'm an old guy with a clean record, hence the premium is not that bad, but still 2x or 3x what they ask for a TT ). Yes, on the one hand the new car has a much higher value but on the other hand: the more affordable the used cars become over time, the younger and more risky driving the audience becomes  which means more GT-models ending up in the magnetic Eifel armco

public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road  : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black

P-J: As I said before - you have made up your mind already ! So, when do you plan to start your pic gallery on the white / white gold then ??? 

 P-J: I would never talk you out of a GT3RS! That would be sacrilegious!

easy_rider911:

I know you have extracted the maximum possible pleasure on the Nordschleife from your 987S and then from your 997.1 GT3  

Achim you must be still far from reaching the maximum possible pleasure from your GT3  the RS is a great adventure but his older cousin is no slouch as you are best to attest

Simply push for a better deal and then you have no excuses left

Here's all the discouragement I can muster:  "don't do it or you will get to look at this in your garage..."

Not working??

Maybe this will help:  "turn back now before its too late..."

In response to P.J., sorry no can do. I went through the same thought process as you and ultimately decided to place my order on a 2011 due to arrive in early Sept. I also believe it will be the last of its breed with the GT1 motor and is the best iteration of the GT3 with that more visceral analogue feel that Chris Harris mentions in lastest reviews. With all the upcoming regs, the next gen car will likely have different dynamics-not necessarily bad. Still, this version should keep me quite happy for the next few years.

TEE:

Achim you must be still far from reaching the maximum possible pleasure from your GT3  

Hahaha, Thomas - yes, must be 15 sec or so  Seriously, the 997.1 GT3 is a fantastic car, but I already had some minor mods in mind (shorter gears, single mass flywheel, rollcage...) - not for becoming faster (it's always the driver, not the car...) but for a bit rawer drive experience and safety at the same time. Of course the RS has all these goodies by chance  plus PSM of which I heard true miracles in context with the RS - sounds as if even the better half could drive the car @ 99,99999 %  - so I hope that even a less talented and ageing guy like me could look good when pushing the car

@ Dave: thanks a lot for the visual support

@ Nelson: I hope for you that the summer flies by quickly  

--
 

public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road  : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black

Today I was on a track in France ( Bresse ) and I smoked all 3 GT3 996 RS that were there.  The guys had to find lame excuses to justify why I was faster then them ( I had 18'' rims with cup tyres )

This is to say that the 991.2 Carrera S will probably be faster then the 997.2 GT3 RS

This week I was very close to buy a white Gt3 997.2 ( there a good deal for a nearly new car ) , but it's not a clubsport....and I also think that if I go down this road I should do it all the way and get an RS....and then I think about what I wrote at the beginning of my post and then...

You have a good reason to buy it: the Ring is in your back garden

--
 

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

Gnil:

This is to say that the 991.2 Carrera S will probably be faster then the 997.2 GT3 RS

 

 I consider this extremely unlikely 

MKSGR:

Gnil:

This is to say that the 991.2 Carrera S will probably be faster then the 997.2 GT3 RS

 

 

 I consider this extremely unlikely 

 

 

I would agree, unlikely. Although, the next gen GT3 with PDK might well prove to have a speed advantage given Porsche's penchant for improvement. Though as I said, the driving dynamics might well be quite different than the current generation car-regretably.

MKSGR:

Gnil:

This is to say that the 991.2 Carrera S will probably be faster then the 997.2 GT3 RS

 

 

 I consider this extremely unlikely 

 I think Gnil meant this tongue in cheek and just forgot to put a smiley next to the statement. 

Achim, just go for it, live's too short to pass such occasions (provided that the financial side is not an issue). Judging by your post, even your wife is all for it.

Years down the road, you would bite into your on lower back if you don't do it.  You should rather be singing that famous french song "No, je ne regrette rien"...

Matt C
2005 997 C2S / 1988 911 3.2 Conv.

MKSGR:

Gnil:

This is to say that the 991.2 Carrera S will probably be faster then the 997.2 GT3 RS

 

 

 I consider this extremely unlikely 

When the 996 GT3 RS came out, would you have believed that the 997.2 Carrera S would be faster on a twisty small track ?

I admit that this 997.2 RS is a better paquage and will hold a bit longer, but as soon as there will be a GT3 PDK ( next generation ) the 997.2 RS will be behind

--
 

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

Gnil:

I admit that this 997.2 RS is a better paquage and will hold a bit longer, but as soon as there will be a GT3 PDK ( next generation ) the 997.2 RS will be behind

 

 There we can agree: the 991 GT3 with PDK will nearly certainly outperform the 997 GT3 RS Mk2 - when it will be available in about 2-3 years time  My former comment was more related to the regular 991 Carrera S 

Gnil:

MKSGR:

Gnil:

This is to say that the 991.2 Carrera S will probably be faster then the 997.2 GT3 RS

 

 

 I consider this extremely unlikely 

When the 996 GT3 RS came out, would you have believed that the 997.2 Carrera S would be faster on a twisty small track ?

I admit that this 997.2 RS is a better paquage and will hold a bit longer, but as soon as there will be a GT3 PDK ( next generation ) the 997.2 RS will be behind

 

Still, I wouldn't mind being passed by a PDK Porsche whilst I'm enjoying my heel-and-toe downshifts. It's not all about laptimes...

Porker:

 Still, I wouldn't mind being passed by a PDK Porsche whilst I'm enjoying my heel-and-toe downshifts. It's not all about laptimes...

 

Not all about lap time, but the satisfaction of taking over a car that is supposed to be ''better''  or more sporty is very enjoyable. Yesterday there was a guy that came to the track with a completly modified RS92 ( was on a truck ) , he has real slicks on, a race uniform, stickers showing he did some porsche cup races.......  I managed to be faster then him in my Carrera S . What a pleasure  and I could not care less that I had PDK . I was in front of him and he was pissed off, realy pissed of ( he would not believe my car was standard ) that ' s all that counted  and the satisfaction was great !!

--
 

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

No brainer that the 997.2 GT3 RS is just a master piece, the moment I saw the videos of Chris Harris and specially with François Delaclour (wrong spelling for sure), its a master piece....But the 997.1 GT3 probably does the same at a more reasonable price. The only real motivation to buy the new RS is if its in main purpose is track time (obviously, this is Achim's HOBBY ), so I would say its a great idea in moving to the new RS...in your position....and of course if you can afford it....but this is the EASY answer.....

But on the other hand, is it logic to spend lets say about AN EXTRA 50.000€ to move from a 997.1 GT3 to a 997.2GT3 RS, this is a question I cant answer (I wish )....its quite hard to make this decision specially coming from a beast you already have Achim....Anyways, those who have driven the new GT3 RS, must already know if its worth it or not the moment you start driving it and feel its sensations....may be its a good idea, wait another 6 months and buy a second hand mk2 RS....

Anyways, like Easy wrote above, its quite an interesting situation one would love to experiment, at least once in its lifetime !!! , so Achim, either decision should be GREAT......even more if you surprise us this summer !!!! , but this again the easy answer people can say !

Gnil:

Porker:

 Still, I wouldn't mind being passed by a PDK Porsche whilst I'm enjoying my heel-and-toe downshifts. It's not all about laptimes...

 

Not all about lap time, but the satisfaction of taking over a car that is supposed to be ''better''  or more sporty is very enjoyable. Yesterday there was a guy that came to the track with a completly modified RS92 ( was on a truck ) , he has real slicks on, a race uniform, stickers showing he did some porsche cup races.......  I managed to be faster then him in my Carrera S . What a pleasure  and I could not care less that I had PDK . I was in front of him and he was pissed off, realy pissed of ( he would not believe my car was standard ) that ' s all that counted  and the satisfaction was great !!

 

Of course there's a lot of enjoyment to be found in beating a supposed faster car. The 'underdog' feeling makes for a lot of fun on trackdays. I remember a CSL-driver at the 'ring almost losing it because I passed him in my plastic sled .

But such events have a lot more to do with the driver than the car itself, I assume a well driven '92 RS on full slicks should give a stock 997 C2S a run for its money, just as a well driven CSL would've left me behind.

Porker:

Gnil:

Porker:

 Still, I wouldn't mind being passed by a PDK Porsche whilst I'm enjoying my heel-and-toe downshifts. It's not all about laptimes...

 

Not all about lap time, but the satisfaction of taking over a car that is supposed to be ''better''  or more sporty is very enjoyable. Yesterday there was a guy that came to the track with a completly modified RS92 ( was on a truck ) , he has real slicks on, a race uniform, stickers showing he did some porsche cup races.......  I managed to be faster then him in my Carrera S . What a pleasure  and I could not care less that I had PDK . I was in front of him and he was pissed off, realy pissed of ( he would not believe my car was standard ) that ' s all that counted  and the satisfaction was great !!

 

Of course there's a lot of enjoyment to be found in beating a supposed faster car. The 'underdog' feeling makes for a lot of fun on trackdays. I remember a CSL-driver at the 'ring almost losing it because I passed him in my plastic sled .

But such events have a lot more to do with the driver than the car itself, I assume a well driven '92 RS on full slicks should give a stock 997 C2S a run for its money, just as a well driven CSL would've left me behind.

 

In my case it was not the drivers, it was the car who made the difference ( I had 18'' BBS rims with Michelin Cup )  ... and to help you realy grasp the efficiency of PDK , my CAR is faster around artificial tracks then 996 GT3.2  .  An no owner of a 996 GT3.2 is happy when being overtaken by a Carrera S, even if he had great pleasure and satisfaction of changing the gears, because at the end he gets the humiliation to get passed and I am in front with a less sporty car  !!   .... + adding all the comments from the people watching 
 

--
 

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

Gnil:

my CAR is faster around artificial tracks then 996 GT3.2  .   

 

I better stick to the natural tracks then  Seriously: if I recall correctly the 997.2 S PDK on semi slicks achieved the same Sportauto laptime on the NoS as the 996.2 GT3 ? Not sure about the "artificial" HHR laptime ?  And you are a very experienced and good track driver  Do you have any inboard videos from your laps at the Bresse circuit ? Would be great to watch

I can imagine how much you enjoyed to smoke the GT3s - it's always cool to give a "higher" car a run for it's money with a "lower" car  

But Alex has mentioned the right word in this context: "Hobby"  And that includes the emotional factor big time - of course I'm not sure about my emotions once a 992.2 BoxsterS will smoke me in a 3.8 RS

--
 

public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road  : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black

Porsche-Jeck:

Gnil:

But Alex has mentioned the right word in this context: "Hobby"  And that includes the emotional factor big time - of course I'm not sure about my emotions once a 992.2 BoxsterS will smoke me in a 3.8 RS

 
 

 

 

Put it this way : As long as there are ''superior'' cars to take over, I get all the emotions and ''hobby'' I need   When there is no one to take over anymore ... I tend to get pretty bored ....unless I m on a ''natural'' track and I still have the challenge to try to master the perfect line  

How many people did you say over took you last week end ?  In what cars ?  You would certainly enjoy your hobby much less if you had to fight against 992.2 Boxsters

--
 

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

So, are you having one then Achim?

http://www.phrog.co.uk