Crown

I want to explain something about this thread title:

In Spain in our Soloporsche.com community, we are trying to give a solid step against the M96 engine failures. First of all we are compiling several dozens of IMS failures well documented. All of them are soloporsche users. We have opened some threads to get more information. Porsche AG workers had the chance to come into this discussion as anonymus user, to explain us about real percentage and what they really know. (Soloporsche admin are checking the real personality to avoid trolls) Are people suffering hysteria? No they aren't.

We have lot of friends with engine failures and we know that the M96 engine is a complete design error. Engineers, Porsche Motorsport division, Mechanical experts, told us the real thing. Wendelin Wiedeking is the principal responsible. He tried to rise Porsche profits and order to develop a new platform (M96) to susbtitute air cooled family. This engine was developed half time, and half budget as it needed. Porsche was in troubles and Boxster and 996 were two new models to be the angular stone for a new era of benefits. Low cost materials, an IMS that never was to be born (as the new DFI engines), disalingment shaft problems, different expansion coefficient materials, low cost alluminun frame, a shaft that works in a false steel case that is closed in a twin alluminun cases,... Engines derived from GT1 block as GT3, GT3 RS GT2, TT were too expensive to produce. If they would decided to produce a light version of this block to be placed in Carrera models, surely would be the best decision, because we´ll never heard anything about blown engines. Besides it would cause a huge decrease of Porsche accounts due to the high cost of this platform. Porsche AG left this problem run until they changed the M97 engine for the new family without IMS, DFI, etc.

They passed 11 years, so much time keeping the wrong thing. Meanwhile, there are a pile of blown engines in Porsche history, and whats more, there are a pile that are going to fail. I prefer to listen Porsche experts, not urban legends. I'm always talking about this with real arguments. I'm a bit tired to read that they are a very small percentage, and what we have to do, is to enjoy our cars. I've seen several failures with my eyes! What would you think if a Porsche expert engineer tells you that the best thing to prevent the failure, is to reinforce the IMS with a solid kit? (I don't sell anything, I don't have any commercial interest) What can we do if you're out of warranty? Pay for a reman engine or throw the car to the river from a bridge. Porsche should  give us a new engine everytime It happens. We are trying to compile more data and some soloporsche people want to go to the justice court.

Everyone know that It's too difficult to prove that It's a failed design, opposite a Judge, but we are very ungry to read a blown engine everyweek in our small Soloporsche comunity. I enjoy driving my 996, I love it and I want to keep on with it for many years. I reinforced the IMS with a hand made kit, use a racing lubricant, etc In Soloporsche, an expert motor engineer is developing a solution but It won't be ready yet because It's a critical idea and needs several test, but It would be probably the IMS 100% guard.

Nevertheless there were thousand of failures here in Rennlist, Renntech, 6Speedonline, Pistonheads, Rennteam, and so on. We have lots of articles published in Total 911, Excellence, GT Purely Porsche magazines talking about this.

Does anyone know a jugdgment that condemned Porsche AG?

We want to get a good finish, and join efforts to solve this embarrased problem. All your contributions will be welcome. Joaquin

--

 Joaquin, have you consulted a lawyer? If so, he/she probably told you that the likelihood of success in this litigation is almost nil and the cost prohibitive. They probably also told you that your best chance for satisfaction is if enough owners complained to Porsche they would provide some sort of remedy. The day that happens is the day the world will end.

Good luck on your Quixotic  (pun intended) journey.

Thanks

We know that It's almost imposible to prove that we're talking about a bad/wrong/failure design of the internal engine. Porsche AG is a giant against several furious users.

But It's better to give a single shout instead off having our arms folded. Unless we could say that we tried...

How would Soloporsche Admins know that Porsche engineers/mechanics/etc. were posting information ? IP address ? Yes, this would be an indication but on the other hand, Porsche tracks all communication, so they would know about it. We have Porsche employees on our Forum too but most of them registered with their official Porsche email address and they usually don't get involved in any discussions, they just monitor, read and collect information. Just a reminder, I really don't think that those who posted some "internal" information on Soloporsche were legit Porsche employees.

Second: have you tried to contact Porsche directly ? If yes, how ? In my experience, a lot can be achieved on a personal basis but as soon as you threaten them, the support is gone. I tried myself, I had direct and personal contact to the head of the quality management department and once I mentioned the internet and the community, he started looking at his watch.

As to the M96 engine: I had three cars with that engine, two 996 and one Boxster S. None of them had problems but I know that there are issues with the design of that engine. You can't however hope to get a new engine on a car which is 5 years old and has 80000 km. Just an example.

Again: talk to Porsche on an individual basis and let the dealer(s) help you with this. The more fuss you guys create about this, the less likely the chances to find a solution. Just my opinion. Sad, I agree but if you want results, go the right way.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

Count the total numbers of Porsche cars with the water-cooled engine, then consider this number, even if you really managed to find 1000 confirmed failures, for every ONE of those, there are almost 400 happy customer with NO FAILURE in the engines. That means a failure rate of 0.25%. And then consider haow many of those 1000 failed because of improper tuning or careless driving like over-revving? Let's be conservative and say 200, that's only 0.2% natural failure rate. A exponentially small number.

Is that a big enough number for people to even noticed?

You only hear about failures in forums, you will never hear about engines with no problems, that's what skewed your judgment thinking the engine is a failure because you hear/read about 'so many'. It's is not.

I had 2 cars with the M96 before too, 02 C4S, one manual and one auto. Either of them worked flawlessly, I also had a friend who had both generation of boxsters and no problems with either, that means another 4 happy engines.

RC:

How would Soloporsche Admins know that Porsche engineers/mechanics/etc. were posting information ? IP address ? Yes, this would be an indication but on the other hand, Porsche tracks all communication, so they would know about it. We have Porsche employees on our Forum too but most of them registered with their official Porsche email address and they usually don't get involved in any discussions, they just monitor, read and collect information. Just a reminder, I really don't think that those who posted some "internal" information on Soloporsche were legit Porsche employees.

We contacted to them by PM and they accepted to create a new anonymous account to participate in this debate. Anyone wants to get his employee in risk.

A real expert  (good friend of Soloporsche Staff) knows each square inch in Porsche Motorsport Germany. He knows lot of information from true source and told us about several points.

 

Second: have you tried to contact Porsche directly ? If yes, how ? In my experience, a lot can be achieved on a personal basis but as soon as you threaten them, the support is gone. I tried myself, I had direct and personal contact to the head of the quality management department and once I mentioned the internet and the community, he started looking at his watch.

I know it. An important spanish  car magazine which published a letter from me contacted to Porsche and the response from them was that they'd never had any notice about blown engines and internal failures. They always denied the problem. 

We know it, but unless we are trying to organize ourshelves and study how to proceed. It's more confortable having your arms folded. 

 

As to the M96 engine: I had three cars with that engine, two 996 and one Boxster S. None of them had problems but I know that there are issues with the design of that engine. You can't however hope to get a new engine on a car which is 5 years old and has 80000 km. Just an example.

Again: talk to Porsche on an individual basis and let the dealer(s) help you with this. The more fuss you guys create about this, the less likely the chances to find a solution. Just my opinion. Sad, I agree but if you want results, go the right way.

 

Thanks Ron

juankimalo:

I know it. An important spanish  car magazine which published a letter from me contacted to Porsche and the response from them was that they'd never had any notice about blown engines and internal failures. They always denied the problem. 

Years ago Porsche has acknowledged the RMS issue and offered replacement without charging the costs - at least up to a certain age / mileage of the car.

There was even an article in the German carmag Autobild:

http://www.autobild.de/artikel/probleme-bei-porsche_54583.html

Of course the RMS is not the real issue - a lot of watercooled Carreras and Boxsters suffered from it, but finally it's only a seal (maybe annoying if you have to replace it but not a fatal disease..).

However this is only true unless the RMS issue was only the symptome for a crankshaft problem. In these cases it was the kiss of death for the engine  Luckily it seems that the blown engines represent only a very small percentage compared to the RMS failures.

In the Porsche community (users, not employees ) there are quite some self proclaimed "experts" who say it's a design problem.

I'm not a engineer but even if we'd assume that these "experts" are right with the design problem I can't see how any class action against Porsche would be a reasonable way to handle the problem: certainly it would take a lot of time (probably years) and a huge investment (technical expertises etc.) before you'd see a result.  And what could the result be for any car suffering the problem after the warranty expired ? 50% of the new expenses for a replacement engine ? How much is that: <10,000 Euro ? How is that in comparison to the time, money and nervs invested into the case ?

Just my thoughts - I feel sympathy for everyone suffering from a blown engine, but if I'd be a victim of the cheap engine syndrome myself I would go the route recommended by RC

Germans are no experts in dealing with "revolutions"

public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road  : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black

Hi Jeck:

You're rigth! You hit  the nail on.

Let's see... first of all I know that the thread's title sounds a bit funny. It's due to my poor english.

It's important to difference a real expert than a copy/paste forum user. Everyone could do a search, and write a complete post showing his acknowledge about an issue... but we can assured than we have rela info from the proper source.

In Soloporsche and other communities we are aware about the final results in an utopic fight against Porsche. It's a lost match before playing it. We are not blind , It's too difficult, OK, but we don't want to be mute .

What we want is sharing information with everybody who are unconnected to this problem. This is very important. We are throwing the idea for anyone who had suffered the issue and wanted to organize a group of affected, or something similar to protest. Just want to help.

I don't know if there is a courage lawyer affected in Soloporsche, ready to fight. Unless explain soloporsche and other fellows the origin of this problem, why, how, and so on.

Thanks

juankimalo:

Let's see... first of all I know that the thread's title sounds a bit funny. It's due to my poor english.

No problem, juankimalo - your english is fine and you're only trying to help some Porsche buddies which is a good thing  If you send me your email address via PM you'll get some interesting articles from mags like "Excellence" and "911" in return They explain the technical background very well IMHO.
 

--
 

public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road  : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black

Thanks

PM Sent

 In Soloporsche forum we have a star thread in which we ask Porsche employees for information (as you know). We have thousand of visitors. An important person (Porsche Centre owner) told us that in the headquarters of Porsche Iberica (oficial spanish import dealer and distribuitor) they are very worried and concerned about all the true. They had an important internal meeting to manage this problem. Soloporsche forum is very important in the spanish Porsche lovers colective, and they know that we are not going to shut up our mouths.
We know that in a single Porsche Centre in Barcelone they are changing about 40-50 a engines in a whole year, more or less one per week.
People are very angry and don't accept as normal what It shouldn't be. 
The expensive cost of the extended warranty, the helplessness to renove the warranty if your car passes than 10 years-old, the neglect which suffer users who purchased it as a second hand car... imagine those who suffer a failure when we know that It's due to a fail desing.

I'm not sure if soloporschers affected are going to organize a claim group or not, because they have to prove with an expert engineer report the bad design of the internal parts. They have to collect all the invoice bill, etc.
If a courageus lawyer appears in this issue, he will have the chance to be well known. The Porsche expert engineer told us that the figures they have is around 20% of IMS failures.

juankimalo:

Does anyone know a jugdgment that condemned Porsche AG?

Hello Juan,

are you asking about a court case in general or referring to the RMS issue? I do remember a court case in Germany related to a flaw in the exhaust layout on the 964 where, caused by indiscernible damage, could burn the rear bumper and subsequently the whole car.
 

nberry:

 Joaquin, have you consulted a lawyer? If so, he/she probably told you that the likelihood of success in this litigation is almost nil and the cost prohibitive. They probably also told you that your best chance for satisfaction is if enough owners complained to Porsche they would provide some sort of remedy. The day that happens is the day the world will end.

I think Nick is in a bunker with some canned food and a water desalinator.

Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)

Budster:

nberry:

 Joaquin, have you consulted a lawyer? If so, he/she probably told you that the likelihood of success in this litigation is almost nil and the cost prohibitive. They probably also told you that your best chance for satisfaction is if enough owners complained to Porsche they would provide some sort of remedy. The day that happens is the day the world will end.

I think Nick is in a bunker with some canned food and a water desalinator.

These people may be of interest to you

http://www.imsporschesettlement.com/