Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad? - Page1

May 19, 2010 3:53:08 PM

4trac: Expert; Loc: SK , Canada; Posts: 1920, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 6, 2006

GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

Lots of discussion about the GT2 and GT3 lines in the past months, with new models arriving. After driving one a few weeks ago, it left me wondering how the GT3 would feel/drive with PDK?

My own guess is that it is only a matter of time, and that Porsche could now fairly easily develop a "Sport PDK" (especially now that they have found the religion of paddles Smiley ) that would, for example, have a much more sport oriented default mode, or perhaps even default to manual mode as does Ferrari. And my view... is that adding a PDK option could result in an even more amazing GT3-GT2 line, mainly because I think that the feel and enjoyment of any sequential-manual gearbox is enhanced by mating it to exceptional engines.

So - would adding PDK to the GT2 or GT3 lines be good or bad??

--

2010 Audi S5, 2002 M Coupe

Next
Threads

May 19, 2010 4:12:52 PM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: 4trac

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

My comment about this subject:

-PDK can not be mated with Mezger GT1 derivated engines-they are too big sizewise for PDK. That is basically the only reason for lack of PDK in current GT3/GT3 RS and GT2 RS models

-DCT(or PDK) is standard item in: Ferrari 458 Italia, McLaren MP4-12C, Mercedes SLS AMG and 997.2 Turbo S. DCT is the future(and present) gearbox for all high power sportscars.

-DCT is NOT sequential manual a la F1, e-gear or R tronic. Sequential manuals are officially dead IMO.

-will manual live for semi track sportscars a la GT3/GT2 models from Porsche? Chances are slim IMHO.

-"Sport PDK"? Did you drove 997.2 Turbo PDK with SC? Try it in Sport Plus D programm... It is as sporty as possible IMHO.

Next
Threads

May 19, 2010 10:37:45 PM

artur777: Senior; Loc: Europe , Russia; Posts: 774, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 8, 2008; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

KresoF1,

do you mean that best acceleration in 911 turbo PDk is achieved in Sport Plus D mode?

Next
Threads

May 20, 2010 1:11:45 AM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: artur777

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

You can use sport plus in either manual or D (automatic). I believe performance is better in D because you take the human element out of it.

--

Next
Threads

May 20, 2010 6:24:19 AM

intouch1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Red Sea , Egypt; Posts: 5752, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2004; Reply to: nberry

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

good !

--
Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

Next
Threads

May 20, 2010 4:40:59 PM

WAY: Rennteam Master; Loc: Melbourne, Australia; Posts: 3344, Gallery; Registered on: May 11, 2004; Reply to: intouch1

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

I think the answer is good from the perspective of speed. But also for this reason, I want to keep a manual Porsche for the long term, so that when my 2 year old son grows up, he will have a manual Porsche which will not be in existence by then.

Next
Threads

May 20, 2010 4:51:47 PM

trip: Expert; Loc: Bay Area California , United States; Posts: 1691, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 11, 2006; Reply to: WAY

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

WAY:

I think the answer is good from the perspective of speed. But also for this reason, I want to keep a manual Porsche for the long term, so that when my 2 year old son grows up, he will have a manual Porsche which will not be in existence by then.

I like this. To me the GT3 is all about interaction with the car. It is about a challenging/rewarding and involving driving experience. I truly love shifting and the difficulty of perfect heel/toe downshifts is what makes them so enjoyable when done correctly. There is NO other car like the GT3. Smiley

Next
Threads

May 20, 2010 5:07:02 PM

DaveC: Veteran; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 1068, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 16, 2005; Reply to: trip

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

I have no doubt that future GT3/GT2 iterations will have manual transmissions, at least as long as they continue to have internal combustion engines as their primary motive force. In the future Porsche enthusiasts will sing the praises of the 997 the way they do the 993, as their 911 will be all electric w/ a synthetic sound track for an exhaust.

--

Carpe Diem--life is but a crack of light bounded by eternities of darkness (Nabokov)

Next
Threads

May 20, 2010 5:25:27 PM

WAY: Rennteam Master; Loc: Melbourne, Australia; Posts: 3344, Gallery; Registered on: May 11, 2004; Reply to: DaveC

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

DaveC:

I have no doubt that future GT3/GT2 iterations will have manual transmissions, at least as long as they continue to have internal combustion engines as their primary motive force. In the future Porsche enthusiasts will sing the praises of the 997 the way they do the 993, as their 911 will be all electric w/ a synthetic sound track for an exhaust.

I am of the view that manual transmission will be around for maybe one more generation of GT3 and that's it. Look at Ferrari 458! Also, the next gen GT3 is going to be a hybrid, I am almost willing to bet my money on it. So this one right here is going to be your last old school GT3.

Next
Threads

May 20, 2010 5:36:48 PM

Spyderidol: Rennteam Master; Loc: Mozambique; Posts: 5807, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 25, 2007; Reply to: WAY

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

There is still a problem with the weight (amongst others) of the system. (Porsche are working on this but it takes time.)

I think we are still some years away from the hybrid in a road going GT3....but it will eventually come.

Next
Threads

May 20, 2010 5:56:01 PM

intouch1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Red Sea , Egypt; Posts: 5752, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2004; Reply to: Spyderidol

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

manual transmissions are still a big thing with german drivers. so german manufacturers might still offer manuals well into the future.

however, i doubt we will see the sportiest of them with manuals as they need to keep up with the perfoirmance numbers of the competition and for that only double-clutch systems will do.

--
Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

Next
Threads

May 20, 2010 6:10:55 PM

Atzporsche: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Vancouver , Canada; Posts: 9118, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 7, 2005; Reply to: intouch1

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

What about a more track like manual with the short shift stick push kind? I could see that, because it is obviously way sportier, read faster, but still manual in a sense that you have the stick in the center console.

--

indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine.. I happen to like both :)

Next
Threads

May 20, 2010 6:44:51 PM

intouch1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Red Sea , Egypt; Posts: 5752, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2004; Reply to: Atzporsche

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

those are sequential transmissions. double clutch are better, if for the moment still heavier.

--
Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

Next
Threads

May 20, 2010 7:14:53 PM

WAY: Rennteam Master; Loc: Melbourne, Australia; Posts: 3344, Gallery; Registered on: May 11, 2004; Reply to: intouch1

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

I hear Lambo is sticking to sequential manual for the Jota? I wonder why no DSG given that they are the pioneer of these on road cars (the group, not Lambo obviously).

Next
Threads

May 21, 2010 12:22:16 AM

FFaust: Senior; Loc: Toronto'ish , Canada; Posts: 736, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 15, 2009; Reply to: trip

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

trip:

WAY:

I think the answer is good from the perspective of speed. But also for this reason, I want to keep a manual Porsche for the long term, so that when my 2 year old son grows up, he will have a manual Porsche which will not be in existence by then.

I like this. To me the GT3 is all about interaction with the car. It is about a challenging/rewarding and involving driving experience. I truly love shifting and the difficulty of perfect heel/toe downshifts is what makes them so enjoyable when done correctly. There is NO other car like the GT3.

Agree 100% however... the GT3 is a track/race car that is adapted for the road. As a track car, it has to be as fast and efficient as possible. As it turns out, it seems that PDK is THE fast and efficient solution so... isn't it unavoidable then that the GT3 will, at some point, be offered with PDK only? I track but do not race so, for me, it's not about getting the fastest lap time, it's about being one with the car and having as much fun as possible. How can P reconcile this with racers wanting to win races Smiley

--

Slow In, Fast Out

Next
Threads

May 21, 2010 12:48:29 AM

WAY: Rennteam Master; Loc: Melbourne, Australia; Posts: 3344, Gallery; Registered on: May 11, 2004; Reply to: FFaust

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

Really good point there Ffaust. For someone like me who enjoys track days but also enter the occasional time trials, tarmac rallies and various form of races, I'm quite conflicted. In the races, I do want to win, and you always know that the guys with the PDK will have an advantage there. But on track days and on my local mountain roads, I just want to have fun so I prefer manual. I think Porsche will just have to offer both and let the buyer decide.

Next
Threads

May 21, 2010 1:07:00 AM

FFaust: Senior; Loc: Toronto'ish , Canada; Posts: 736, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 15, 2009; Reply to: WAY

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

And to take the argument one step further... If the objective is to go as fast as possible, maybe the solution is to have a Cayman with PDK and extra hp

--

Slow In, Fast Out

Next
Threads

May 21, 2010 3:32:09 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: FFaust

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

You need to distinguish between cars built for speed and cars built for driver involvement. Porsche's want to win. If one is so enamored with manual/driver involvement buy something cheaper like a Lotus or even a Miata.

I have never understood why anyone would shackle their performance when the point of the exercise is performance. It would be like playing soccer wearing tennis shoes on a grass soccer field. Not very effective but I suppose more involved.

--

Next
Threads

May 21, 2010 3:53:13 PM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: nberry

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

I would like to add this:

Is 997.2 Turbo PDK less involving because of PDK? NO. By far IMHO! This car is born to be mated with PDK. PDK is what makes new 997.2 Turbo that special. At least IMHO...

What about GT3/GT2 models with PDK?

PDK would make them faster(both in acceleration and on the track), safer(for not so talented shifter) and more exploitable for wider audience. Again, IMHO...

Next
Threads

May 21, 2010 4:29:09 PM

Turbocharger: Junior; Loc: Doha , Qatar; Posts: 73, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 10, 2007; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

good for 991

Next
Threads

May 21, 2010 4:31:47 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: Turbocharger

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

I don't think Porsche would offer the GT3 and GT2 with manual (only) if there were no technical obstacles to fit PDK.

Manual for these cars is not by choice but out of necessity. Hope Porsche catch up with progress with the next GT models.

--

"Form follows function"

Next
Threads

May 21, 2010 4:39:23 PM

trip: Expert; Loc: Bay Area California , United States; Posts: 1691, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 11, 2006; Reply to: reginos

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

I strongly disagree. Porsche must continue to offer manual transmissions on all sports cars. I have driven PDK, driven the 997 GT2, driven the 997.2 GT3. Obviously my shifts were faster with PDK, obviously the GT2 is faster than the GT3. I don't care, I would take the GT3 (manual) every single time. The car is about fun + excellent engineering and performance. The manual gearbox offers a rewarding challenge while the natuarally aspirated engine offers superior character and sound. Those two factors are great on their own but would mean little to me without the amazing chasis, steering, acceleration, and breaking that form the foundation of the car. Nick you are making a mistake by saying "you need to distinguish between cars built for speed and those for driver involvement." That is simply not true. Cars like the GT3, Scuderia, CGT, are built to push the envelopes of both emphases. It really is a difference of opinion but you guys cannot accept that some people prefer to shift their own gears

Next
Threads

May 21, 2010 4:49:41 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: trip

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

trip:

I strongly disagree. Porsche must continue to offer manual transmissions on all sports cars.

Yes, offer a choice of transmissions is the correct way.

To limit the choice to manual only is wrong because not only they might be losing sales but for image purposes a high tech Porsche GT car should have a 21 century transmission as an option, at least.

--

"Form follows function"

Next
Threads

May 21, 2010 5:07:41 PM

trip: Expert; Loc: Bay Area California , United States; Posts: 1691, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 11, 2006; Reply to: reginos

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

reginos:

trip:

I strongly disagree. Porsche must continue to offer manual transmissions on all sports cars.

Yes, offer a choice of transmissions is the correct way.

To limit the choice to manual only is wrong because not only they might be losing sales but for image purposes a high tech Porsche GT car should have a 21 century transmission as an option, at least.

I agree completely, I'll take my 991 GT2 RS in PDK and my 991 GT3 RS in good ol' fashion manual Smiley

Next
Threads

May 21, 2010 5:49:52 PM

FFaust: Senior; Loc: Toronto'ish , Canada; Posts: 736, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 15, 2009; Reply to: trip

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

^ Like he said

--

Slow In, Fast Out

Next
Threads

May 21, 2010 10:09:55 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: trip

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

Ferrari knows as much as performance as any car manufacturer. They have decided against offering manual. There are economic considerations for the car manufacturers. If over 90% of the buyers are opting for PDK why would Porsche make manual available? It would be costly to do so.

If manual was not available would Porsche lose business? NO! Off hand I cannot think of any other high performance sport car manufacturer that offers manual. It really is old technology which hinders the performance of the car.

--

Next
Threads

Jun 10, 2010 4:07:19 PM

ruf_turbo: Newbie; Loc: Sarasota, FL , United States; Posts: 5, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 15, 2009; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

KresoF1:

My comment about this subject:

-PDK can not be mated with Mezger GT1 derivated engines-they are too big sizewise for PDK. That is basically the only reason for lack of PDK in current GT3/GT3 RS and GT2 RS models
I either read this or some engineer said it in a video but I can't find the source now. Do you have a source for this statement? Thanks.

Next
Threads

Jun 10, 2010 4:11:21 PM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: ruf_turbo

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

I got that info from friend of mine who works for P.

...and this info is accurate one.

Next
Threads

Jun 10, 2010 5:25:42 PM

ruf_turbo: Newbie; Loc: Sarasota, FL , United States; Posts: 5, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 15, 2009; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

KresoF1:

I got that info from friend of mine who works for P.

...and this info is accurate one.

Thanks. I found an article in Excellence that confirmed PDK is too long for Mezger engine.

Top
Threads

Board	Subject	Last post	Views	Replies
Porsche	SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)	4/17/24 7:16 AM Gnil	776883	1798
Porsche	Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos)	4/7/24 11:48 AM Boxster Coupe GTS	441595	565
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Cayman GT4 RS (2021)	5/12/23 12:11 PM W8MM	262716	288
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022	3/12/24 8:28 AM DJM48	260863	323
Porsche	The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche	1/30/24 9:18 AM RC	85141	45
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift	3/15/24 1:23 PM CGX car nut	5527	50
Porsche	The moment I've been waiting for...	2/1/24 7:01 PM Pilot	880582	1364
Porsche	992 GT3	7/23/23 7:01 PM Grant	815744	3868
Porsche	Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!	2/10/24 4:43 PM nberry	390864	1526
Porsche	GT4RS	4/21/24 11:50 AM mcdelaug	389899	1454
Others	Tesla 2 the new thread	12/13/23 2:48 PM CGX car nut	372107	2401
Porsche	Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design	7/3/23 12:30 PM Porker	368856	797
Porsche	Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour	4/11/24 12:32 PM Ferdie	289083	668
Porsche	Collected my 997 GTS today	10/19/23 7:06 PM CGX car nut	261229	812
Lambo	Huracán EVO STO	7/30/23 6:59 PM mcdelaug	240087	346
Lotus	Lotus Emira	6/25/23 2:53 PM Enmanuel	230226	101
Others	Corvette C8	10/16/23 3:24 PM Enmanuel	221154	488
Others	Gordon Murray - T.50	11/22/23 10:27 AM mcdelaug	169141	387
Porsche	Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS	6/11/23 5:13 PM CGX car nut	140955	144
BMW M	2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now	12/29/23 9:04 AM RC	117409	303
Motor Sp.	2023 Formula One	12/19/23 5:38 AM Whoopsy	108541	685
Porsche	2022 992 Safari Model	3/7/24 4:22 PM Whoopsy	84109	239
AMG	Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758	2/23/24 10:03 PM blueflame	75038	297
Porsche	992 GT3 RS	3/3/24 7:22 PM Whoopsy	53607	314
Motor Sp.	Porsche 963	3/16/24 9:27 PM Whoopsy	24974	237
Ferrari	Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6)	1/21/24 4:29 PM GT-Boy	21165	103
BMW M	2022 BMW M5 CS	4/8/24 1:43 PM Ferdie	19487	140
AMG	G63 sold out	9/15/23 7:38 PM Nico997	16580	120
AMG	[2022] Mercedes-AMG SL	4/23/24 1:24 PM RC	13681	225
Motor Sp.	24-Hour race Nürburgring 2018	5/25/23 10:42 PM Grant	11244	55

Crown

Forum - Thread

GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

Forum

Boards