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    "N" tires vs non-"N", is there a difference?

    A local shop has non-N Michelin PS2 tires in stock (They have R01, which is Aston Martin or Audi), while N rated tires are on back order and could take 3 weeks. I only need to replace the rears... the tire guy says there is no difference between PS2 tires, as long as the load ratings are not changed.

    Is there some kind of technical difference between manufacturer rated tires? They don't change the compound or tread or anything do they?Smiley


    Re: "N" tires vs non-"N", is there a difference?

    I would rather wait for the N spec tires. The truth is that nobody seems to know about the specific differences. One can only speculate about the (likely) compound differences etc. Thus, if I were you I would wait for the N rated tires Smiley 


    Re: "N" tires vs non-"N", is there a difference?

    Yep, there is a difference: N and non-N rated tires of the same brand/type have a different compound mixture, some even have a different sidewall construction, others a slightly different tread.

    Especially on the 911 I would stick with N rated tires. Under extreme driving conditions, there is sometimes a dramatic difference.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: "N" tires vs non-"N", is there a difference?

    There should be differences in tread design, compound, sidewall stiffness in one or more of those. In the PS2 the tread looks the same but in the older PS the Porsche tread was unique (so called Rib). This misleads people think to think it's all the same in the case of PS2

    Many tyre shops say it's the same Porsche say it's not. Most owners may never understand any difference.

    BTW other manufacturers follow the  same practice. BMW have the star symbol (*) on the sidewalls and Mercedes the MO (Mercedes Original) indication on several models. So it cannot all be irrelevant.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: "N" tires vs non-"N", is there a difference?

    Crap. I'm doing a track day in 2 weeks. I guess I will have to order them from Tire Rack. Thanks for the info.


    Re: "N" tires vs non-"N", is there a difference?

    Tire shops usually say it is the same for three reasons:

    1. they don't have these tires in stock

    2. these tires usually have a slightly higher wholesale price, especially because they aren't ordered in high numbers, lowering the profit

    3. dealers want to make fast money or are just too dumb to know better


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: "N" tires vs non-"N", is there a difference?

    R01 refers to Audi´s performance cars (RS4, RS6, R8). Especially if you are going on a track day I would not mix up those designations as you are more likely to exceed the limit of the car and its components.

    I was told (cannot confirm) that Porsche uses stronger sidewalls on their specific variants due to the extreme weight distribution on the 911.


    Re: "N" tires vs non-"N", is there a difference?

    Found this on Tire Rack:

     

    It is also important to know that while Porsche N-specification tires have been fine tuned to meet the specific performance needs of Porsche vehicles, the tire manufacturers may also build other tires featuring the same name, size and speed rating as the N-specification tires for non-Porsche applications. These tires may not be branded with the Porsche N-specification because they do not share the same internal construction and/or tread compound ingredients as the N-specification tires. Using tires that are not N-specific is not recommended and mixing them with other N-specification tires is not permissible.

     

    So that answers it I suppose. N1 it is.


    Re: "N" tires vs non-"N", is there a difference?

    Finally a tire dealer who tells the truth. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: "N" tires vs non-"N", is there a difference?

    RC:

    Finally a tire dealer who tells the truth. 

    They have a strong incentive at Tire Rack.

    Tire Rack has a USA-wide agreement with PCNA to supply the entire USA Porsche dealer chain with "factory" tires.  It's a separate division within the company and uses a special web site where Porsche dealer service managers can log-in to order tires.


    --

    Mike

    2005 Carrera GT - Signal Yellow + 2008 Tesla Roadster - Thunder Gray +1972 BMW 3.0 CSi - Nachtblau +2009 Bentley Arnage T - Black Saphire


    Re: "N" tires vs non-"N", is there a difference?

    W8MM:
    RC:

    Finally a tire dealer who tells the truth. 

    They have a strong incentive at Tire Rack.

    Tire Rack has a USA-wide agreement with PCNA to supply the entire USA Porsche dealer chain with "factory" tires.  It's a separate division within the company and uses a special web site where Porsche dealer service managers can log-in to order tires.

     


    Then , we all like Tire Rack Smiley


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: "N" tires vs non-"N", is there a difference?

    Ferdie:

    I was told (cannot confirm) that Porsche uses stronger sidewalls on their specific variants due to the extreme weight distribution on the 911.

    This, along with the compound mixture, is what I have been told as well.



    --


    Re: "N" tires vs non-"N", is there a difference?

    RC:

    Especially on the 911 I would stick with N rated tires. Under extreme driving conditions, there is sometimes a dramatic difference.


    Can't be anymore dramatic than just niping to the shops to ''DRIFT'' all the way there and all the way back!

    Smiley Smiley

    Always stick with porsche spec tyres when dealing with such powerful cars.

    Those ps2's are expensive eeekkk!


    --


    Re: "N" tires vs non-"N", is there a difference?

    Carlos from Spain:
    Ferdie:

    I was told (cannot confirm) that Porsche uses stronger sidewalls on their specific variants due to the extreme weight distribution on the 911.

    This, along with the compound mixture, is what I have been told as well.



    Speaking of compound mixture did you hear about dunlop back in the 60's they made an unwearable tyre?

    They fitted them to a london bus drove it around for months with it full of passangers and the tyre didnt wear!

    I'm unsure of the truth of this, but they probably did develop some secret formula for wear resistant tyre?

    And in any case they would never put this tyre into production for economics case.

    Are tyres patented along with the compound mixture!

     


    --

    Re: "N" tires vs non-"N", is there a difference?

    I spoke to UK insurance companies about the N Rating.  They specifically stated, using non rated Porsche tyres would not invalidate your insurance.

    In the UK based Porsche enthusiast circle, the consensus is (perhaps the cynics) that N rated tyres is just another Porsche money making scheme as the comparable non rated Michelin for example (MPS2) is about £100 a tyre cheaper yet the technology is 10 years or so newer!!

    I don't know for sure, but why is it that the R8, fezzas, Veyron and other high powered cars  are okay on non rated rubber?

    I've always had N rated tyres because of warranty issues but I'm not so sure nowadays if there really is a difference.


    --

    http://www.phrog.co.uk


    Re: "N" tires vs non-"N", is there a difference?

    Good info. I looked at my lease agreement, and it actually states in there that when the car is returned it has to have 4 matching "manufacturer approved" tires on it. I assume they mean N rated tires. Frankly, I think the car would be fine on non-N rated tires but I wouldn't want to mix the two ratings on otherwise identical tires.


    Re: "N" tires vs non-"N", is there a difference?

    ResB:

    In the UK based Porsche enthusiast circle, the consensus is (perhaps the cynics) that N rated tyres is just another Porsche money making scheme as the comparable non rated Michelin for example (MPS2) is about £100 a tyre cheaper yet the technology is 10 years or so newer!!

     

    Hi ResB, I have been using the Michelin PS2 for 5 years on my 997S and in Spain in all the places, the N-rated Michelin PS2 and the non-N-rated Michelin PS2 have always been the same price, give or take 10€ or so Smiley


    --


    Re: "N" tires vs non-"N", is there a difference?

    Carlos from Spain:
    ResB:

    In the UK based Porsche enthusiast circle, the consensus is (perhaps the cynics) that N rated tyres is just another Porsche money making scheme as the comparable non rated Michelin for example (MPS2) is about £100 a tyre cheaper yet the technology is 10 years or so newer!!

     

    Hi ResB, I have been using the Michelin PS2 for 5 years on my 997S and in Spain in all the places, the N-rated Michelin PS2 and the non-N-rated Michelin PS2 have always been the same price, give or take 10€ or so Smiley

    Hi Carlos.  I'll double check this end but I'm sure there is a huge difference in the UK.  I too have always had N rated PS2's and do rate them highly.  In fact I'll give them a ResB rating.


    --

    http://www.phrog.co.uk


    Re: "N" tires vs non-"N", is there a difference?

    I opted for Conti Sportcontact2's non N-spec because the N-spec tires were discontinued and I just needed rear tires. At the advice of a very well known Porsche race/restoration and service shop in my area I had them install the tires. Performance seems fine but aesthetically I'm somewhat disappointed. The sidewall is more square to the rim than the N-spec tires that have an acute angle inward from the rim to the tread. In anther 10k I'll need to replace all four and will be sure to go with N-spec when the time comes.

     

     


    --
    2006 997 carrera coupe

    Re: "N" tires vs non-"N", is there a difference?

    I'm a fan of originality. I even insisted on MO tyres on a Mercedes C class 230K, so on a Porsche it's beyond any debate for me.

    I don't think manufacturers like Porsche , BMW, Mercedes and Audi would go into the trouble of  rating tyres just to make a few extra money (if at all), as some tyre dealers allege.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: "N" tires vs non-"N", is there a difference?

    Porsche have worked with michelin to develop the tyres, like they did for the CGT, it would be foolish not to take porsches advice and go with their spec tyres.

    It's all well and good putting a better than factory spec tyres on a car, but in this case your putting on a lesser spec than the factory intended.

    This may not sound like much, but when dealing with such finely tuned engineering, why settle for less, this is of great importance when your dealing with powerful cars, which are rear wheel drive, and  i remember something that mike w8mm wrote, that he nearly crashed his 911 after the rear end came around while going downhill.

    Obviously the N spec is there for a reason, and unless you can lab test and compare both tyres to see the differences, i'd go with the N specs, and even if you had the capability to test them you'd probably find out that there are differences, and both michelin and porsche are right, because they wouldn't bother making the N spec in the first place.

    Just my thoughts on this issue....Smiley


    --

    Re: "N" tires vs non-"N", is there a difference?

    ResB:
    Carlos from Spain:
    ResB:

    In the UK based Porsche enthusiast circle, the consensus is (perhaps the cynics) that N rated tyres is just another Porsche money making scheme as the comparable non rated Michelin for example (MPS2) is about £100 a tyre cheaper yet the technology is 10 years or so newer!!

     

    Hi ResB, I have been using the Michelin PS2 for 5 years on my 997S and in Spain in all the places, the N-rated Michelin PS2 and the non-N-rated Michelin PS2 have always been the same price, give or take 10€ or so Smiley

    Hi Carlos.  I'll double check this end but I'm sure there is a huge difference in the UK.  I too have always had N rated PS2's and do rate them highly.  In fact I'll give them a ResB rating.


     Yeah wouldn't supprise me if some places charge more the N specs,  rip-off britain, garages will charge more just because it's manufacturers recommended tyre, and they will try and screw you for it, but also they think if you can afford a porsche you can afford to pay more.


    --

    Re: "N" tires vs non-"N", is there a difference?

    ResB:

    I spoke to UK insurance companies about the N Rating.  They specifically stated, using non rated Porsche tyres would not invalidate your insurance.

    In the UK based Porsche enthusiast circle, the consensus is (perhaps the cynics) that N rated tyres is just another Porsche money making scheme as the comparable non rated Michelin for example (MPS2) is about £100 a tyre cheaper yet the technology is 10 years or so newer!!

    In Europe, tire brand and type can't be "forced" upon customers. Meaning: even if the manufacturer states a certain tire/brand and N-rating in the car documents, you are free to use whatever tire brand/type you want as long as the speed rating and size is what the manufacturer asks for. This is a very dangerous situation in my opinion but the EU calls this free market. Smiley So it is no wonder that insurances don't care, they can't care because it would be illegal.

    The "money making" scheme story is just dumb but when an urban legend goes out, it sticks for a very long time. I'm sometimes very surprised that Porsche enthusiasts all over the world pay 100000 EUR and more for their car but try to save 50 EUR on tires. Tires and brakes are in my opinion the most important parts of the car, the tires actually connect the car to the ground. What can be more important ?

    In Germany, the price difference between N-rated and "standard" tires is pretty small. Last time I checked it was only 30-50 EUR per tire.

    Btw: since Porsche does not sell these tires, i wonder why people would think that Porsche wants to rip them off with the N-rating ? Smiley Smiley 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: "N" tires vs non-"N", is there a difference?

    ^ It's a question of availability, not price in my case. I can't wait 6 weeks for Michelin to get their s**t together because I need tires now. As it is, I ordered N1s from the US.


    Re: "N" tires vs non-"N", is there a difference?

    From a Porsche brochure:

    Screen shot 2010-05-16 at 9.21.39 AM.png


    Re: "N" tires vs non-"N", is there a difference?

    You would need to respect load ratings also. The non N rated Diamaris had lower load than the N specced one (Cayenne)...


    Re: "N" tires vs non-"N", is there a difference?

    There is also the issue of different N numbers. The higher the number, the more recent the tyre version.

    On my 997.1 C2S, I use Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 in these sizes (front: 235/35 ZR 19 87 (Y) and rear: 295/30 ZR 19 100 (Y)). I currently have Porsche N1 spec tyres which I am very happy with. Apparently, these tyres are also available in N2 spec according to the Michelin website. I have also seen N4 spec OEM Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 tyres at a OPC fitted on a second generation 997.2 car.

    Does anyone have a view on N2 spec and N4 spec tyres? Would you prefer those or would you stick with the N1 spec tyres? (The N1 spec tyres have been on sale for years - they are clearly very good and have been selling well).

    http://www.michelin.co.uk/michelinuk/AfficheServlet?Rubrique=20061113094139&Langue=EN

    -- 

    RT Moderator
    - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: "N" tires vs non-"N", is there a difference?

    If I had a choice I would go for the most recent N spec. But if I was in a hurry to change I wouldn't dismiss an earlier version provided that the manufacturing date (shown in weeks and year on the sidewall) wasn't that old.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: "N" tires vs non-"N", is there a difference?

    Thanks reginos

    Some very interesting and informative links from the Tire Rack website:

    Sidewall markings:

    http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=33

    Regarding Speed Rating and Load Index:

    http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=35

    Regarding tyre age:

    http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=11

     


    --

     
    RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: "N" tires vs non-"N", is there a difference?

    Easy - very useful information..especially to determine the date of manufacture.

    Many thanks for sharing..

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


     
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