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    Apr 1, 2010 2:38:07 PM

    Leeward Offline
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    Aston Martin Vantage Roadster... or 997S Cabrio

     Cannot access my old nick 993Targa, so here under a new name.

    Sold my 993 Targa last October because I wanted a full convertible and also a more modern car with the safety features.

    I'm looking for 2-3 year old car and the two candidates are AM Vantage Roadster or 997S Cabrio. On paper the 997 is the better car, but the Zürich area has probably the highest density of Porsche cars especially 997s...

    I like the Aston because it's in my eyes the best looking car around (next to the Gallardo) and I love the sound of the V8 engine. It's also not too flashy compared to the Ferrari or Lambos.

    I've been driving Porsches for a bit more than 10 years (I'm 40yrs old). Had only positive experiences and love the driving sensation.  Reliabilty and cost of maintenance are also plusses for Porsche.  

    I've been reading quite a bit about the AM Vantage and there don't seem to big issues regarding reliability, although service costs seem to be higher. 

    But would love to get some input from the experts on the board here.

    Cheers

    Rob

    993Targa Posts: 1061

    Apr 1, 2010 3:16:45 PM

    koko
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    Reply to: Leeward

    Re: Aston Martin Vantage Roadster... or 997S Cabrio

    the Vantage is amazing. I think you should go for it. I recommend you getting the Manual tranny cause AM's sportronic/f1 is not that great and it will cause  you  a lot of headache.

    And yes Zurich does have a lot of Porsches

     

    Apr 1, 2010 3:37:47 PM

    SciFrog Offline
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    Reply to: koko

    Re: Aston Martin Vantage Roadster... or 997S Cabrio

    I have owned both (well 996, but it is the same).

    Service costs on the AM are MUCH higher (think 3 times more).

    I haven't had big issues except for a tranny problem (bad batch of clutches from the factory).

    Sportshift is quirky but very usable, you need to try it before, it is not for everyone, but after two years, no regrets getting it over the manual, especially for a roadster. It takes a while to learn how to use it properly (ie more than a test drive).

    Navigation system is useless and the car controls are don't have a very efficient layout and design.

    The 997 will perform better, but on the road, it doesn't really matter.

    Resale value on the AM is bad, but no surprise really (50% first two years), you are buying used anyway.

    All that said, the experience of AM ownership is way beyond the 911. Hard to describe, but very unique (well you see 911 on a daily basis around here).

    Design is very subjective, but the exterior and interior of the AM is magnificent if you find the color combo you like.

    Exhaust note is amazing, especially with an aftermarket exhaoust (I have a Larini rear box).

    The 09 model have a bigger engine with 40 more hp but more importantly more torque at low end. I have the 08 with the 4.3l but fitted with the factory powerkit and Larini exhaust, I am basically at the same level of the 4.7l engine stock. All work done by the dealer so warranty intact (3 years in the US).

    Extended warranties are ridiculously expensive, almost Ferrari prices. I will pass on that but I am the original owner of the car.

    Bottom line: I hope to keep the AM roadster for a very long time, really enjoying the car when I was ready to replace the 911 after three years.

     

    Good luck!

    Apr 1, 2010 4:01:41 PM

    Leeward Offline
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    Reply to: SciFrog

    Re: Aston Martin Vantage Roadster... or 997S Cabrio

     Thanks Sci, very valuable feedback. Hardly see any manuals offered, so will likely get a Sportshift.  Service costs I can stomach, but it's good to be prepared for that! The 4.7 engine is tempting, but the 4.3 is sufficient for a roadster I guess. I will test drive both the make up my mind anyway.

     

    Apr 1, 2010 4:06:58 PM

    SciFrog Offline
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    Reply to: Leeward

    Re: Aston Martin Vantage Roadster... or 997S Cabrio

    If you look at a 4.3, ask if they had the powerkit done. My dealer claims most 4.3 cars are getting fitted with it ($5-6k cost).

    If the exhaust was modified, make sure it is only the rear box and not the cats, are this voids warranty and my dealer would not touch them.

     

    http://www.rennteam.com/forum/thread/387460/AMV8_Roadster_Sportshift_is_here/page1.html

    Apr 1, 2010 4:38:09 PM

    Leeward Offline
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    Reply to: SciFrog

    Re: Aston Martin Vantage Roadster... or 997S Cabrio

     The red looks amazing on the AMV8! Thanks for posting the link! 

    Apr 1, 2010 5:00:57 PM

    racerx
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    Reply to: SciFrog

    Re: Aston Martin Vantage Roadster... or 997S Cabrio

    SciFrog:

    If you look at a 4.3, ask if they had the powerkit done. My dealer claims most 4.3 cars are getting fitted with it ($5-6k cost).

    If the exhaust was modified, make sure it is only the rear box and not the cats, are this voids warranty and my dealer would not touch them.

     

    http://www.rennteam.com/forum/thread/387460/AMV8_Roadster_Sportshift_is_here/page1.html

     

    AM makes a beautiful car!

    Apr 1, 2010 5:22:54 PM

    SciFrog Offline
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    Reply to: racerx

    Re: Aston Martin Vantage Roadster... or 997S Cabrio

    Toro red, Sahara leather, Mahogany upper console, sand alcantara roof lining.

    Apr 1, 2010 5:54:09 PM

    Leeward Offline
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    Reply to: SciFrog

    Re: Aston Martin Vantage Roadster... or 997S Cabrio

     How is the quality of the leather after 2 years of ownership?

    Apr 1, 2010 6:10:33 PM

    SciFrog Offline
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    Reply to: Leeward

    Re: Aston Martin Vantage Roadster... or 997S Cabrio

    Overall looks like new good but the car has only 5,000 miles. It is a softish leather. The only place it shows small signs of wear is the side seat bolster, the color is spotless but there is a small sign of stress in the texture. Nothing big really, most wouldn't notice unless shown.

    The car has held much better than I thought.

    Apr 1, 2010 8:07:41 PM

    Carlos from SpainM
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    Reply to: Leeward

    Re: Aston Martin Vantage Roadster... or 997S Cabrio

    Leeward:

     Cannot access my old nick 993Targa, so here under a new name.


    Rob

    993Targa Posts: 1061

    Hi Rob, why can't you access your old account? lost your password? I can try to help you log on to your old account if you want.


    --

    Apr 1, 2010 9:37:12 PM

    GT Offline
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    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: Aston Martin Vantage Roadster... or 997S Cabrio

    Sorry to spoil the party here guys but I have a bit of a different opinion on the subject. I was thinking of getting a vantage roadster for the past 2 yrs for a DD and finally pulled the trigger 3 weeks ago on a stunning looking N400 roadster manual (stay away from sportshift, its not really not great). Well I have to say that the only things I like about this car (and I was soooo excited to get one) were the exterior/interior looks and the sound of the 700w premium audio system. Everything else were a massive disappointment. Where do I start? The 4.3 factory upgraded 405hp engine is really NOT a 405hp engine! My JCW mini was so much faster for god sake and the absence of low/mid torque is really annoying. I was not expecting a super fast car (I have a modded 997tt) but I really did not expect sth that is so lethargic. Now I was told by the dealer to rev the car to get the "power", well tried that and apart. From a smelling clutch I did not get any sense of power. The carrera will feel like an aeroplane compared to the aston. Then re usability, well this is where it also scores pretty badly. The visibility is a serious issue for a DD as you can't really see the corners of the car and the windscreen is so low you can really sit high as you bump your head on the roof. (No I am not tall guy, 5 9'). No the build quality of the interior is good but.. the electronics/buttins/ navi are really below par. Apart from the fact that the buttons of the navi were sticky and half the time did not work, the bloody thing was really difficult to use.. Needless to say after 3 weeks the car is sold (thank god) and I just bought a 430 spider F1 instead. My advise is to test drive the 4.3 and 4.7 EXTENSIVELY before you buy. Especially since you had a porsche (like me). If you can try the V12 as well.

    Apr 2, 2010 3:27:47 AM

    koko
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    Reply to: GT

    Re: Aston Martin Vantage Roadster... or 997S Cabrio

    the 4.3 is more than enough. i had it for a long weekend last summer. it's a lovely car. it had the standard sound system which was not bad, but i have to say the Navi was super crap!! i swear it felt like one of them cheap navi add-on that u see on the clearance section at a supermarket.

    also, make sure you get a good deal on ur car even if it's a second hand. one of the dealers i know has a stock over 20 brand  new u ones that he can't sell till know although he is offering crazy discount!!

    one more thing, since ur last car was a Targa, Did u consider getting a used 997 Targe??

    i love it. it's the only Porsche that i would buy

     

    Apr 2, 2010 3:31:45 AM

    SciFrog Offline
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    Reply to: koko

    Re: Aston Martin Vantage Roadster... or 997S Cabrio

    I said above the AM is quirky and not for everyone.

    However saying a Mini feels faster, that is simply not true (I love my Mini).

    Also saying a 430 is better is an understatement, it better be considering it costs twice as much 

    The N400 achieved 7.57 at the NBR, not far from the 997 (7.54), each with factory approved tires (better tires on the N400).

    Apr 2, 2010 6:36:19 AM

    Leeward Offline
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    Reply to: SciFrog

    Re: Aston Martin Vantage Roadster... or 997S Cabrio

     Thanks GT, its also good to get a different opinion. For me the AMV8 will not be a daily driver. I will take it out for a spin in the mountains or a weekend trip to Italy, France etc.

    All the tests I'v seen claim it's close to the 997 performance wise, to be honest for a roadster thats good enough. I haven't made up my mind, so a 997 is still an option.

    The DB9 will not be sportier than the V8 in my opinion. Also stiffness of the car (in the Volante versions) is an issue I've heard.

    Apr 2, 2010 6:38:59 AM

    Leeward Offline
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    Reply to: Leeward

    Re: Aston Martin Vantage Roadster... or 997S Cabrio

     @Koko. I loved the Targa and it's a great compromise between Coupe and Cabrio. But I only drive the car in "Cabrio" conditions, so decided for the Cabrio. If I was happy with the Targa roof I would not have sold the 993.

    Apr 2, 2010 11:31:55 AM

    GT Offline
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    Reply to: Leeward

    Re: Aston Martin Vantage Roadster... or 997S Cabrio

    Let me be a bit more concise in my description below to avoid any misunderstandings. I was in love with that car before I bought it. I ever test drove a 4.7 but was really in tiny streets in ldn so could not feel much. Yes the N400 was slower than the my 225hp JCW. The worst problem was that it felt sooo lethargic compared to anything resembling a sports car. Stepping from the Aston to the mini I had to regulate my right (and left! foot) as both the accelerator and brakes were so much more responsive. It also felt extremely lethrgic even vs an ML63AMG which is also supposedly in the 5sec to 0-100km mark. We actually pitted those next to each other just to see in reality whether that subjective feeling was close to reality.. It was. The 2 tonne+ ML pulled away 20mrs+ by second gear. Embarassing. That's the combination of a lot of weight, below average engine with very low driveability and looong gearing. The 997 is just a better car in absolutely everything. Its more fun, more practical, more reliable. You can drive to work but also push it when you see 200 metres of free road. The aston has none of the above. I struggled to park the thing, no pleasure to rev hard since there was no acceleration whatsoever, but just clutch smell. And re the 430, I just bought a 3 year old spider in mint condition for a 15k more that the 2 year old aston, in the UK. Now THAT's a bargain.. My grudge above is that in 2010 you should be able for that kind of money to buy a nice looking sportscar that is reasonably practical AND fun. AM was neither, just beautiful. No substance whatsoever, even the manual gearbox was very very notchy (AM sportshift is antiquated imo). Its unacceptable for AM to have a 4.3lt engine that wakes up (a tiny bit) from 6k-7k rpm while its slower than an entry level CLK below that. All automotive tests are trying to hint that but can't really say it out loud. Sorry but things have progressed since the 90s. AM has to catch up or they will not make it, really. Try the V12 or go for the 997S cab imo.

    Apr 2, 2010 12:07:52 PM

    SciFrog Offline
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    Reply to: GT

    Re: Aston Martin Vantage Roadster... or 997S Cabrio

    Did you have a clutch problem? Slipping?

     

    Here a two year old Roadster will be $90k, a two year old 430 spider $180k Smiley

    Apr 2, 2010 1:29:32 PM

    GT Offline
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    Re: Aston Martin Vantage Roadster... or 997S Cabrio

    Wow that's quite a difference.. It seems there is an arbitrage in the uk. The AM I got was a bit more expensive since it was the N400. If one goes that route I very strongly recommend the N400 since it truly looks better, has all the optical (DBS lights, bespoke wheels, bespoke side skirts, bespoke interior seats/dash/console)and engine/suspension extras etc and is pretty limited and unique (only 120 cabs in lhd/rhd silver, black or orange..). Apparently they also hold their value quite well. The car had 11k miles on the clock and less than 2 yrs old. No clutch slippage but it seems that the clutch did not like the high revs. Counterintuitive if you ask me since that engine only wakes up a bit after 5k rpm. I don't know maybe the 4.7 is a lot better in terms of driveability but I seriously doubt it. Worth a try though.

    Apr 2, 2010 1:36:23 PM

    GT Offline
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    Reply to: SciFrog

    Re: Aston Martin Vantage Roadster... or 997S Cabrio

    Wow that's quite a difference.. It seems there is an arbitrage in the uk. The AM I got was a bit more expensive since it was the N400. If one goes that route I very strongly recommend the N400 since it truly looks better, has all the optical (DBS lights, bespoke wheels, bespoke side skirts, bespoke interior seats/dash/console)and engine/suspension extras etc and is pretty limited and unique (only 120 cabs in lhd/rhd silver, black or orange..). Apparently they also hold their value quite well. The car had 11k miles on the clock and less than 2 yrs old. No clutch slippage but it seems that the clutch did not like the high revs. Counterintuitive if you ask me since that engine only wakes up a bit after 5k rpm. I don't know maybe the 4.7 is a lot better in terms of driveability but I seriously doubt it. Worth a try though.

    Apr 2, 2010 1:39:16 PM

    SciFrog Offline
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    Reply to: GT

    Re: Aston Martin Vantage Roadster... or 997S Cabrio

     Maybe my exhaust does more than I thought 

    Apr 2, 2010 9:55:27 PM

    fritz
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    Reply to: GT

    Re: Aston Martin Vantage Roadster... or 997S Cabrio

    GT:
    I struggled to park the thing, no pleasure to rev hard since there was no acceleration whatsoever, but just clutch smell. 

     I don't understand that.  Smiley

    If the smell were to be caused by a slipping clutch, you'd expect to hear the engine revving excessively even if the car did not accelerate. Smiley

    Unless the smell was caused by the parking brake still being on, which would explain the problems with parking, acceleration and overheating friction material.  Smiley


    --

    fritz

    Apr 4, 2010 2:42:51 AM

    GT Offline
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    Re: Aston Martin Vantage Roadster... or 997S Cabrio

    .. or this is not a car that is designed to be driven like a GT3 or sth where you can can redline the engine/tranny all day long without issues. Or maybe you ve been driving P (or generally german) cars for a while now and take for granted their engineering. Btw the only person I know with a manual vantage in the continent who revs the car regularly reported 3 burned clutches in 30k kms. So maybe yes that clutch was towards the end of its life, but there was definitely no perceivable clutch slipping Fritz. (and the car was purchased from a dealer who checked it beforehand as well).

    Apr 4, 2010 2:45:29 AM

    GT Offline
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    Reply to: fritz

    Re: Aston Martin Vantage Roadster... or 997S Cabrio

    .. or this is not a car that is designed to be driven like a GT3 or sth where you can can redline the engine/tranny all day long without issues. Or maybe you ve been driving P (or generally german) cars for a while now and take for granted their engineering. Btw the only person I know with a manual vantage in the continent who revs the car regularly reported 3 burned clutches in 30k kms. So maybe yes that clutch was towards the end of its life, but there was definitely no perceivable clutch slipping Fritz. (and the car was purchased from a dealer who checked it beforehand as well).

    Apr 4, 2010 2:51:39 AM

    GT Offline
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    Reply to: fritz

    Re: Aston Martin Vantage Roadster... or 997S Cabrio

    .. or this is not a car that is designed to be driven like a GT3 or sth where you can can redline the engine/tranny all day long without issues. Or maybe you ve been driving P (or generally german) cars for a while now and take for granted their engineering. Btw the only person I know with a manual vantage in the continent who revs the car regularly reported 3 burned clutches in 30k kms. So maybe yes that clutch was towards the end of its life, but there was definitely no perceivable clutch slipping Fritz. (and the car was purchased from a dealer who checked it beforehand as well).

    Apr 4, 2010 2:52:44 AM

    GT Offline
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    Re: Aston Martin Vantage Roadster... or 997S Cabrio

    Apologies guys, my bberry has a mind of its own..

    Apr 4, 2010 5:06:12 AM

    SciFrog Offline
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    Reply to: GT

    Re: Aston Martin Vantage Roadster... or 997S Cabrio

    I redline my AM everytime I drive it...

    Apr 4, 2010 6:37:32 AM

    993Targa
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    Reply to: SciFrog

    Re: Aston Martin Vantage Roadster... or 997S Cabrio

     I will make sure to test drive the 997S and the AMV8 back to back.

    993Targa=Leeward


    --
    993 Targa Black/Black

    Apr 4, 2010 5:40:28 PM

    BjoernB
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    Reply to: 993Targa

    Re: Aston Martin Vantage Roadster... or 997S Cabrio

     I've driven both (4.3 AMV8 only not 4.7) and the plus is clearly it's sound and its looks. From a driving prospective the 997 feels much like a "go-cart" vs the Vantage is more like a GT.

    I like the doors going slightly up when you open plus the dials are very nice - but the rest of the interior is "so lala" - eventhough 997 Mk1 or Mk2 is also not a highlight when it comes to the interior unless you fully spec it with leather.

    Totally agree that a 997 has here lost a bit of it's appeal as there are sooooo many around....in my apartment block we're 7  - and a couple of guys have changed to a R8 and a DB9.

    Prices for Gen 1 997 in CH are down a lot and you get even a low km turbo for 130k - but I would go for a used Turbo if you want Power , the Aston if you want sound and looks - and the 991 if you can wait....

    Apr 6, 2010 3:40:19 PM

    Rookie
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    Reply to: BjoernB

    Re: Aston Martin Vantage Roadster... or 997S Cabrio

    Hi,

    i wanted an AMV8 very badly because it has a stunning design, a great exhaust note. I liked it best, when i went in cruising speed ... not pushing it ... can't describe it ... just felt good.

    But as soon as i tried to go fast with it to exploit the performance ... it failed all over for me. It lacks power for me ... german Autobahn in the heavy AMV8 Roadster was a nightmare ... no torque, lots of shifting and reving without striking effort.

    The Carrera is the better car for me ... by far! ... but it does not make you "feel" special ... also the reception of people in traffic is totally different, when driving an AMV8 ... most women react 180° different coompared to Porsche 911 ;-)

    As a performance-buyer i choose the 911 ... with a grint of salt ... because i started to find them boring.

    Best regards

    Tom

     
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