CloseMikla:
I've also seen low kms Panamera 4S for less than 100.000 Euros!
With low mileage, you can actually cut some pretty sweet deals over here in Germany, depending on the dealer and his inventory.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW
RC:
These are the cars which are officially entered into the system. Many dealers have cars which aren't in the system (yet).
To make it short: it is pretty easy to get a Panamera, especially the Turbo, for instant delivery. Most cars are pretty well equipped.
100% agree. My dealer - only a small brunch - has 4 (!) Panamera on stock and he told me confidential (after I mentioned my decision for the X5M) that the Panameras standing like rocks in his exhibition. Only 1 sale in almost 6 months.
From recent posts by you, RC and others, it looks like the Panamera is just not the right car at the right price for the German market. Also, with the German public's view of SUVs (even RC's new choice of the X5M), looks like the Cayenne will not sell well either. I find it very sad that two of Porsche's newest products apparently do not fit into the German market. I find it even sadder that the public pressure in Germany is so pervasive that Porsche enthusiasts have to go "undercover" to avoid being criticized or threatened.
I am not sure yet how the Panamera is now being received in the U.S. overall, or how the new Cayenne will sell, but I can say that my local small dealer had sold nine Panameras from October-January (have not checked back since then), and that SUVs are not detested here in general. I have driven my CTTS since July here, and have only had admiring comments.
These seemingly different markets must have Porsche marketers/engineers pulling their hair out. How to adjust your model mix to suit different markets is a tremendous challenge...
Surprisingly, I think that the new Cayenne will sell better, at first, than the Panamera in Germany. I wouldn't bet on it but looking at the new Cayenne, it is definetely an attractive product, especially in the lower power range where the interesting prices could attract many customers. I also think that the Panamera base models could sell much better than the S or the Turbo, simply because even the 300 HP version is pretty fast and the price tags more attractive.
I'm no marketing expert, I can only express my personal feelings and observations.
A lot depends on the german media: if they start to portray the Cayenne as a modern and fuel efficient new product, this could help. I still have my doubts though that this is going to happen.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW
I saw my first Panny yesterday as I was walking. It was coming towards me from a red light in the 2nd travel lane. I am very observant when it comes to cars or chicks. When I first noticed it, I thought cayman for a brief second then realized I was about to see the elusive Panamera in the wild.
It was marine/sea blue. I saw it from the front, then side profile and then back.
What a let-down. I was not even stunned by its size or ugliness.
It was just a car, un-remarkable. No superlatives - good or bad, not even any sound distinguishable from the other traffic. Just another vehicle driving by. When I reached the intersection an LS 460 pulled up in black. My immediate impression was the 460 had more class and stature as a sedan. I can not see the justification for the price tag of the panny.
Panny = Fail 
racerx: What a let-down. I was not even stunned by its size or ugliness.It was just a car, un-remarkable. No superlatives - good or bad, not even any sound distinguishable from the other traffic. Just another vehicle driving by.
That's not the reaction I get when I drive around Cincinnati in my Panamera Turbo.
I get plenty of double takes followed by onlookers pointing me out to their friends and arms extended my way ending in up-turned thumbs. Like this one: 
YMMV.
Mike
2005 Carrera GT - Signal Yellow + 2008 Tesla Roadster - Thunder Gray +1972 BMW 3.0 CSi - Nachtblau +2009 Bentley Arnage T - Black Saphire
Mar 16, 2010 4:31:40 PM
racerx:
I saw my first Panny yesterday as I was walking. It was coming towards me from a red light in the 2nd travel lane. I am very observant when it comes to cars or chicks. When I first noticed it, I thought cayman for a brief second then realized I was about to see the elusive Panamera in the wild.
It was marine/sea blue. I saw it from the front, then side profile and then back.
What a let-down. I was not even stunned by its size or ugliness.
It was just a car, un-remarkable. No superlatives - good or bad, not even any sound distinguishable from the other traffic. Just another vehicle driving by. When I reached the intersection an LS 460 pulled up in black. My immediate impression was the 460 had more class and stature as a sedan. I can not see the justification for the price tag of the panny.
Panny = Fail
Exactly my thoughts, nothing special about it. If you really want so bad wait 9 to 10 months you can pick one up for probably 50k to 60k less MSRP. Real disappointment from Porsche 
.
Mar 16, 2010 5:21:58 PM
Sure if you like a LS 460 then Panamera isn´t for you!
Around our city there driving hundreds of Panameras (we are 20 km far from Weissach or Zuffenhausen) and even young girls can´t close their mouth when a Panamera is passing them. Never had sean this when a LS 460 was passing.
W8MM:
racerx: What a let-down. I was not even stunned by its size or ugliness.It was just a car, un-remarkable. No superlatives - good or bad, not even any sound distinguishable from the other traffic. Just another vehicle driving by.
That's not the reaction I get when I drive around Cincinnati in my Panamera Turbo.
I get plenty of double takes followed by onlookers pointing me out to their friends and arms extended my way ending in up-turned thumbs. Like this one:
YMMV.
Not everyone has close to 30 years exposure to the best sports cars. Some people are impressed by 10 push-ups.
YMMV
ALDO:
Sure if you like a LS 460 then Panamera isn´t for you!
Around our city there driving hundreds of Panameras (we are 20 km far from Weissach or Zuffenhausen) and even young girls can´t close their mouth when a Panamera is passing them. Never had sean this when a LS 460 was passing.
Hey ALDO, that's wishful thinking. 
The secret of life is to admire without desiring.
Mar 16, 2010 5:37:31 PM
Ron (Houston):
Exactly my thoughts, nothing special about it.
But you know what new car did catch my eye shape-wise at the supermarket the other day - some new acura crossover thing.
EDIT - the brand new Acura ZDX in Black in person for a brief few minutes this thing looked good/different, in an X6 way. Don't know if I will keep that opinion over time but it sure had more presence than the panny.
racerx:
It was just a car, un-remarkable. No superlatives - good or bad, not even any sound distinguishable from the other traffic. Just another vehicle driving by. When I reached the intersection an LS 460 pulled up in black. My immediate impression was the 460 had more class and stature as a sedan. I can not see the justification for the price tag of the panny.
Not trying to start anything... I swear 
But if that was the case, it would contradict everything that our Euro friends have been saying about this car being too flashy and having a bad image, especially in Germany
Slow In, Fast Out
racerx:
Not everyone has close to 30 years exposure to the best sports cars. Some people are impressed by 10 push-ups.
YMMV
Give it a rest.
I owned two new 928s back when, so I'm not immune to their charms.
However, that was then and the Panamera looks to me like an amalgam of Carrera GT, 928 and 911. It looks good enough to me to be happy I bought one.
Sorry that you seem to be allergic to it.
BTW, I'd be impressed with 10 push-ups if they were one-handed, nose to the floor, and done by somebody my age
--
Mike
2005 Carrera GT - Signal Yellow + 2008 Tesla Roadster - Thunder Gray +1972 BMW 3.0 CSi - Nachtblau +2009 Bentley Arnage T - Black Saphire
FFaust:
racerx:
It was just a car, un-remarkable. No superlatives - good or bad, not even any sound distinguishable from the other traffic. Just another vehicle driving by. When I reached the intersection an LS 460 pulled up in black. My immediate impression was the 460 had more class and stature as a sedan. I can not see the justification for the price tag of the panny.
Not trying to start anything... I swear
But if that was the case, it would contradict everything that our Euro friends have been saying about this car being too flashy and having a bad image, especially in Germany
Big Big difference in cultures and people. We like beautiful things here and individual expression and contrary to some most of us americans including myself like expensive things.
W8MM:
racerx:
Not everyone has close to 30 years exposure to the best sports cars. Some people are impressed by 10 push-ups.
YMMV
Give it a rest.
I owned two new 928s back when, so I'm not immune to their charms.
However, that was then and the Panamera looks to me like an amalgam of Carrera GT, 928 and 911. It looks good enough to me to be happy I bought one.
Sorry that you seem to be allergic to it.
BTW, I'd be impressed with 10 push-ups if they were one-handed, nose to the floor, and done by somebody my age
I was not referring to my 928, but to a history of exposure to great designs. 30 years ago as a 17 year old I drove down to a ferrari dealer in another state with a buddy in his fathers Jag 12 cyl. XKE conv. to check out an fcar 308 for possible purchase. Driven all kinds of 911's, been around all marques for 30 years, not just the 928.
I am glad you are happy with your purchase but most opinion on the Panny on all boards I have read is negative on its looks and was more so on introduction with some "growing to accept it".
the only guy I know of who came close on the push-ups is dead.
racerx: I am glad you are happy with your purchase but .....
You really go out of your way to make friends and influence people.
Mike
2005 Carrera GT - Signal Yellow + 2008 Tesla Roadster - Thunder Gray +1972 BMW 3.0 CSi - Nachtblau +2009 Bentley Arnage T - Black Saphire
W8MM:
racerx: I am glad you are happy with your purchase but .....
You really go out of your way to make friends and influence people.
funny I thought about that last night, if you want truth and some thought you can find it here sometimes, if you want an endless stream of 1 word pats on the back like "sick" you can go to L4P.
I grew up with tough brothers and a tough father and played a lot of sports, very little sugar coating. Sycophants aren't my style, I don't BS ya.
But you know I like your little school bus.
The Panamera is definetely an impressive sedan and whoever says that the 460 has more class...well... 
I like the Panamera Turbo a lot, I'm not too fond of the rear and I don't like the size of this car (for Germany) and what is even worse, I don't like the price tag. Otherwise the Panamera Turbo is class leader and a very impressive performer, I would not even dream of comparing it to any other sedan on the market right now. I loved driving it. 
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (on the ship), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW
Good post, RC, clearly stated.
I like the Lexus 460, especially the L version, and have driven one for well over 1000 kms. While enjoyable, it is certainly not a sports sedan in the class of a Panamera, much less a Panamera Turbo.
On the design, the Lexus and Panamera are remarkably similar in general appearance. If Wild Speed or Misha added a square trunk to a Panamera, or a round rear to a Lexus, they are much the same.
I don't like Lexus as a brand, it is just a re-badged Toyota. I don't know how Toyota succeeded, same goes to Nissan with Infinity (btw: I rented an Infinity G37 for my second US trip this year because it was a special offer and I'm curious to drive it).
The Panamera is in a different league than Lexus in my opinion.
@Mike: you can't be serious. You already have your Panamera Turbo and you didn't post lots of photos and a detailed driving report? 
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (on the ship), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW
Outside of Germany, performance is way down the list of priorities in a sedan. Exterior looks top the list followed by interior comfort and style, sound, functionality, quality, lots more I am sure and then 0-60 or 0-200.
so who cares how fast a sedan goes
but there is no argument that the panny excels in performance
racerx:
When I reached the intersection an LS 460 pulled up in black. My immediate impression was the 460 had more class and stature as a sedan. I can not see the justification for the price tag of the panny.
LS460 ?!? Please! From a looks perspective it's just another preppy car. From a performance perspective is an average sedan compared to the Panamera driver's car character.
_________________________________________________________
A. Dias --- 997.2S. Previous cars: Corvette C6, 996 C4.
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