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Re: 2011 Cayenne with no camo
IMO Piech also has automotive engineering achievements to show and mostly the development of the Audi brand from almost nothing to a BMW, Mercedes rival.
Wiedeking was mostly a very good production engineer and CEO, until he was overtaken by blind ambition.
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It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts
Re: 2011 Cayenne with no camo
Boyko23:
So, does anybody know when the press embargo over the Cayenne 2 will be over?
When the Geneva auto salon starts (March 4th) ? 
Btw: I like the Cayenne interior more than the X5 M interior but I like the navigation system more on the X5 M. Unless Porsche finally comes up with 3G and full internet on their system (X5 M uses EDGE only). It is also interesting that the "full" internet access isn't available in the US, just in Europe and maybe (?) other countries.
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW
Re: 2011 Cayenne with no camo
artur777:
Windelin Wideking is also one of the greatest as well as Piech
He led the Porsche from losses and unclera future to the most profitable car-maker
Wendelin Wiedeking is a victim of his own success. His ambitions were too high and he didn't seem to listen to some warnings from his surroundings. If a car company earns more money with financial "tricks" than with cars, something is definetely wrong. The financial crisis came to the wrong time, Wiedeking would have needed another 6 months to complete the VW deal. The question however is: what would have happened AFTER ? With the financial crisis in his back ? Maybe it is better like it is now, Piech loves cars and VW isn't necessarily a bad thing for Porsche.
Btw: I owe Dr. Wiedeking a lot, he personally took care of two of my problems with Porsche and the job got done perfectly. Despite his ambitions, he still tried to help customers (but I have to admit that it helped to have his direct fax number 
). Thanks to him, I got the first and only customer ordered Tiptronic 997 Turbo in Germany before the factory summer vacation (997 Turbo introduction), all other cars were reserved as showcars or for Porsche CEOs.
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW
Re: 2011 Cayenne with no camo
RC:
Wendelin Wiedeking is a victim of his own success. His ambitions were too high and he didn't seem to listen to some warnings from his surroundings. If a car company earns more money with financial "tricks" than with cars, something is definetely wrong. The financial crisis came to the wrong time, Wiedeking would have needed another 6 months to complete the VW deal. The question however is: what would have happened AFTER ? With the financial crisis in his back ? Maybe it is better like it is now, Piech loves cars and VW isn't necessarily a bad thing for Porsche.
The fact that he didn't judge well that the political climate in Germany was against his takeover plans and that he underestimated the Workers' Union influence are things that detract from his strategic abilities. His assumption all the way was the removal of the Niedersachsen blocking majority which proved a utopia. Neither German nor EU politicians wanted to touch this issue; big error of judgment by WW.
Btw: I owe Dr. Wiedeking a lot, he personally took care of two of my problems with Porsche and the job got done perfectly. Despite his ambitions, he still tried to help customers (but I have to admit that it helped to have his direct fax number
I am impressed! I am sure you won't have this treatment at BMW 
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It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts
Re: 2011 Cayenne with no camo
RC:
What has "poor" Piech done to you ? You are aware that he is part of the Porsche family, his mother was a Porsche.
As long as the products and their prices are OK, I wouldn't care.
Haha, my view towards Piech was discussed in some other thread quite a while ago, I think he is quite an engineer but his business decisions sometimes are quite questionable.
Recently I just found out something else that makes me like him even less. Long story but the short version is I just found out my father's first wife, who was a born German but had her roots in Austria, and she had some Piech family blood flowing inside her. But her memories of the Piech family is not favorable.
Re: 2011 Cayenne with no camo
nina:
Hey Piech is a genius,Just look at the great Phaeton(his creation).
The Phaeton was the right car at the wrong time with the wrong badge (VW). No matter how (un)successful this car was, it pushed VW's imagine up and helped to sell the Passat at that time. Piech was responsible for raising quality at VW, before his influence, the quality was at Fiat level. At best.
So while I don't agree with all his decisons/projects, I think this man is a visionary and somebody with fuel in his blood. He loves cars, he is an engineer, so maybe Porsche can profit from that. Especially since he is a "real" Porsche, just with a different name.
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW
Re: 2011 Cayenne with no camo
One would argue the Touareg, not the Phaeton is the product that pushes VW imagine up market. Most people conceive Cayenne is a rebadged Touareg and a Touareg a rebadged Cayenne depending on which side of the market one is looking from. From the VW side, Touareg is a fantastic value, a Porsche Cayenne without the high price tag, It's one of the best equiped and quality built VW also help. While the price tag is higher than normal for a VW, the image of it being a Cayenne in disguise help sell it at that high price point, as it still reflect a discount compared with the Porsche version.
All is not lost for the Phaeton, VAG savaged that disaster and turned it into one of the best Bentley sedan/coupe.
Re: 2011 Cayenne with no camo
As I stated on another thread, I hope Piech pushes Porsche a bit harder to break out more from the incremental design approach. I admire the approach--form follows function, etc.--but I personally think the Boxster and even the new 997TT.2 need some significant design changes. The Panamera--like it or not--was a major and innovative design.
I do worry that Piech has a mean, vindictive streak, and that the VW designs of recent times have been underinspired. The Phaeton was just plain ordinary looking, as is the Passat. And the Audi sedans are conservative as well, following a rather old pattern like the BMW and Lexus. Mercedes seems to be taking more design risks, and while I am not a big Merc fan, I admire the efforts.
Just spouting off. But hey, what are Boards for?
Re: 2011 Cayenne with no camo
I am aware of his work on the 917 racing team. Still the Phaeton was an over prized and ugly car who was a failure and if released in 10 years would again fail. Porsche was doing fine. We are watching the Porsche brand being volswagenized. Piech has always despised his Porshe family. He always felt like a bastard because his last name was different. Maybe this is his revenge.
Re: 2011 Cayenne with no camo
nina:
Porsche was doing fine. We are watching the Porsche brand being volswagenized. Piech has always despised his Porshe family. He always felt like a bastard because his last name was different. Maybe this is his revenge.
I highly doubt that. If you knew the Porsche family and Piech, you wouldn't say that. 
Porsche wasn't doing fine at all, they weren't earning money with selling cars but with tricky financial transactions. Piech realized that pretty early and was afraid that Porsche could be bought by a third party like Mercedes or an investment group. Through the Touareg/Cayenne project, the ties between VW and Porsche were closer than many people realize. Don't forget that the Cayenne was practically the most successful Porsche so far.
"Volkswagenizing" the Porsche brand ? Well, look at Lamborghini and Bentley. Also look at Audi. I think VW did a marvelous job to keep each brand independent and with its own profile.
I don't say that I like what I see now (VW owning Porsche) but it could have some very positive side effect for the future. Just give VW a chance.
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW
15.01.2010 14:02:19
- Wild-Speed
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Antwort auf:
RC
15.01.2010 14:34:55
- reginos
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Re: 2011 Cayenne with no camo
Wild-Speed:
... I hope they will turn Porsche into a real sportscar manufacturer again. No more Cayenne's and Panamera's but 911's and 928's and many racers!
I cannot see how additional models detract from sportscar characteristics of the sports models. Was the 911 sportier up to the 993 when there were no non-sport models? Or was the Carrera GT reduced as a special car because the Cayenne was produced at the same time? I don't think so.
The new 928 will come purely because the Panamera exists.
As regards motorsport there are many more chances of top level competition now under VW than during the WW period of "illusion of independence".
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It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts
Re: 2011 Cayenne with no camo
I don't know a single person who drove/owned a Cayenne Turbo and/or Panamera Turbo and would want Porsche NOT to produce these cars anymore.
I met so many 911 owners who made fun of my Cayenne Turbo S...until I showed them what this "truck" (like many of them called it) is capable of. There also seems to be a problem with those Porsche owners who don't have a family and/or don't live in a snowy/desert region.
I consider myself a hardcore Porsche customer but I would never want Porsche to stop Cayenne/Panamera production. On the contrary, there is enough potential for more interesting "side products". As long as Porsche builds the 911 and similar sporty models too, I have no problems with that.
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW
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