Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Dilemma: Carrera 4S or Turbo - please help - Page1

Dec 15, 2009 5:11:40 PM

FFaust: Senior; Loc: Toronto'ish , Canada; Posts: 736, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 15, 2009; Reply to: Porsche-Jeck

Re: Dilemma: Carrera 4S or Turbo - please help

Gnil:

Do you like the better the red stripe or the wing

Porsche-Jeck:

"Something different" = Carrera 4S

"Something really different" = TT Smiley

Rossi, there is a lot of thinking going on here, and I would be one of the worst offenders, but sometimes all this thinking takes us away from the basic issues. So, to make the decision easier, I would recommend limiting the list of factors to the two where these cars really are different:

- Looks

- Price

Looks, do you have a preference? I think you do, and that is not going to change so go with your heart.

As far as Price, well, that's your call and you get what you pay for so don't over-analyse. You know your comfort level and if it should even be an issue.

All other aspects are comparable, you just get more of it in the TT.

No one knows what will happen down the line with VW and the 991 so it's hard to plan for every possible scenario. It's like never buying a computer or iPod becaus you just know that the next one will be better. Actually, in this case, we don't even know for sure that "the next one will be better". Having a crystal ball would be great but somehow, I feel that it would take some of the fun out of it.

But for sure, drive them both.

--

Slow In, Fast Out

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Dec 15, 2009 7:19:02 PM

artur777: Senior; Loc: Europe , Russia; Posts: 774, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 8, 2008; Reply to: FFaust

Re: Dilemma: Carrera 4S or Turbo - please help

KresoF1

why did you advise him to opt for sport seats, but not for standard ones (the only with ventilation) and adaptive sport seats (with more features)?

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Dec 16, 2009 7:01:24 AM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: artur777

Re: Dilemma: Carrera 4S or Turbo - please help

artur777:

KresoF1

why did you advise him to opt for sport seats, but not for standard ones (the only with ventilation) and adaptive sport seats (with more features)?

Because standard seats are not supportive enough for dynamic driving on curvy road. Adaptive ones are strange IMHO. They are good but, IMHO not worth the extra price.

Sport seats are on the other hand just perfect IMO. They are supportive enogh-even for dynamic driving and offer great long distance comfort. And they are second lightest choice after optional Bucket seats.

Both standard electric seats and Adaptive seats weight way more then Sport seats.

It may be a personal thing-BUT, I do not like electric seat adjustment(and memory thing) for true sportscar. I know, I am pretty subjective here...

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Dec 16, 2009 7:11:52 AM

Gnil: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 14171, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2005; Reply to: FFaust

Re: Dilemma: Carrera 4S or Turbo - please help

FFaust:

. So, to make the decision easier, I would recommend limiting the list of factors to the two where these cars really are different:

- Looks

- Price

Looks, do you have a preference? I think you do, and that is not going to change so go with your heart.

As far as Price, well, that's your call and you get what you pay for so don't over-analyse. You know your comfort level and if it should even be an issue.

All other aspects are comparable, you just get more of it in the TT.

I agree. These are your main choices. And I also think there is one look you like better then the other, and as FFaust said: this will not change .

So looks ? or performance ? ..and price

--

997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

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Dec 16, 2009 8:21:52 AM

artur777: Senior; Loc: Europe , Russia; Posts: 774, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 8, 2008; Reply to: Gnil

Re: Dilemma: Carrera 4S or Turbo - please help

But sport seats doesn't have ventilation and not all electric regulations - its not good for long voyages...

besides - standard seats and sport seats - at the picture in configurator the difference in the side support is tiny.

the weight is an issue - I agree...

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Dec 16, 2009 9:10:54 AM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: artur777

Re: Dilemma: Carrera 4S or Turbo - please help

Sports seats are somehow thinner and you can sit deeper in them and they can hold you more even if the side support is not much greater. They also make you feel more connected during a drive.

Two things I didn't like about sports seats is the lack of the ventilation option (which for the Mediterranean climate is crucial for leather seats) and the plastic rear cover which I find thick and ugly.

To save weight my standard seats are not fully electric. No need to be, because the back rest is electric anyway and the height and back-forth are very easily adjustable manually.

--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

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Dec 16, 2009 4:23:50 PM

artur777: Senior; Loc: Europe , Russia; Posts: 774, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 8, 2008; Reply to: reginos

Re: Dilemma: Carrera 4S or Turbo - please help

how did you managed to opt for such standard seats with them being only partly electric?

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Dec 16, 2009 5:05:15 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Rossi

Re: Dilemma: Carrera 4S or Turbo - please help

$40,000 difference? Smiley

OMG, that is hard to justify considering the many visual similarities. Smiley

--

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Dec 16, 2009 6:04:03 PM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: artur777

Re: Dilemma: Carrera 4S or Turbo - please help

artur777:

how did you managed to opt for such standard seats with them being only partly electric?

He owns 997.2 Carrera S were standard seats are manual. On 997.2 Turbo standard seats are electric.

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Dec 16, 2009 6:26:29 PM

FFaust: Senior; Loc: Toronto'ish , Canada; Posts: 736, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 15, 2009; Reply to: reginos

Re: Dilemma: Carrera 4S or Turbo - please help

reginos:

To save weight my standard seats are not fully electric. No need to be, because the back rest is electric anyway and the height and back-forth are very easily adjustable manually.

And also, how often do you need to adjust these anyway? Unless a few drivers share the car, there is no reason to change the setup once you have it figured out.

The only possible advantage to electric fore-and-aft is that you can get finer position tuning but the notches are pretty close, so it's not an issue.

For myself, in typical Type-A personality, electric takes too long to adjust; with manual, you pull, you slide, and you're done Smiley

--

Slow In, Fast Out

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Dec 16, 2009 6:53:53 PM

FFaust: Senior; Loc: Toronto'ish , Canada; Posts: 736, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 15, 2009; Reply to: nberry

Re: Dilemma: Carrera 4S or Turbo - please help

nberry:

$40,000 difference?

OMG, that is hard to justify considering the many visual similarities.

Now let's see, with 40,000 Euros (?), you could buy a nice Boxter for Wifey... Smiley

--

Slow In, Fast Out

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Dec 17, 2009 5:52:29 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12680, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: FFaust

Re: Dilemma: Carrera 4S or Turbo - please help

FFaust:

nberry:

$40,000 difference?

OMG, that is hard to justify considering the many visual similarities.

Now let's see, with 40,000 Euros (?), you could buy a nice Boxter for Wifey...

Yep, price difference is Euro, not USD. Unfortunately. Smiley

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

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Dec 17, 2009 6:31:30 PM

Wonderbar: Rennteam Pro; Loc: usa , France; Posts: 2719, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 31, 2005; Reply to: Rossi

Re: Dilemma: Carrera 4S or Turbo - please help

Go for the Turbo. If not, you will ALWAYS MISS THE POWER. If price is a factor, wait six months or a year and you can pick up a great used one for 20,000Euro less than a new one.

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Dec 17, 2009 6:48:06 PM

Webtool2: Newbie; Loc: Toronto , Canada; Posts: 5, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 17, 2009; Reply to: Wonderbar

Re: Dilemma: Carrera 4S or Turbo - please help

Wonderbar:

Go for the Turbo. If not, you will ALWAYS MISS THE POWER. If price is a factor, wait six months or a year and you can pick up a great used one for 20,000Euro less than a new one.

Gotta agree, once you've experienced the mind blowing rush of the turbo, every else is just... 'everything else'. Last time I drove an NA 997 it was nice but all I could think of was 'where's the power?

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Dec 17, 2009 6:54:41 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: nberry

Re: Dilemma: Carrera 4S or Turbo - please help

nberry:

$40,000 difference?

OMG, that is hard to justify considering the many visual similarities.

Visual similarities? It's the same with all German brands.

Just 2 examples:

Mercedes C63, EUR 35.000 more than C200

BMW M3, EUR 37.000 more than 318i

So what's so unusual with Porsche?

--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

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Dec 18, 2009 2:16:28 PM

JoeRockhead: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Topside , Monaco; Posts: 8033, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 17, 2007; Reply to: reginos

Re: Dilemma: Carrera 4S or Turbo - please help

I was debating this myself a while back. The TT power will just be a novelty that you can enjoy once in a while. I prefer NA myself... also I think the C2S will give you all the power you need in a cleaner package. And, you'll save 40K.

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Dec 18, 2009 2:39:58 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: JoeRockhead

Re: Dilemma: Carrera 4S or Turbo - please help

The problem with very powerful cars is that if you travel most of the time at normal speeds (say between 130-150 km/h) that traffic and police normally allow, they feel very unpleasant because they hardly exceed tickover.

Even in the C2S with PDK at Normal mode and gear 7, the engine feels very empty at those speeds. The Turbo is worse in that respect.

Moreover, optically the Carrera blends with the traffic better than the more extravagant Turbo body. Very understated and minimal, yet a defining and pure shape.

IMO for daily use the best Porsche buys are from the Carrera range. However, if someone wants a car for weekends, sunny days and occasional fast drives then the GT3 is more stimulating and cheaper than the Turbo.

--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

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Dec 18, 2009 2:44:34 PM

Pentium: Rennteam Master; Loc: Earth , Romania; Posts: 3054, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 27, 2003; Reply to: reginos

Re: Dilemma: Carrera 4S or Turbo - please help

100% agree with reginos! Smiley

--
There is no try. Just do.

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Dec 18, 2009 2:56:31 PM

Gnil: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 14171, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2005; Reply to: reginos

Re: Dilemma: Carrera 4S or Turbo - please help

reginos:

However, if someone wants a car for weekends, sunny days and occasional fast drives then the GT3 is more stimulating and cheaper than the Turbo.

I had the exact same thaugh after my 997.2 Turbo test

--

997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

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Dec 18, 2009 2:59:31 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21149, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: Pentium

Re: Dilemma: Carrera 4S or Turbo - please help

HI Rossi,

I think that the most important deciding factor is that you are aready sure that you want it to have AWD and PDK, so with that in mind then that IMO would leave the997TT as the best option. if you wanted a manual and no preference in AWD-RWD I would of gone for a 997S-powerkit (my personal preferences after the GT3), which gives a whole different car than the 997TT, with a lot of pros over the 997TT like fun factor, agility, engine character, sound, handling, etc... but if you want AWD-PDK then IMO the 997TT is mostly all advantages comared to the C4S-PDK, except for price, so if you can afford the 997TT I would go for it. Just my two cents.

However there is one important aspect I'm not clear on, what will you use the car for mostly? highway vs roads, daily driver vs weekend car, cruising vs harder driving, etc?

--

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Dec 18, 2009 6:28:13 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12680, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: Dilemma: Carrera 4S or Turbo - please help

Carlos from Spain:

However there is one important aspect I'm not clear on, what will you use the car for mostly? highway vs roads, daily driver vs weekend car, cruising vs harder driving, etc?

Carlos, car won't be used daily but from time to time and not only at the weekends. Milage will be in the 5 to 10k a year I guess. Mostly normal roads and not that much highway driving. More cruising than harder driving and no track use of course.

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

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Dec 18, 2009 7:52:28 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21149, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: Rossi

Re: Dilemma: Carrera 4S or Turbo - please help

In that case you won't be using that much the extra HP of the Turbo, but all in all I would choose the Turbo since you will be keeping it for a while and also I think the Turbvo with PDK is going to be a more special car given all the rave reviews the Turbo and PDK combination is getting. What tough choices life presents us

--

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Dec 19, 2009 8:56:54 AM

Gnil: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 14171, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2005; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: Dilemma: Carrera 4S or Turbo - please help

Carlos from Spain:

In that case you won't be using that much the extra HP of the Turbo, but all in all I would choose the Turbo since you will be keeping it for a while and also I think the Turbvo with PDK is going to be a more special car given all the rave reviews the Turbo and PDK combination is getting. What tough choices life presents us

But if you do not make the full usage of the power on the TT, there is no point to buy it. It is just a comfortable GT if you drive it at speed limits. So , to pay the extra 40'000 Euro to just 'know' you' ve got a supercar, and use it to cruise, is a bit ridiculous ( unless money is not a matter at all )

To me it seems more that you really like the red stripe and you do not need the extra power. Then go for the 4S and option it with very special colors and interiors to make you happy each time you sit in it.

--

997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

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Dec 19, 2009 10:10:46 AM

bluelines: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Argovia , Switzerland; Posts: 11655, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 29, 2005; Reply to: Gnil

Re: Dilemma: Carrera 4S or Turbo - please help

Gnil:

Carlos from Spain:

In that case you won't be using that much the extra HP of the Turbo, but all in all I would choose the Turbo since you will be keeping it for a while and also I think the Turbvo with PDK is going to be a more special car given all the rave reviews the Turbo and PDK combination is getting. What tough choices life presents us

But if you do not make the full usage of the power on the TT, there is no point to buy it. It is just a comfortable GT if you drive it at speed limits. So , to pay the extra 40'000 Euro to just 'know' you' ve got a supercar, and use it to cruise, is a bit ridiculous ( unless money is not a matter at all )

To me it seems more that you really like the red stripe and you do not need the extra power. Then go for the 4S and option it with very special colors and interiors to make you happy each time you sit in it.

+1 Smiley

--

987 Boxster S, Arctic Silver with 'Martini Racing' Livery, H&R Monotube Coil-Overs, H&R Anti Roll Bars, Strut Brace, FVD ECU, BMC Air Filter, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, Recaro Racing Shells, PSE.

997 Carrera 4S, Guards Red, Bilstein PSS10 Damptronic, H&R Anti Roll Bars, IPD Plenum, Dension Gateway 500, PSE.

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Jan 5, 2010 5:14:20 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: bluelines

Re: Dilemma: Carrera 4S or Turbo - please help

@Rossi, as usual, various Rennteamers have posted many insightful observations about the pros and cons of the C2S vs C4S vs TT choice etc.

All I would add is that it seems to me that you could make the wrong choice (for you) if you over-think this choice - let your gut tell you which car will please you the most. Just imagine yourself behind the wheel of them all (better still, drive them all) and just see which one 'feels right' and gives you the kind of pleasure you are looking for. Only you can know this.

--

RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

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Jan 5, 2010 10:00:25 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12680, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: Dilemma: Carrera 4S or Turbo - please help

easy_rider911:

@Rossi, as usual, various Rennteamers have posted many insightful observations about the pros and cons of the C2S vs C4S vs TT choice etc.

All I would add is that it seems to me that you could make the wrong choice (for you) if you over-think this choice - let your gut tell you which car will please you the most. Just imagine yourself behind the wheel of them all (better still, drive them all) and just see which one 'feels right' and gives you the kind of pleasure you are looking for. Only you can know this.

Thanks very much Easy. Smiley

I will testdrive the 997.2 Turbo next week and will then make my final decision. Currently the C4S is in the lead. Smiley

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

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Jan 6, 2010 4:37:19 AM

FFaust: Senior; Loc: Toronto'ish , Canada; Posts: 736, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 15, 2009; Reply to: Rossi

Re: Dilemma: Carrera 4S or Turbo - please help

Rossi:

Currently the C4S is in the lead.

Ha, I knew it Smiley

--

Slow In, Fast Out

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Jan 6, 2010 5:43:39 AM

Targa Tim: Expert; Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada , Canada; Posts: 1475, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 3, 2005; Reply to: FFaust

Re: Dilemma: Carrera 4S or Turbo - please help

Great choice on the C4S.

Two of my friends got the launch edition C4S PDK and they looks perfect. Really more than enough speed for the road. Not that you'll be racing with other cars, but a PDK C4S is easily faster than 99.9% of the cars on the public road.

The new PDK Turbo is really the all weather supercar for the road, faster than 99.99% of all the cars on the road. But I keep asking, do we really need that extra acceleration on the road even if money is not a factor...

On the track I prefer to have a NA engine car, and stick shift for fun (knowing that PDK will shift faster).

So for me, club coupe for regular road use, CTT for all weather use and moving stuffs, GT3RS for the track and Sunday drive. What a perfect collection....Sorry for going off topic, I got carried away....

--

Tim

2010 997.2 GT3RS, January build; 2008 Cayenne Turbo; 2006 911 Club Coupe #13; 2006 BMW 530xi

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Jan 20, 2010 10:16:41 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12680, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: FFaust

Re: Dilemma: Carrera 4S or Turbo - please help

FFaust:

Rossi:

Currently the C4S is in the lead.

Ha, I knew it

Well...

... after my testdrive of the new Turbo PDK I have to say, this car is seriously fast. Smiley

And suddenly the red stripe becomes not that importand anymore... Smiley

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

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Jan 20, 2010 10:59:09 PM

artur777: Senior; Loc: Europe , Russia; Posts: 774, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 8, 2008; Reply to: Rossi

Re: Dilemma: Carrera 4S or Turbo - please help

what are your impressions on Turbo PDK?

pls deliver:-)

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