Crown

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdRgoZSHZDE

--

At the weekend I drove an R8 V8 for couple of hours on mixed roads; city traffic, sea coast, 2 lane country road and on the highway.

The car was equipped with R-tronic. Last year I drove the R8 V8 in Lausits, Berlin, at Eurospeedway Race track. I like the car very much at that time but I wasn't sure how it would feel on normal roads with daily basis.

I must say that, it is one of the best cars I have ever driven including 911 Turbo and F430. Well, F430 is more emotional, the sound of that car is intoxicating but on daily basis, its running cost is too high and it attracts too much attention. I think R8 is the BEST DAILY SUPER CAR.

I still think that R8 is a better design; in terms of both handling and image, than 911. Turbo is a very fast car but there is not enough emotion in the car. Especially the 997.1 with tiptronic is like a Carrera 4S with NOS, IMO. The engine is in the wrong place, 5 speed gearbox is from Mercedes and there is no engine sound. My friends' 07 Turbo has FVD met. cats and rear muffler with a superchips software. That car is really FAST, and it is LOUD but it is not special, at least for me.  

R8 V8's handling, design, interior quality, feel, sound of the engine (well, you don't have the sound of Ferrari V8 but nevertheless, it sounds good), and general presence are just superb. It sits low on the road, it has very nice visibility and it has a very nice gearbox (actually I like the R-Tronic very much, it has a mechanical feeling, doesn't shift up at the red line. If you drive it like a manual, slightly lift off on gear changes, it is very smooth. It makes perfect rev matches on down shifts with a firm throttle response. Very very nice)

Only annoying thing was the hood in the front that is too small; even smaller than 997 4S/Turbo.

In this video, I didn't surprise that R8 holds on very good with more powerful cars. And V10? I think, the car in the video had mechanical failure or some sorts of problem.

R8 V8 is my next target car once I sold my TTS.

--
 

ONUR

09 Audi TTS Ibis

07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)

pride355:

At the weekend I drove an R8 V8 for couple of hours on mixed roads; city traffic, sea coast, 2 lane country road and on the highway.

Great comment. Which suspension did it have (std. or adaptive dampers)?

Ferdie:

pride355:

At the weekend I drove an R8 V8 for couple of hours on mixed roads; city traffic, sea coast, 2 lane country road and on the highway.

 

Great comment. Which suspension did it have (std. or adaptive dampers)?

It had adaptive dampers with 19" wheels. It had a firm ride, but more comfortable than my 997.1 Carrera S coupe which had -20 mm sports chassie, much much comfortable. I played the damper settings, but as on my TTS, I haven't felt much difference between the 2 settings tell you the truth.

ONUR

09 Audi TTS Ibis

07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)

The most important thing is that you don't feel much of the 4WD system.

Maybe it is the torsen diff, but the car behaves and drive like a RWD. It oversteers, holds the line and on corners, once you push the car, instead of understeer, R8's neutral handling turns into oversteer. Very very nice.

I wish my TTS had this kind of handling character. However, because of haldex diff. TTS first want to push its nose in a corner; then you FEEL that the front sends the power to rear, and then steers into the corner. Both are Quattro but they behave very differently.

ONUR

09 Audi TTS Ibis

07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)

Ferdie:

pride355:

At the weekend I drove an R8 V8 for couple of hours on mixed roads; city traffic, sea coast, 2 lane country road and on the highway.

 

Great comment. 

Thank you

ONUR

09 Audi TTS Ibis

07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)

pride355:

The most important thing is that you don't feel much of the 4WD system.

Maybe it is the torsen diff, but the car behaves and drive like a RWD. It oversteers, holds the line and on corners, once you push the car, instead of understeer, R8's neutral handling turns into oversteer. Very very nice.

I wish my TTS had this kind of handling character. However, because of haldex diff. TTS first want to push its nose in a corner; then you FEEL that the front sends the power to rear, and then steers into the corner. Both are Quattro but they behave very differently.

Thank you for the write-up Onur

But doesn't the R8 use the same viscous coupling as the Gallardo?:

"With an axle load distribution of 44:56 in favour of the rear, the weight balance of the mid-engine R8 has been perfected. The viscous coupling correspondingly diverts between 10 and 35 per cent of the propulsive power to the front wheels (the viscous coupling transmits a maximum of 160 Nm at a speed difference of 100 rpm). This assures maximum traction, but also preserves the typically agile handling of a mid-engine sports car.

The asymmetric limited-slip differential on the rear axle makes a further contribution towards maintaining balanced handling of the Audi R8. The locking ratio is 25 per cent when accelerating and 45 per cent when coasting. In conjunction with ingenious axle kinematics, this avoids abrupt load reversal reactions, for instance if you switch from accelerating to braking while cornering."

www.audi.co.uk/new-cars/r8/r8/r8-with-quattro.html

10 PRINT "997.2 Carrera S rules"

20 GOTO 10

30 RUN

temm:

pride355:

The most important thing is that you don't feel much of the 4WD system.

Maybe it is the torsen diff, but the car behaves and drive like a RWD. It oversteers, holds the line and on corners, once you push the car, instead of understeer, R8's neutral handling turns into oversteer. Very very nice.

I wish my TTS had this kind of handling character. However, because of haldex diff. TTS first want to push its nose in a corner; then you FEEL that the front sends the power to rear, and then steers into the corner. Both are Quattro but they behave very differently.

 

Thank you for the write-up Onur

But doesn't the R8 use the same viscous coupling as the Gallardo?:

"With an axle load distribution of 44:56 in favour of the rear, the weight balance of the mid-engine R8 has been perfected. The viscous coupling correspondingly diverts between 10 and 35 per cent of the propulsive power to the front wheels (the viscous coupling transmits a maximum of 160 Nm at a speed difference of 100 rpm). This assures maximum traction, but also preserves the typically agile handling of a mid-engine sports car.

The asymmetric limited-slip differential on the rear axle makes a further contribution towards maintaining balanced handling of the Audi R8. The locking ratio is 25 per cent when accelerating and 45 per cent when coasting. In conjunction with ingenious axle kinematics, this avoids abrupt load reversal reactions, for instance if you switch from accelerating to braking while cornering."

www.audi.co.uk/new-cars/r8/r8/r8-with-quattro.html

Probably, Gallardo and R8 both use the same viscous coupling, but I haven't driven a Gallardo yet so can't comment how it feels on the road. My point was R8 quattro system is very different than TTS quattro system and it is very noticeable on the road.

ONUR

09 Audi TTS Ibis

07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)

Ok, thank you for the clarification.

Two things strike me about this video:

1. How unstable/nervous the Gallardo seems to be, he has to fight it the whole time.

2. How well the R8 4.2 is able to keep up with the Gallardo and GT-R, it's not that far behind.

10 PRINT "997.2 Carrera S rules"

20 GOTO 10

30 RUN

temm:

Ok, thank you for the clarification.

 

Two things strike me about this video:

1. How unstable/nervous the Gallardo seems to be, he has to fight it the whole time.

2. How well the R8 4.2 is able to keep up with the Gallardo and GT-R, it's not that far behind.

1) Don't forget, this is a japanese show, guess which car got the worst driver? 

2) that's indeed nice, but maybe just a consequence of the GT-R stuck behind the not-so-well driven Gallardo.

pride355:

Probably, Gallardo and R8 both use the same viscous coupling, but I haven't driven a Gallardo yet so can't comment how it feels on the road. My point was R8 quattro system is very different than TTS quattro system and it is very noticeable on the road.

Almost all front-engined AWD cars primarily drive the front axle and divert power to the rear if necessary. Even Audi´s rear-biased torque split on the front-engined models shows only limited effect since the load-changes under acceleration will put more pressure on the rear axle. On the GT-R, the front drive is diverted at the rear axle as on the rear- and midengined cars.

It is interesting to hear though that Audi did a better job with suspension tuning than Lamborghini (SportAuto articles back that up), I assume that´s due to more development ressources and less so to the capabilities.

So, from a marketing perspective, the R8 probably contributed the most to the quattro badge since Audi departed from the rallye championship.

Thanks for the very clear and concise comments.

One point that surprised me is your liking of the R-tronic transmission because all magazines and contributors here like to criticize it a lot.  It's good to hear the opposite view and I believe you

Eunice:

1) Don't forget, this is a japanese show, guess which car got the worst driver? 

2) that's indeed nice, but maybe just a consequence of the GT-R stuck behind the not-so-well driven Gallardo.

1) The GT-R. The best driver (the one who always wins) was in the Gallardo and the LeMans winner (overall) drove the R8. The former Formula Nippon champion drove the R8 V10. Usually, they let the SuperGT champion drive the Lamborghinis but he wasn't there.

2) Your boy Horst tested 5 different Gallardos and the best he could do was a 7:52 on the Nurburgring. That's 2 seconds slower than the M3 CSL. But hey, it's a GERMAN magazine, right? and now the obligatory ironic smiley

reginos:

Thanks for the very clear and concise comments.

One point that surprised me is your liking of the R-tronic transmission because all magazines and contributors here like to criticize it a lot.  It's good to hear the opposite view and I believe you

Most of the magazine testers don't like automated manuals. However, I had owned 2 M3s with SMGII gearbox for more than 2 years. I love this technology. I love to have bang bang fast upshifts when I'm in the mood. I don't have special love for the 3.pedal and I don't feel being connected to the car if I don't press the clutch pedal.

These automated manuals have mechanical feel and if you treat them as a manual without using a clutch, they are very predictable. If you are driving a manual car for example,  and want to up shift around 3000-4000 rpm, you let go the throttle, do the shifting and then put your foot on the throttle. However, these people who loves manual cars but hate this type of transmissions, doesn't lift of the throttle on mid range upshifts on automated manual cars and then complain about rough and head snapping shifts. All you have to do is to treat it like a manual.

It is very comfortable, shifts faster than the fastest man, makes perfect rev matches on the downshifts, you don't have to leave your hands off the steering wheel, you don't have to fight with the 3. pedal and it is more effeciant. Still people criticise heavily these gearboxes. 

--
 

ONUR

09 Audi TTS Ibis

07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)

I wouldn't touch a clutch pedal myself again, unless that's the only car available.

Acceptance of manumatics amongst enthusiasts is rather slower than to the rest of car owners/users. Remember that it took some time for assisted brakes, power steering and even fuel injection to become accepted by car fans.

Am i wrong or did the GT-R already had problems the last couple of corners ?- it seems that the rev didn't go higher than 3500 and the driver was getting excited....a couple more corners and the R8 4.2 would have passed.....wonder if this was the ECU saying No-more only after a couple of laps....This would be in line with a colleague racing a Z06 saying he has never seen a GTR going longer than a couple of laps. pitty as it seems to be the easiest car to drive fast....

BjoernB:

Am i wrong or did the GT-R already had problems the last couple of corners ?- it seems that the rev didn't go higher than 3500 and the driver was getting excited....a couple more corners and the R8 4.2 would have passed.....wonder if this was the ECU saying No-more only after a couple of laps....This would be in line with a colleague racing a Z06 saying he has never seen a GTR going longer than a couple of laps. pitty as it seems to be the easiest car to drive fast....

I guess GT-R tranny had failure in the last lap so the car doesn't rev more than 3500 rpm and the reason should be told in the video, but unfortunately in japannese since there was also a "3500 rpm sign" on the screen.

ONUR

09 Audi TTS Ibis

07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)

that is really a no-go - even if you do not track yr car....

Notice the oversteer after downshifting to 3rd gear just before the corner, at 5:43.

The driver lock the wheels on the downshift I guess which would not happen with an R-Tronic car

ONUR

09 Audi TTS Ibis

07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)

pride355:

reginos:

Thanks for the very clear and concise comments.

One point that surprised me is your liking of the R-tronic transmission because all magazines and contributors here like to criticize it a lot.  It's good to hear the opposite view and I believe you

Most of the magazine testers don't like automated manuals. However, I had owned 2 M3s with SMGII gearbox for more than 2 years. I love this technology. I love to have bang bang fast upshifts when I'm in the mood. I don't have special love for the 3.pedal and I don't feel being connected to the car if I don't press the clutch pedal.

These automated manuals have mechanical feel and if you treat them as a manual without using a clutch, they are very predictable. If you are driving a manual car for example,  and want to up shift around 3000-4000 rpm, you let go the throttle, do the shifting and then put your foot on the throttle. However, these people who loves manual cars but hate this type of transmissions, doesn't lift of the throttle on mid range upshifts on automated manual cars and then complain about rough and head snapping shifts. All you have to do is to treat it like a manual.

It is very comfortable, shifts faster than the fastest man, makes perfect rev matches on the downshifts, you don't have to leave your hands off the steering wheel, you don't have to fight with the 3. pedal and it is more effeciant. Still people criticise heavily these gearboxes. 

 

 

Ok, I respect your opinion.
 

BUT, you are wrong regarding R Tronic or any sequential manual. This technology(sequential manuals) is officially dead. Thank God for that.

Why? Long explanation-I will try to be as short as possible.

First, I have pretty good experience with R8. R Tronic is not very brilliant gearbox IMHO. It is doing some things totally wrong IMO. Auto mode is totally useless. Normal manual mode is not very fast and gearshifits executions are far from perfection. Sport mode is better but, throttle bips on downshifts are sometimes little bit too agressive(try PDK in Sport mode for example-far, far better). Jerkiness? Of course! Yes, you can avoid it with throttle modulation on upshifts. BUT, gearchanges are not very fast then.

Only someone who can not(or to be honest do not know how to) drive proper manual can choose R8 with R Tronic. R8 is far better car as manual as I fully agree with UK press here. German press is also not impressed at all with R Tronic.

R8 is still and fantastic car. IMHO last truly impressive manual midengine sportscar. You may choose R Tronic version-just despite all R8 greatness-I would never ever go for sequential manual again.

Do not forget that biggest advocate of sequential manuals was Ferrari and all new models will feature DCTs. Porsche and Mclaren are also in DCT club. Mercedes SLS AMG also. IMO PDK in 997.2 Turbo or Cayman S is light year better then R Tronic in R8. That is my subjective opinion.

KresoF1:

Ok, I respect your opinion.
 BUT, you are wrong regarding R Tronic or any sequential manual. This technology(sequential manuals) is officially dead. Thank God for that.

Why? Long explanation-I will try to be as short as possible.

First, I have pretty good experience with R8. R Tronic is not very brilliant gearbox IMHO. It is doing some things totally wrong IMO. Auto mode is totally useless. Normal manual mode is not very fast and gearshifits executions are far from perfection. Sport mode is better but, throttle bips on downshifts are sometimes little bit too agressive(try PDK in Sport mode for example-far, far better). Jerkiness? Of course! Yes, you can avoid it with throttle modulation on upshifts. BUT, gearchanges are not very fast then.

 Only someone who can not(or to be honest do not know how to) drive proper manual can choose R8 with R Tronic. R8 is far better car as manual as I fully agree with UK press here. German press is also not impressed at all with R Tronic.

R8 is still and fantastic car. IMHO last truly impressive manual midengine sportscar. You may choose R Tronic version-just despite all R8 greatness-I would never ever go for sequential manual again.

 Do not forget that biggest advocate of sequential manuals was Ferrari and all new models will feature DCTs. Porsche and Mclaren are also in DCT club. Mercedes SLS AMG also. IMO PDK in 997.2 Turbo or Cayman S is light year better then R Tronic in R8. That is my subjective opinion.

I drove the car in manual and sport mode, all the time.
 

I haven't driven 997.2 PDK; unfortunately.

Only DSG box I have driven is my TTS's S-tronic which is more like an auto.

I read that 458 has a wonderful double clutch gearbox. I'm sure about it and would like to try.

I would also try the superfast box of Scuderia; but unfortunately I haven't driven that one, too.

Nevertheless, I like the R-tronic box from R8. I can live with it happily ever after

ONUR

09 Audi TTS Ibis

07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)

 Guys, as some of you know, i bought a GTR that needed a gearbox a month ago, i didnt replace the transmission, i opened it, repaired and upgraded it, now i have a tranny that can hold up to 850HP. it was completed a week ago, and i have been driving the car this week its in perfect condition. and those of you who know me know im not biased towards a specific brand. i call apples apples.

i just want to share my impression on the GTR, after jumping out of the scud, the GTR really really impressed me, it doesnt have the sensations, the passion, the sound and all the emotions of the ferrari, but its a surgical precision tool as far as driving is concerned; it has something, a secret somewhere in its awd system, its sick! the gear box is stunning and IMO far more efficient than the porsche pdk, it has zero, literally zero torque loss, turbo lag is non existant. on a twisty road nothing i have ever driven goes as fast or even close... one other thing i like is the Cobb access port, its a great toy. i know some of you will flame me for this, but that's my point of view for this car, its a bang for the buck, and for me a true masterpiece. even though the 458 is due in april, i will keep the GTR, i simply love it.

the outcome of this race doesnt surprise me, and with a better driver the gtr will be in front of the 560 IMO

--
09 Ferrari 430 Scuderia

dhayek:

 Guys, as some of you know, i bought a GTR that needed a gearbox a month ago, i didnt replace the transmission, i opened it, repaired and upgraded it, now i have a tranny that can hold up to 850HP. it was completed a week ago, and i have been driving the car this week its in perfect condition. and those of you who know me know im not biased towards a specific brand. i call apples apples.

i just want to share my impression on the GTR, after jumping out of the scud, the GTR really really impressed me, it doesnt have the sensations, the passion, the sound and all the emotions of the ferrari, but its a surgical precision tool as far as driving is concerned; it has something, a secret somewhere in its awd system, its sick! the gear box is stunning and IMO far more efficient than the porsche pdk, it has zero, literally zero torque loss, turbo lag is non existant. on a twisty road nothing i have ever driven goes as fast or even close... one other thing i like is the Cobb access port, its a great toy. i know some of you will flame me for this, but that's my point of view for this car, its a bang for the buck, and for me a true masterpiece. even though the 458 is due in april, i will keep the GTR, i simply love it.

the outcome of this race doesnt surprise me, and with a better driver the gtr will be in front of the 560 IMO

 

Dimitri,

I fully respect your opinion although I do not agree with you here.

After two pretty long driving sessions in GT-R(one lasted three days) I still can not prise that car. I respect its technical achievments a lot but, I can not love this car at all.

Since I had a chance to try 997.2 Turbo PDK few days ago I can say that gearbox in new Turbo is far, far better then the one in GT-R.

For me GT-R is something like Brigitta Bugatti-perfect plastic h..ker for occasional f.ck, nothing more or nothing less.

BTW, my friend who own(and is not impressed with it as you are) GT-R thinks that pricewise it is amazing value.  I agree with him. For the money GT-R is excellent car.

 Kreso, maybe its the nature of the roads that give us different opinions, over here in lebanon its all about twisty B roads, no autobahns like europe. and on these roads the gtr is a killer

i didnt try the new turbo pdk but compared to the carrera s pdk i drove, i found it superior since the pdk still had a microsecond torque cut.  do you agree about the lack of turbo lag in the gtr? and the awd behaviour on curves exit? what bothered you in the gtr?

lol @ brigitta bugatti... for me i would say that the gtr is the h...ker in the club that is the less pretty but F.ucks better than all the rest

dhayek:

 Kreso, maybe its the nature of the roads that give us different opinions, over here in lebanon its all about twisty B roads, no autobahns like europe. and on these roads the gtr is a killer

i didnt try the new turbo pdk but compared to the carrera s pdk i drove, i found it superior since the pdk still had a microsecond torque cut.  do you agree about the lack of turbo lag in the gtr? and the awd behaviour on curves exit? what bothered you in the gtr?

lol @ brigitta bugatti... for me i would say that the gtr is the h...ker in the club that is the less pretty but F.ucks better than all the rest

Lack of lag in GT-R is due to additional pressure from turbos-already known DCTs trick. Same thing is in new 997.2 Turbo PDK. Just, for me new Turbo is the car that I will get.

GT-R is not mature car at all-that bothers me. I am with 38 years little bit too old for this kind of toy car.

Try your GT-R on very wet curvy road-you will find out that even that mighty AWD can have some troubles...

 i understand what you say about the image of the car not being matured and you are right about it. also the lack of lag comes from the place where they put the turbo's, directly on the manifold. i will try the new 911 turbo when it reaches beirut in a couple of weeks and let you know. did you try one fitted with a cobb access port?

http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?s=09e15929fe39ae9aef4444f77926fd59&showtopic=36480

I share similar sentiments about the GT-R as Angus Mackenzie and dhayek. Coming from a modified 996 GT2 and GT3 I did not expect to be as satisfied with my GT-R as I am. It's surprisely a great DD. Frankly, I'm glad I checked it out for myself and not sold by the negative reviews from various people. I've not had any problems and have the new WGDC Cobb map and minor exhaust mods(kept original catback exhaust). Less than $4500 installed and as fast as my GT700 GT2 in qtr. (hi 10's, 130+ traps). Suspension and brakes are also fine stock. What's not to like-especially for the $.