CloseIt is a clean shape and a very safe, inoffensive and conservative design. A bigger A4 really.
I cannot see how someone will be strongly attracted to this car on looks alone.
IMO now that BMW are finding some of their old charisma in their styling, Audi must try much much harder.
Very disappointed because I wanted to like this car. It leaves me very cold
--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts
Dec 1, 2009 9:36:10 PM
Dec 1, 2009 10:01:44 PM
Dec 1, 2009 10:11:37 PM
KresoF1:
Gents,
I do not understand you at all.
Everybody here on rennteam(ok, with few exeptions) did not like Panamera too much. Personally, I think that Pana is interesting and brave design from Porsche.
Then, new Mercedes E-class did not get any fans here. IMHO, it is not very best looking car-BUT, far from beign plain ugly as some members here claimed.
New Audis did not get any fans here as well. New A8 is in the same boat.
SO, BMW is with 7 series and new 5 series new design leader?? Hmm...
I do not think so. 7 series and 5 series do NOT look very similar to you? OK, I guess...
No one makes the perfect sport sedan yet :)
Mine would probable be based current gen S8 with the current RS6 engine, with the the S8 interior but with Panamera's gauges and the first gen BMW iDrive (imo most logical and best there is for no look operation), add handling from the Panamera, seats from AMG E63, and the trunk space from the 1st gen Bangle 7. And 5 seats.
Whoopsy:
Mine would probable be based current gen S8 with the current RS6 engine, with the the S8 interior but with Panamera's gauges and the first gen BMW iDrive (imo most logical and best there is for no look operation)
Errh, the first-gen iDrive? I think you must be the only person, apart from its creator, who really liked it I found the concept intriguing, less so its daily usability.
Yes first gen, the one without all the extra buttons. I have used all 3, first one without buttons, second gen with the menu button and the current 3rd gen.
When I bought my 02 745i, the iDrive was extremely intuitive and felt just like second nature, I learned all the functions within an hr without the help of the user manual just by feeling and touching it. My wife who can't operate the home theater without my help spent a couple hrs with the manual inside the car and mastered it. Seriously, spent a few moments with the owners manual and the iDrive is definitely not hard at all, all the trashing from Journalists initially was because those guys are too proud to open up the manual to familiar themselves with the car, I bet those guys can't even use a automatic climate control, they can only do rotary switches.
Audi's MMI is pretty close, the extra buttons for direct access is nice, but not a must. But a big minus for the new A8 is the knob has moved out of range for a normal driving position while the iDrive and the old MMI knob is exactly where one's hands fall naturally.
MB is quite a distant 3rd with it's Command system, the buttons are too far and small to operate safely.
Lexus' touch screen is worst, all those greasy fingerprints on the screen pretty much ruin the screen and makes it virtually unreadable with the reflections. Plus, Lexus locks out the touch screen during driving which makes it even more useless.
Porsche's new PCM is quite nice, because all the functions are STILL accessible like before with the rotary knob without ever touching the 'touch screen'.
WIth the iDrive, navigation alphabets input can be done safely while driving and with the screen so big and higher up, my eyes are still looking AT the road while checking the display for the correct letters, Audi's screen is a bit smaller and harder to read.
MKSGR:
Just watched the promo video on the Audi web site. I have to say that the car looks much better in this video than on the above pictures. Let's wait how it looks in real life
I agree.The appeal will grow up in the live scenes
--
Dedi La vita è troppo corta per non guidare italiano.....
The problem with Audi and BMW sedans is their conservative insistence on a single and overwhelmingly cloned style - the different length of sausage someone mentioned! My guess is that this is driven by lazy marketing departments who think that they will lose sales if people get confused by having more distinctive styles for each model. And the single biggest source of the cloned look, even if it is a cliche, is the single grille style.
Why do I not mention M-B? Because they seem to have been equally insistent to keep at least two different styles of grille in play - the traditional M-B sedan grille and the "sports" grille, now refreshed with the SLS. And to me this is why M-B seem to be avoiding some of the clone styling.... their cars have at least some distinctive look to them. As it happens I don't like most of the Mercedes styling, but at least they are a bit different from each other so there is a greater chance to find one you like (actually I do like the C-class....)
Present: 2005 STi, 2002 M Coupe
Future: 2010 Cayman S - pending order; 2010 Audi S5 - on order
Whoopsy:
When I bought my 02 745i, the iDrive was extremely intuitive and felt just like second nature, I learned all the functions within an hr without the help of the user manual just by feeling and touching it. [...] all the trashing from Journalists initially was because those guys are too proud to open up the manual to familiar themselves with the car
So you are saying those journalists are not as smart as you, eh? 
In all seriousness, maybe it was a bit too early for the majority of the customer group. It surprises me that you prefer the first-gen version without menu buttons over the succeeding ones.
Whoopsy:
Audi's MMI is pretty close, the extra buttons for direct access is nice, but not a must. But a big minus for the new A8 is the knob has moved out of range for a normal driving position while the iDrive and the old MMI knob is exactly where one's hands fall naturally.
I found Audi´s MMI concept more appealing in static use, in driving conditions the dynamic buttons around the controller demand quite a bit of attention.
Ferdie:. It surprises me that you prefer the first-gen version without menu buttons over the succeeding ones.
In city driving I mostly drive with my left hand and my right hand is just resting on the iDrive controller. With all the functions controlled by a single knob without buttons I don't need to move my hand at all to get to what I need. For the MMI interface I need to physically move my hand to get to all the buttons around it. call me LAZY!!! :)
BMW's ergonomics on the first gen iDrive is perfect, with subsequent generations they dumb it down more and more by adding buttons and while the buttons are all clustered around the knob, the hand needs to be repositioned to get to them.
Most of the extra functions buried are only set once and never to be touched like units, airvent volume, distributions, seat heater mapping, extra function on steering wheel usage, etc. About the only frequent usage of the knob is the input of destinations to the navi system.
new pics
http://www.autoblog.it/galleria/big/audi-a8-my-2010/1
new s8 spy
http://spyshots.nl/SpyShots/Productiemodel_nieuwe_Audi_S8_gesnapt
SciFrog:
The old iDrive from BMW was a joke. Five actions to switch from radio to navigation, that was one click in the Audi MMI...
I also like the idea of less button, but the way around it is touchscreen, not the "I can do it all" of the iDrive.
How often do you change from radio to navigation? The big screen is split, after setting the navigation input the map screen can be assigned to the right while the left side main screen can be set to the radio/CD/Sat screen. The phone function can be access with the separate hideaway keypad without touching the iDrive.
It's like putting on a dress shirt, yes it takes a while to button up all the buttons in front, but how often do you take off the shirt and put it back on in a day? Audi's MMI buttons are like a dress shirt with fake buttons and a hidden zipper, yes it's quicker to put on a shirt but it's not necessary.
Touch screen means the limited screen real estate has to be devoted to on-screen buttons, and these needs to be big enough for fingers further reducing the usable size, another knock against touch screens like Lexus' or GM's is that they get locked up during driving, rendering it useless unless the car is standing still. Engineers knows touch screens requires extra attention to operate because of lack of physical feedback, that's why they lock them out during driving.
Whoopsy:
SciFrog:
The old iDrive from BMW was a joke. Five actions to switch from radio to navigation, that was one click in the Audi MMI...
I also like the idea of less button, but the way around it is touchscreen, not the "I can do it all" of the iDrive.
How often do you change from radio to navigation? The big screen is split, after setting the navigation input the map screen can be assigned to the right while the left side main screen can be set to the radio/CD/Sat screen. The phone function can be access with the separate hideaway keypad without touching the iDrive.
It's like putting on a dress shirt, yes it takes a while to button up all the buttons in front, but how often do you take off the shirt and put it back on in a day? Audi's MMI buttons are like a dress shirt with fake buttons and a hidden zipper, yes it's quicker to put on a shirt but it's not necessary.
Touch screen means the limited screen real estate has to be devoted to on-screen buttons, and these needs to be big enough for fingers further reducing the usable size, another knock against touch screens like Lexus' or GM's is that they get locked up during driving, rendering it useless unless the car is standing still. Engineers knows touch screens requires extra attention to operate because of lack of physical feedback, that's why they lock them out during driving.
The BWM I had rented did not have a split screen, so we needed to change all the time...
skazzy:
SciFrog:
Looks like in the flesh the new A8 will be stunning.
The real question is can the S8 match the E63-M5-RS6 in term of performance and driving feel?
you mean the 760 Li, S63 AMG?
No, I meant what I wrote. The S8 is supposed to be sportier than 7-S, so how close to the 5-E is my question...
Dec 4, 2009 8:26:06 AM
MKSGR:
Just watched the promo video on the Audi web site. I have to say that the car looks much better in this video than on the above pictures. Let's wait how it looks in real life
Yesterday I saw 2 new A8. They looked like inflated A4. 
. I talked to our friend at our dealer and he is also not very happy with the new design. I told him no chance for a second S8.
Dec 4, 2009 9:42:02 AM
turbosteff:
MKSGR:
Just watched the promo video on the Audi web site. I have to say that the car looks much better in this video than on the above pictures. Let's wait how it looks in real life
Yesterday I saw 2 new A8. They looked like inflated A4.
Just think of the positive impact such an "inflated A4" might have on your price negotiations with customers 
I can already hear them "Poor guy, now he switched to an A4, we need to support him by higher prices and more volume" 
MKSGR:
turbosteff:
MKSGR:
Just watched the promo video on the Audi web site. I have to say that the car looks much better in this video than on the above pictures. Let's wait how it looks in real life
Yesterday I saw 2 new A8. They looked like inflated A4.
Just think of the positive impact such an "inflated A4" might have on your price negotiations with customers
Perhaps this new maxi-A4 model was designed for Germany only, where according to RC people are ashamed to own expensive cars because their neighbours and customers don't approve.
reginos:
MKSGR:
turbosteff:
MKSGR:
Just watched the promo video on the Audi web site. I have to say that the car looks much better in this video than on the above pictures. Let's wait how it looks in real life
Yesterday I saw 2 new A8. They looked like inflated A4.
Just think of the positive impact such an "inflated A4" might have on your price negotiations with customers
Perhaps this new maxi-A4 model was designed for Germany only, where according to RC people are ashamed to own expensive cars because their neighbours and customers don't approve.
Reginos, this isn't because of shame, it's a matter of necessity. You can be proud or ashamed of your, but if the customers go elsewhere because they think your car is too nice or if your children are harrassed in school because of it (as in RC's case), getting a more inconspicuous vehicle is a move of self preservation more than anything else.
As for the new A8, I prefer the previous version.
reginos:
This is why the Panamera, even though it is not what you can call "readily beautiful", stands out from the crowd.
See a Panamera in a busy street and it will draw your attention because it differs.
This is why Audi and BMW will sell MUCH MUCH more sedans than Porsche.
Comment of one of the Audi CEOs: "we made the new Audi A8 to "fit" into the current social climate." The Panamera is the "here I come" type of car which even people who can afford it will stay away from, at least over here in Germany, Porsche's second largest car market after the US.
I'm still not sure about the US, in the US the Cayenne could be the biggest competitor to the Panamera because it has more room, Americans love SUVs and it is also substantially cheaper than the Panamera.
Time will tell but personally I still doubt the success of the Panamera under the current financial crisis circumstances worldwide.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW
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