Crown

Jim, you are my hero!

James Glickenhaus, the man behind the coachbuilt Pininfarina Ferrari P4/5, has confirmed that he will build a race version of the car to compete in endurance racing.

The P4/5, which debuted at the 2006 Pebble Beach Concours d’Elegance, is a one-off rebodied Ferrari Enzo, built by the Pininfarina design house to look like the famous 1967 Ferrari P4 race car. It is reported to have cost Glickenhaus $4 million.

"The P4/5 Competizione would be a race-ready sibling to that car and will likely cost even more.

Several months back when Glickenhaus first proposed the idea he admitted it was a long shot, saying that, “There are a LOT of stars that would have to align for this to happen but it’s not impossible.”

Glickenhaus recently posted on FerrariChat under his screen name of Napoli that, “Things are starting to come together. It will take time but there is excitement and real interest. Thanks to my Partners in this adventure! This will be some trip and it has begun. P 4/5 took on a life of her own. May P 4/5 Competizione follow her example.”

It is expected that the Pininfarina Ferrari P4/5 would be entered at an upcoming Nürburgring 24 hour race."

That looks superb!

Congrats Jim. i think its safe to say that we will all be cheering for you on any race that car enters.

http://jalopnik.com/5535508/ferrari-p45-competizione-gets-f430-scuderia-donor

A year to go, the clock is ticking

Slow In, Fast Out

Great to hear from you and happy to see that the project is under way!

It is expected that the Pininfarina Ferrari P4/5 would be entered at an upcoming Nürburgring 24 hour race."

What complete crp!

This car is a prototype , and as such is not permitted under the ADAC rules for the VLN or the 24h Nurburgring

Spyderidol:

It is expected that the Pininfarina Ferrari P4/5 would be entered at an upcoming Nürburgring 24 hour race."

What complete crp!

This car is a prototype , and as such is not permitted under the ADAC rules for the VLN or the 24h Nurburgring

 

Sometimes it's better to do a bit of research before spouting things that aren't true.

It's also a very good idea to consider that publicly accusing someone of lying is often a very bad idea.

"Of course we would like to discuss the needs and questions of your clients to bring an E1-XP-compliant-Car next year to Nürburgring with our technical experts"

...Cool it! No one accused anyone of lying.

My comment is based solely on what was posted and that last line was not posted.

Any way - Yes it can go under E1-XP (in theory) , but I'll wait (sitting down) to see it happen.

Also - According to the BMW press release - Class E1 is reserved for  works  teams.

Your first post was not true.

Your second a laughable mismash of backtracking, wiggling, and distortion.

Dude you've been:

POWNED

In what way ?

here's part of the BMW PR:

Technology of the BMW M3 GTR

M3 extreme.

A muscular presence and a big heart: the BMW M3 GTR makes its mark
with a beefy body partly constructed of carbon-fibre, an output of more than 500 bhp from a V8 engine, and a thoroughbred racing chassis.

BMW Motorsport originally designed the GT Coupé to compete in the American Le Mans Series (ALMS). In the 2001 season, the BMW M3 GTR took the title in every class: BMW works driver Jörg Müller won the
Drivers’ Championship in the GT Class, BMW Motorsport took the Team title, and BMW came top of the Manufacturers’ standings in the company’s
most important export market. In seven out of eight races, the BMW M3 GTR was first to cross the finish line.

The fundamental difference to the production M3 lies in the driveline.
The GTR is driven by a 4.0-litre V8 rather than a 3.2-litre straight-six engine. For improved aerodynamics, the M3 GTR has a front air dam extended
forward by seven centimetres compared with the M3, a five-centimetre longer tail end, and a superstructure that is lower by around two centimetres.



To comply with the regulations of the Nürburgring 24 Hour Race,
in particular the stringent noise and emissions standards, comprehensive and in part performance-reducing modifications had to be carried out.
Both BMW M3 GTRs will be contesting Class E1 reserved for works teams

From your aggressive stance - I don't think you really want to discuss this, so I would say that it is you that has been POWNED

Once again you're wrong.

No matter how many times you post things that are not true they remain not true.

The press release you posted is from BMW not from the People who make the Rules.

There is NOTHING in the E1-XP rules that limit cars therein from ONLY being "works" Entry and it's a moot point anyway as in the case of       P 4/5  Competizione, Scuderia Cameron Glickenhaus is a works team.

The people who invited P 4/5 Competizione to participate in the 24 Hours of Nurburgring weren't BMW.

The people who invited P 4/5 Competizione to participate in the 24 Hours of Nurburgring are the people who make the rules.

2. General Prescriptions of Eligibility:

Vehicles of group E1-XP are exclusively eligible for circuit

races, subject to a special approval granted by the DMSB

in writing. These regulations represent the basis for the

participation of these vehicles. The intention is to try to

integrate different vehicle concepts with different

performances into an event. Contrary to the usual

regulations in motor sport, this consequently requires a

flexible handling of the regulations.

Let's cut to the Chase.

P 4/5 Competizione HAS  been invited to Particapate in the 24 Hours of Nurburgring subject to E1-XP by the sanctioning body of that race.

What part of that are you unable to understand?

I know its from BMW  - I clearly stated that ...twice. (what part can't you read?)

Great you say you were invited.

I don't know why you didn't say that in the first place, and all of this hussy fitting would have been avoided.

So we will see you next year.

Your laughable bullshit remains laughable bullshit no many how you try to wiggle out of it.

Your original post is not true PERIOD.

"It is expected that the Pininfarina Ferrari P4/5 would be entered at an upcoming Nürburgring 24 hour race."

What complete crp!

This car is a prototype , and as such is not permitted under the ADAC rules for the VLN or the 24h Nurburgring"

Spyderidol:

What complete crp! 

Napolis:

 

Your laughable bullshit remains laughable bullshit no many how you try to wiggle out of it.

Guys, let's try and keep the temper at a respectful level. We don't want this discussion to turn into a dispute and get carried away.

 There is no discussion happening here only a suspicious overreaction to a contrary opinion.

Time will tell.

Your First Post clearly wasn't opinion.

You clearly posted it as fact which it wasn't as it's clearly not true.

The only thing your right about is that time will tell.

Good God man. I posted what I thought to be true. If it is incorrect, then just post the correction and stop being a prima donna.

Your reaction is dubious to say the least!

What complete crp!

@Napolis: you are welcome to discuss cars and other topics here but, as Gauss has politely stated, you should do so in a respectful manner. Differences of opinion are normal but you need to respect the rules of this forum and the manner in which you are expected to conduct yourself towards other forum members. The other Moderators and I do not expect to see this behaviour being repeated.

-- 

RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

easy_rider911:

@Napolis: you are welcome to discuss cars and other topics here but, as Gauss has politely stated, you should do so in a respectful manner. Differences of opinion are normal but you need to respect the rules of this forum and the manner in which you are expected to conduct yourself towards other forum members. The other Moderators and I do not expect to see this behaviour being repeated.

-- 

RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

Spyderidol, not for nothing - but you know both the 24hr of Nurburgring & 24hr of LeMans are "invitational" races.

As such, on occasion, they will take liberal interpretation of the rules or even grant dispensation to a particular car in the interest of seeing it run within a classification if they so choose.

And something like this is not exclusive just to those two series -- it happens all the time in many non-spec race series.

The race organizers know that often these cars don't necessarily effect the level of competition or give an unfair advantage that would drastically effect the outcome of the race as often these cars are more explorative and aren't expected to win, place, or show (not to insult you and your effort, Jim - please don't take that as a sideways comment at the level of commitment and sincerity you're going to put into this) but  in the eyes of the organizers - special one-offs are more exercises in engineering as well as gauging the interest of new classes, while in addition "spicing up the show" and drawing more attention to the race itself because frankly, when has ANYONE been so interested to see a car run in a race a year before its even been announced.

The minute the P4/P5 dropped - mouths hit the floor and for many car fans around the word - penises went erect.

A year or so later when it was announced that a racing version was in the works, that slight tingle you get in your groin before you orgasm started to happen.

Don't think the race organizers don't take note of this kind of stuff and know the kind of  draw it would get by having the car in the race. So you pick up the phone and call.

- "Can I race in your event this year? I'm making that car you've all hear about."

- "Sure - but you'll have to base it as closely as possible to these rules." *wink / nod* 

And off you go spending godsmacking sums of money making an adult wet dream on 4 wheels.

To that end, I don't think anyone would spend the bucketloads of money designing and fielding a race car without having the foresight to make sure it fits or comes close to the spec of some racing series, somewhere. 

<steps off soapbox - watches Celtics continue to decimate Cavs. Hope LeBron in a disappointed weeping heap signs with the Knicks> 

...the only thing stopping you in all likelihood, is you!

You are correct - both are invitational races, but what usually happens (for instance in the case of Le Mans) is that you have to participated at Le Mans in previous years, or placed in the LMS or the ALMS. There are other ACO invites, but they tend to be usually limited to the places left on the grid . This serves many purposes, but one of the main ones is to guarantee grid numbers. Obviously the ADAC 24H Nurburg does not have this problem as it has about 195 entrants this year.

Here are the criteria used for Le Mans:

• A maximum of two (2) cars per competitor
• Fame of the competitor (manufacturer, factory-backed team, well-known private team, private team)
• Previous "24 Hours of Le Mans" races
• Competitors' record
• Regular entries in "American Le Mans Series" and "Le Mans Endurance Series" events
• Recommended entry in a race prior to the Selection Committee meeting
• Quality of the cars
• Technical interest
• Relationship with the A.C.O. and its environment regarding legal and financial issues
• Maintaining the participation of "privateers"
• Etc.

Important to note:

The entry list for Le Mans is limited to 55 cars spread across the 4 categories. 28 entries are "pre-selected", that is to say if they enter, their entry will be accepted. This only applies if the entry is to the same category as it was pre-selected for. This privilege belongs to the team and is not related to car or engine make. The pre-selections in each category are:-

• 1st and 2nd at 2007 Le Mans in each category
• 1st and 2nd in 2007 LMS in each category
• 1st at 2007 Petit Le mans in each category
• 1st in 2007 ALMS or 2nd in ALMS in each category if winner also won Petit Le Mans
• 1st and 2nd in 2007 FIA-GT in GT1 & GT2

Ether way - a invite is an invite....so no further argument from me.

don't mind spyderidol he is just way to enthusiastic about gt racing, expecialy when it comes to competitions that porsche competes in.

as for the post above, those are just guidelines, whitch are regularly broken by the ACO as it has the discrationary right to invite whoever thay want for what ever reason they want!  It even says so in the rules :D

@Napolis I have a technical question about the car,

How come the 430 Scuderia was used, and not a michelotto 430gte or the new 458 gt racer that should be available next year, are there any technological addvantiges to the decision!

BTW great car, and hope you have loads of fun with it at the RIng, you are living the Dream

Why this heated debate, guys?

Judging from above link, the car based on the 430 Scuderia could easily be converted back to a roadlegal car. I assume with enough determination and ressources, that should also work with a proper racing version but at which benefit?

A few years ago, former F1 driver Frentzen privately entered a hybrid Gumpert Apollo in the 24h race legally and the car, in its technological state, was clearly a prototype.

Heist

Exactly as you said. 

arakis

Basically so that after her racing days are over, it's not impossible that she'll receive more invitations from other Racing Venues, as P 4/5 has more web pages about her than "World Peace", we can reconvert her into a street legal car that I can drive around and use in Events like the Historic Targa Florio.

Basically we're building a full race GT2.  Her street engine/gearbox/etc. will be removed and stored  and a full race engine/gearbox etc. will be engineered and installed.  We did a lot of Aero on P 4/5 and her Aero is very good.  She has twice the downforce of an Enzo, more balanced Downforce and lower drag.  P 4/5 Competizione will have the advantage of a large wing etc and we'll do wind tunnel testing.  The F430 GT2 is a very developed car and engine and has done well in endurance racing and there are a lot of spares and parts available at reasonable prices.  The 458 is a ways away and if we went that route we couldn't make 2011.  Basically endurance racing today is very equalised using air restriction and ballast so the performance differences are small.  The Ring requires a higher ride height than many race courses and a robust suspension so we will engineer and build for that.  As with P 4/5 which has over 200 uniquely engineered systems P 4/5 Competizione will have a lot of unique engineering building on what others have done.

For me this project is a throwback to the 60ies when Teams like my Friend's at NART took street drivable cars and went racing.  Until about 1967 Le Mans cars could be driven on the street to the Races and Raced quite successfully.  The last Ferrari to have won Le Mans is a car like that.and was built in a small shop in Greenwich using parts such as ignition wires from the local Auto Parts store because as Coco said: "The original Ferrari Wires were crap."   The Team we're using is a very well known Prototype and Racing Shop and the Person in charge is Paolo Garella who was Head of Special Projects at Pininfarina when P 4/5 was designed. engineered and built.

Tomorrow I'm going to pick unconverted P 4/5 Competizione up and put some breakin miles on her.  I'll stop at the building that once housed NART and let her feel the Ghosts.  We'll then head up Route 22 for a Cheeseburger at the Red Rooster as Coco, Tom Meade and I used to.

Jim, thank you for finding your way back to a more civilized tone, we really appreciate it (as much as we appreciate benefiting from your vast experience with these beautiful toys...oops...cars ).   

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

I wish you success in this Jim, your passion is evident. Please keep us posted!

Napolis:

Tomorrow I'm going to pick unconverted P 4/5 Competizione up and put some breakin miles on her.  I'll stop at the building that once housed NART and let her feel the Ghosts.  We'll then head up Route 22 for a Cheeseburger at the Red Rooster as Coco, Tom Meade and I used to.

WOW... thats what I call a plan for the weekend! Enjoy it

Lars997:

Napolis:

Tomorrow I'm going to pick unconverted P 4/5 Competizione up and put some breakin miles on her.  I'll stop at the building that once housed NART and let her feel the Ghosts.  We'll then head up Route 22 for a Cheeseburger at the Red Rooster as Coco, Tom Meade and I used to.

 

WOW... thats what I call a plan for the weekend! Enjoy it

+1 for this weekend. I wish you all the best and success with this project Jim, you are living the dream!! I feel privileged to have you post here and be a down-to-earth guy and fellow car enthusiast to the last bone

Enjoy the break-in miles and PLEASE keep us posted as much as you can.

indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :)