Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: 997.2 Turbo S to hurt 997.2 Turbo sales? - Page1

Nov 23, 2009 10:19:35 AM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12680, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002

997.2 Turbo S to hurt 997.2 Turbo sales?

Gentlemen, here's the story:

Many of us here (Kreso, do you hear me? Smiley ) believe, that the new 997.2 Turbo PDK is the best daily usable supercar currently available. Me included.

If you configure the new Turbo PDK reasonably, you will end up somewhere between 160k and 170k, mostly depending if you consider the PCCB to be a necessary option or not.

The GT2 is IMO no alternative for the confident Turbo customer, since it has no AWD and is much too track orientated for the senior Porsche lover.

But, and this is something new in comparison to the first generation Turbo, as we all know there will shortly be a Turbo S, which will

have more power
be more exclusive
be available as PDK only
feature AWD as the "standard" Turbo

Of course it all depens on the price. So are there any rumours, how much the Turbo S will cost? We have to bear in mind though, that the roughly 4k for PDK will already be included in this base price.

So do you think that the Turbo S will hurt sales of the standard 997.2 Turbo PDK significantly? Smiley

And do future buyers of the 997.2 Turbo PDK consider to wait for the Turbo S? Smiley

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

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Nov 23, 2009 10:36:29 AM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: Rossi

Re: 997.2 Turbo S to hurt 997.2 Turbo sales?

I expect the S to be at least 15.000 euro more expensive than the base car PLUS the cost of the standard PDK and whatever else is standard on the S and optional on the standard Turbo (for example SC plus might be standard on the S).

I base this 15K Euro premium on the difference between the Boxster/Cayman/Carrera standard and S models (10-12K)

For 99% of buyers the 500HP model is more than adequate but if I were in the market for a Turbo I'd wait for the S even if the difference was 15.000 Euro, because provided that you have to pay a lot already for the standard model, it's always good to have the top model of anything.

similarly, the Carrera 3.6 is more than adequate too for the vast majority of buyers, but sales are lower than the S.

--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

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Nov 23, 2009 10:49:28 AM

ALDO: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany, Black Forrest , Germany; Posts: 3072, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2003; Reply to: reginos

Re: 997.2 Turbo S to hurt 997.2 Turbo sales?

Like in the past every extra hp costs 1.000 DM, now 1 PS = 500 €.

So you can make the calculation.

But I don´t think, that the Turbo S will hurt significantly the sales number of 997.2. You have to wait at least two years. And then the next generation turbo is on plan....

--

AM
www.aldo-yachting.de

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Nov 23, 2009 11:21:09 AM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: ALDO

Re: 997.2 Turbo S to hurt 997.2 Turbo sales?

ALDO:

You have to wait at least two years. And then the next generation turbo is on plan....

Why 2 years? The S will start in spring 2010 and there is plenty of excess production capacity at Porsche due to falling sales.

Also the 991 Carrera will be a MY 2012 model (and it might be delayed) so the Turbo won't be out until 2013 at the earliest. That's 3 good years at least to enjoy your Turbo S.

--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

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Nov 23, 2009 11:49:14 AM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: Rossi

Re: 997.2 Turbo S to hurt 997.2 Turbo sales?

Rossi:

Gentlemen, here's the story:

Many of us here (Kreso, do you hear me? ) believe, that the new 997.2 Turbo PDK is the best daily usable supercar currently available. Me included.

If you configure the new Turbo PDK reasonably, you will end up somewhere between 160k and 170k, mostly depending if you consider the PCCB to be a necessary option or not.

The GT2 is IMO no alternative for the confident Turbo customer, since it has no AWD and is much too track orientated for the senior Porsche lover.

But, and this is something new in comparison to the first generation Turbo, as we all know there will shortly be a Turbo S, which will

have more power

be more exclusive

be available as PDK only

feature AWD as the "standard" Turbo

Of course it all depens on the price. So are there any rumours, how much the Turbo S will cost? We have to bear in mind though, that the roughly 4k for PDK will already be included in this base price.

So do you think that the Turbo S will hurt sales of the standard 997.2 Turbo PDK significantly?

And do future buyers of the 997.2 Turbo PDK consider to wait for the Turbo S?

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Stefan,

As you already said nice optioned 997.2 Turbo PDK cost 160K € to 170K €. Personally I would go for standard brakes version.

So far we know that 997.2 Turbo S will have:

-PDK as standard

-530ps

We can assume PCCBs will be standard as well, also some special exterior colors may be included.

I expect that 997.2 Turbo S will be much more expensive then 997.2 Turbo PDK. Base price will be IMHO close to SLS AMG base price(German market).

Question is do you need 997.2 Turbo S?

If your 997.2 Turbo will be your only true sportscar and you are willing to pay asking base price(add some options and 997.2 Turbo S could cost 190K €) then go for 997.2 Turbo S.

If potential buyer(like you) is fluent enough and true enthusiast which will own more then one sportscar(458 Italia for example) then standard 997.2 Turbo PDK is more then enough.

Also I agree with Adnan that 997.2 Turbo S wont hurt sales of 997.2 Turbo PDK.

Some example-I simply hate(I know, I know-many people like them) Spyder wheels. Rumor is that 997.2 Turbo S will came with them as standard item. I like new Turbo II wheels much more...

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Nov 23, 2009 11:54:14 AM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12680, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: 997.2 Turbo S to hurt 997.2 Turbo sales?

KresoF1:

Some example-I simply hate(I know, I know-many people like them) Spyder wheels. Rumor is that 997.2 Turbo S will came with them as standard item. I like new Turbo II wheels much more...

Absolutely agree here! Smiley

Spyder wheels look like a relict from the past, just as the Challenge wheels from Ferrari. Smiley

Standard wheels is the way to go. Smiley

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

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Nov 23, 2009 12:08:03 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: Rossi

Re: 997.2 Turbo S to hurt 997.2 Turbo sales?

Rossi:

Spyder wheels look like a relict from the past, just as the Challenge wheels from Ferrari.

Standard wheels is the way to go.

I see what you mean

--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

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Nov 23, 2009 12:23:15 PM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: Rossi

Re: 997.2 Turbo S to hurt 997.2 Turbo sales?

IMHO 997.2 Turbo PDK should look like this(Arctic Silver, GT-Silver or Meteor Grey as my favourite colors for Turbo)...

That's it! Smiley

For mature and wice costumers...

For somebody else... Smiley Smiley

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Nov 23, 2009 12:23:57 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59581, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: reginos

Re: 997.2 Turbo S to hurt 997.2 Turbo sales?

As far as I heard, the Turbo S will NOT have much advantage acceleration-wise over the Turbo BUT it will be faster (Vmax).

I don't think that the Turbo S will hurt Turbo sales, simply because the 991 is due soon.

I'd rather think that the 991 will hurt Turbo sales because according to the rumors we have, the 991 Carrera S will hit 0-200 kph in around 13 seconds, bringing it closer to the Turbo league. Rumored power figure: 400 HP, plus a couple of horses.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

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Nov 23, 2009 4:01:00 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: 997.2 Turbo S to hurt 997.2 Turbo sales?

@ Kreso: Very good taste I would also have the side sills and front and rear aprons in body colour, instead of the standard black.

How about interiors?

--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

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Nov 23, 2009 4:18:55 PM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: reginos

Re: 997.2 Turbo S to hurt 997.2 Turbo sales?

reginos:

@ Kreso: Very good taste I would also have the side sills and front and rear aprons in body colour, instead of the standard black.

How about interiors?

I will keep side sills and both aprons in standard black-look more harmonious IMHO.

Interior? Black, Cocoa or Natural Leather Dark Grey. All go very nicelly with Arctic Silver, GT-Silver and Meteor Grey.

Brave one may choose Natural Leather Carrera Red also.

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Nov 23, 2009 4:42:45 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: 997.2 Turbo S to hurt 997.2 Turbo sales?

Aren't they just responding to another stratum of buyers?

I mean look at guys who buy Porsches, some simply must have one and will go into debt to do so. Others just walk in the show room and plop down the cash to buy the current top-of-the-line model.

--
2007 997 Turbo

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Nov 23, 2009 5:12:49 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: 997.2 Turbo S to hurt 997.2 Turbo sales?

KresoF1:

reginos:

@ Kreso: Very good taste I would also have the side sills and front and rear aprons in body colour, instead of the standard black.

How about interiors?

I will keep side sills and both aprons in standard black-look more harmonious IMHO.

Interior? Black, Cocoa or Natural Leather Dark Grey. All go very nicelly with Arctic Silver, GT-Silver and Meteor Grey.

Brave one may choose Natural Leather Carrera Red also.

Thanks! My favourite is classic black or dark grey.

Painting the sills and aprons makes it much easier to clean. The original finish tends to accumulate lots of debris and needs detailing very often.

--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

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Nov 23, 2009 5:13:32 PM

Liquid: Junior; Loc: Dubai , United Arab Emirates; Posts: 60, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 26, 2008; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: 997.2 Turbo S to hurt 997.2 Turbo sales?

IMHO, the Turbo continues to look undertyred irrespective of what wheel option is chosen because of its stance. It needs at least a 20mm drop, even the spider rims might look attractive then.

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Nov 23, 2009 5:39:53 PM

Super Darius: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Italy-Como , Italy; Posts: 4084, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 7, 2002; Reply to: Rossi

Re: 997.2 Turbo S to hurt 997.2 Turbo sales?

Rossi:

Standard wheels is the way to go.

I'm with you for standard wheels,i like them much!!

and i'm not sure again if go with PDK or not...i will think a few before to order my 991 TT Smiley

i will jump the 997 TT and 997 TTS MK2 Smiley too much late for my taste,991 is behind the door Smiley ,911 Turbo ios not so near,but the new Carrera will makes the TT Mk2 old before of the time.. Smiley

Smiley

--
997 TT, what a car/che'mmmmmaghena!!!

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Nov 23, 2009 6:39:38 PM

cannga: Expert; Loc: Los Angeles's "twisties" :-) , United States; Posts: 1940, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 6, 2005; Reply to: Liquid

Re: 997.2 Turbo S to hurt 997.2 Turbo sales?

I do not think the S model will hurt sales of the non-S, if only for the simple reason that when there are similar variants of car, it's the cheaper version that hurts sales of the more expensive one, not the other way around. It's *always* about the money.
In addition, isn't a large percentage of Turbo sold in the US? We have 65 mph limit!

Kreso, welcome to the Turbo club. You are a man of extremely refined taste. The car is an incomparble daily driver, has no peer at its price point, and 997.2 is indeed best version ever IMO.
If you are going to get lighter exterior paint, then my vote is for painted side and rear lips as in pic of my car below, so they don't stand out and make the car look "busy." I also vote for COCOA!

Re. the Spyder wheel, I was excited about that center lock, but now I think it's a very bad idea to have this on a street car. Just imagine having a non-fixable flat far from a big city, in a car with no spare tire. For the US, you are now talking about towing all the way back to a Porsche dealer, which very likely won't have tire in stock and will charge an arm and a leg for it when it does come, instead of the much more common tire shops.
I've read that the center lock is not exactly to take off either, even with the proper "instrument' to do it. BTW, said "instrument" sure looks like a anti-tank rocket launcher. It's huge.

I also agree that stock wheel is "better" than Spyder cosmetically. The Spyder wheel takes the mesh design and moves it back 20 years! It's a very flat, linear, and boring looking wheel. The same mesh design looks much different when done properly IMHO, as seen in picture below.

--

Regards,
Can
997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )

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Nov 23, 2009 7:25:01 PM

Wonderbar: Rennteam Pro; Loc: usa , France; Posts: 2719, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 31, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: 997.2 Turbo S to hurt 997.2 Turbo sales?

I have new CayenneTTS, and think the premium over the Cayenne turbo is worth it. Some nice features come standard on the S, in addition to the extra 50HP. Folks who are comparing the 997TT.2 and a 997TTS.2, should really evaluate the option list and engine power. If the price of a well appointed S is 5 to 10K more, I would go for the S.

One question for Board folks. Anyone think the S, or the next generation cars, will have the Panamera Turbo type hidden, then expandable rear spoiler?

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Nov 23, 2009 7:50:16 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12680, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: 997.2 Turbo S to hurt 997.2 Turbo sales?

RC:

I'd rather think that the 991 will hurt Turbo sales because according to the rumors we have, the 991 Carrera S will hit 0-200 kph in around 13 seconds, bringing it closer to the Turbo league. Rumored power figure: 400 HP, plus a couple of horses.

13 seconds with "only" 400 horses? Smiley

Could that be possible? Smiley

PS: My post No. 8000. Smiley Next step is 9000... Smiley

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

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Nov 23, 2009 8:09:35 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: Rossi

Re: 997.2 Turbo S to hurt 997.2 Turbo sales?

Rossi:

So do you think that the Turbo S will hurt sales of the standard 997.2 Turbo PDK significantly?

Surely the objective of a 911 Turbo S model has always been to try to maintain sales of a Turbo version at a time when they could otherwise be hurt by the fact that the "standard" 911 has already moved on to the next generation. Smiley

--

fritz

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Nov 24, 2009 1:01:38 AM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: fritz

Re: 997.2 Turbo S to hurt 997.2 Turbo sales?

fritz:

Rossi:

So do you think that the Turbo S will hurt sales of the standard 997.2 Turbo PDK significantly?

Surely the objective of a 911 Turbo S model has always been to try to maintain sales of a Turbo version at a time when they could otherwise be hurt by the fact that the "standard" 911 has already moved on to the next generation.

A very astute observation. Smiley That would make a lot of sense.

However, if history is any guide, one thing we all know is the S variant of the Turbo has been an absolute disaster in the resale area. Whatever someone pays over and above the 2 version they will loss almost immediately and the car will be difficult to sell,

I believe here in the US, Porschephiles know enough to stay from Porsche "deals" where you spend a disproportionate amount to get a little more performance.

--

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Nov 24, 2009 11:03:06 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12680, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: 997.2 Turbo S to hurt 997.2 Turbo sales?

KresoF1:

IMHO 997.2 Turbo PDK should look like this(Arctic Silver, GT-Silver or Meteor Grey as my favourite colors for Turbo)...

That's it!

For mature and wice costumers...

Kreso, this Turbo is just perfect. Smiley

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

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Nov 25, 2009 4:45:47 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59581, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Rossi

Re: 997.2 Turbo S to hurt 997.2 Turbo sales?

Rossi:

13 seconds with "only" 400 horses?

Could that be possible?

PS: My post No. 8000. Next step is 9000...

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

"Around" 13 seconds could mean 13.9 or 13.0. Smiley

"Around" 400 HP could mean 399 or 409 HP. Smiley

The 991 will be a very fast accelerating car, especially with the improved PDK. Smiley

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

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Nov 25, 2009 5:39:27 PM

cannga: Expert; Loc: Los Angeles's "twisties" :-) , United States; Posts: 1940, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 6, 2005; Reply to: RC

Re: 997.2 Turbo S to hurt 997.2 Turbo sales?

RC:
"Around" 13 seconds could mean 13.9 or 13.0.
"Around" 400 HP could mean 399 or 409 HP.

The 991 will be a very fast accelerating car, especially with the improved PDK.

I really enjoy reading this type of inside-info leak from within Germany. Rennteam is good because of this.

--

Regards,
Can
997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )

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Nov 27, 2009 12:33:11 PM

MarkN: Junior; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 54, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 5, 2009; Reply to: cannga

Re: 997.2 Turbo S to hurt 997.2 Turbo sales?

FWIW, my car will be Aqua Blue with dark grey natural leather. I looked at painted side skirts but I think you then need to have both the front and back painted as well and that would have delayed the car. As it is, it's supposedly being built on 7 December.

I expect the S will be much more expensive than the "cooking" 997.2 TT, at least here in the UK, both because we have a tax rise in store and an overdue adjustment for our tanking currency.

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