CloseNot agree with you at all.
That's life I guess...
Interesting that you also find Mclaren MP4-12C as not very good design.
In the past Ferrari fans were known as die hard ones, currently 911 and GT-R fans are really die hard ones IMHO.
458 Italia is great design, again IMHO.
Reginos, it's been quite some time since I read such a stupid comment from you.
Well, I guess here we go again, buddy. 
And before you start getting rude:
It's not that you don't like the 458 Italia or Ferrari in general, but calling Ferrari-enthusiasts "playboy owners" that frequent only "hotels, night clubs and casinos" shows some deficiencies in social intercourse. 
The secret of life is to admire without desiring.
Rossi:
It's not that you don't like the 458 Italia or Ferrari in general, but calling Ferrari-enthusiasts "playboy owners" that frequent only "hotels, night clubs and casinos" shows some deficiencies in social intercourse.
Interesting enough in my country(and nearby area north Italy and south Austria included) common "playboys" and frequent visitors of "hotels, expensive night clubs and casinos" are usually driving BMW X5/X6, Mercedes various AMG models(mostly in fashionable white or black metallic) and Porsche Cayenne(in all versions).
Of course, we have here few "interesting" characters that own Ferrari also but, more then few own Porsche as well.
Interesting enough in my country(and nearby area north Italy and south Austria included) common "playboys" and frequent visitors of "hotels, expensive night clubs and casinos" are usually driving BMW X5/X6, Mercedes various AMG models(mostly in fashionable white or black metallic) and Porsche Cayenne(in all versions).
Hey KresoF1, also in Bulgaria... 
i went there this summer (sunnybeach)... 
Rossi:
Reginos, it's been quite some time since I read such a stupid comment from you.
Well, I guess here we go again, buddy.
And before you start getting rude:
It's not that you don't like the 458 Italia or Ferrari in general, but calling Ferrari-enthusiasts "playboy owners" that frequent only "hotels, night clubs and casinos" shows some deficiencies in social intercourse.
I can accept that there are some exceptions to this ownership pattern (i.e. true aficionados and keen drivers including all rennteam F-owners) but that is the Exception that Reinforces the Rule.
--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts
nberry:
I agree with Stefan. Reginos not one of your better posts.
I guess my issue is I am seriously trying to talk myself out of buying the car. Sadly, at least as of today, I have failed miserably.
Obviously I didn't mean you and Stefan and the rest of the enthusiasts here which fall in the aficionado minority.
However, my evaluation of the car as striking, spectacular and sensational as opposed to good looking is accurate, I believe. It attracts attention as a result of its excessively ostentatious design. Some like this design philosophy some do not.
Nov 19, 2009 4:27:15 PM
nberry:
I guess my issue is I am seriously trying to talk myself out of buying the car. Sadly, at least as of today, I have failed miserably.
That always was your problem, Nick. You could never argue a case convincingly, not even when it had real merit. 
fritz
nberry:
I agree with Stefan. Reginos not one of your better posts.
I guess my issue is I am seriously trying to talk myself out of buying the car. Sadly, at least as of today, I have failed miserably.
If I had the cash for 458 italia, I wouldn't hesitate for a second..
ONUR
09 Audi TTS Ibis
07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)
Nov 19, 2009 10:18:52 PM
palenimbus:
I thought his post was totally fine. I think just hit a raw nerve among F-car owners here
Rule Number One: As an F-car owner you are not allowed to have only one raw nerve or you will never be happy with such a car.
--
The secret of life is to admire without desiring.
reginos:
nberry:
I agree with Stefan. Reginos not one of your better posts.
I guess my issue is I am seriously trying to talk myself out of buying the car. Sadly, at least as of today, I have failed miserably.
Obviously I didn't mean you and Stefan and the rest of the enthusiasts here which fall in the aficionado minority.
However, my evaluation of the car as striking, spectacular and sensational as opposed to good looking is accurate, I believe. It attracts attention as a result of its excessively ostentatious design. Some like this design philosophy some do not.
Reginos, I don't care if you don't like F-cars, to each his own. Some prefer Maranello, some Zuffenhausen and some both. 
I also don't think that nowadays you can talk about "the majority of owners" of one brand. I've been to Maranello lately and most people I saw were rather decent. There are always some exceptions, but it was more or less the same as during a Porsche event.
Of course there was Flavio, but that's a different story.
I think you are right with your statement when it comes to SOME owners of older F-cars, but I thought we were talking about the current models.
Coming back to the 458 Italia, yes, I also think it is spectacular and striking, when you see it in the metal even much more than in pics. But I also think it's a perfect and beautiful design, the best of the V8-midengined-Ferrari since cars like the F355 or 328. Not as raw and brutal as a Scuderia or Gallardo for example, but it has the right balance between aggressive and elegant. No matter from which angle you look at it. Of course the performance numbers are stunning, but it's this (in my eyes) perfect design, why I really fancy this car.
The secret of life is to admire without desiring.
fritz:
nberry:
I guess my issue is I am seriously trying to talk myself out of buying the car. Sadly, at least as of today, I have failed miserably.
That always was your problem, Nick. You could never argue a case convincingly, not even when it had real merit.
On the other hand, it could be my arguments did not have merit and thus my present failure. Now if Porsche could jettison part of its German soul and assimilate a little Italian, it just might come up with a beautiful car. However, I don't see that in the near future. German stylist much like their engineers rarely if ever stray off the line. They are afraid of the world beyond.
When German engineers learn to wrinkle the sheets in bed, they may break out.
Now if Porsche could jettison part of its German soul and assimilate a little Italian, it just might come up with a beautiful car. However, I don't see that in the near future. German stylist much like their engineers rarely if ever stray off the line. They are afraid of the world beyond.When German engineers learn to wrinkle the sheets in bed, they may break out.
You mean that there is more to it than "form follows function"?
nberry:
fritz:
nberry:
I guess my issue is I am seriously trying to talk myself out of buying the car. Sadly, at least as of today, I have failed miserably.
That always was your problem, Nick. You could never argue a case convincingly, not even when it had real merit.
On the other hand, it could be my arguments did not have merit and thus my present failure. Now if Porsche could jettison part of its German soul and assimilate a little Italian, it just might come up with a beautiful car. However, I don't see that in the near future. German stylist much like their engineers rarely if ever stray off the line. They are afraid of the world beyond.
When German engineers learn to wrinkle the sheets in bed, they may break out.
What you say applies to a part of the buying public, that are attracted by flamboyance and extravagance in design (and often but not always at the expense of substance). Which is fair enough for you and others of the same taste, but not all of us enjoy this type of style.
I (and thousands of others) prefer the more minimal (you say conservative) carved-from-solid design of Porsche cars without the embellishments and visually striking features. A car is primarily an instrument and not an ornament to our way of thinking. I know that only a very small minority of owners of these spectacular cars care to drive them a lot, so perhaps for them they fall in the decoration category.
Excellent mid-engined designs for me: Carrera GT, Ferrari 308/328, Ferrari 355, Audi R8 (esp.Spyder).
OTT designs: All Lamborghinis, F430, 458, Zondas etc
Indifferent designs: New McLaren, various recent Lotus.
But, like we say in our language "in matters of taste there shouldn't be any quarrel".
--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts
Nov 20, 2009 11:07:28 AM
Ferrari's radical new door opening...
(20 November 2009)
Ferrari is working on a new kind of door aimed at improving passenger and driver access to its vehicles.
The firm has filed a patent application for a door that includes part of the front wing and hinges upward, so that when it’s opened the occupant can place their foot directly behind the front wheel. According to the application, this makes it easier to get in and out of a low-slung sports car.
The design is suitable for front, mid or rear-engined cars, although it is particularly suitable for mid-engined cars, and the application claims the system would be “easy and cost-effective to make” when compared to gullwing doors...
Nov 20, 2009 11:32:12 AM
Rossi:
reginos:
Ferrari customers and their passengers are getting larger?
BTW that looks like a Jaguar in the drawing!
I'd say it's an Aston.
Aston, Jaguar the same audience, only Aston's are richer 
--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts
nberry:
fritz:
nberry:
I guess my issue is I am seriously trying to talk myself out of buying the car. Sadly, at least as of today, I have failed miserably.
That always was your problem, Nick. You could never argue a case convincingly, not even when it had real merit.
On the other hand, it could be my arguments did not have merit and thus my present failure. Now if Porsche could jettison part of its German soul and assimilate a little Italian, ..........................
That's not going to happen, Nick. 
When Porsche started zink coating its car bodies back in the late 1970s, it put a stop to them rusting. 
You don't think anybody would want to turn the clock back now, do you?
PS: I owned a couple of Alfas when i was young and foolish.
fritz
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