CloseOct 26, 2009 10:03:43 AM
Thought you guys might be interested to read the following perspective on the 997.2 TT:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/new_car_reviews/article6887646.ece
RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pick up
Oct 26, 2009 10:37:45 AM
IMO there are some fair comments in the report but some exaggerations too, like "So, in all but brute speed, it is an inferior product".
I was driving a 997.1 Turbo Tiptronic (on loan) last Friday and I can tell you that the power delivery is so addictive and the surefootedness so superb that the car is far from being called "inferior" to anything and especially to the normal Carrera S.
The article was written by Frankel, but when I saw the picture of J. Clarkson and his involvement on the site, I immediately understood why there was a blemish on the Timesonline verdict.
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It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts
Mikla:
I fully agree with his point of view. The car is so good, so filtered and quiet... that is not fully rewarding. In fact, this is why I sold my 997 Turbo and went back to the GT3 addiction...
Horses for courses as they say. Turbo and GT3 have different objectives. Therefore, the Turbo shouldn't be evaluated on the basis of the GT3 and vice versa.
reginos:
Mikla:
I fully agree with his point of view. The car is so good, so filtered and quiet... that is not fully rewarding. In fact, this is why I sold my 997 Turbo and went back to the GT3 addiction...
Horses for courses as they say. Turbo and GT3 have different objectives. Therefore, the Turbo shouldn't be evaluated on the basis of the GT3 and vice versa.
Agreed. I always think of this example when I see comments like these:
And people with the 911 Cup Car would say the exact same thing about the GT3 -- filtered and Lexus like compared to a Cup Car. 
Think of it as a line between 1 to 10, 1 is Lexus and 10 is Formula 1 for example. The GT3 is closer to 10, but by no means is the ultimate sports car, and definitely NOT a daily driver, unless your definition of a daily driver is a car that needs to run like a motorcycle to feel satisfied.
The Turbo is not as "exciting" on a 2 hour drive or on the track, but on a daily basis, is the better choice for many. And when it comes to straightline power, the GT3 is hopelessly underpowered in comparison. Horses for courses as they say. 
BTW, the real GT3 of my dream is based on Cayman, with an engine that doesn't leak (there is STILL no fix for RMS), and weighs less than 3000 lbs (current GT3 is simply too heavy for this engine), and PDK (I happen to think an automatic type transmission "hides" the severe lack of torque better for street driving.).
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Regards,
Can
997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! 
)
Turbo and GT3 are not comparable. In my case, I didn't use the Turbo as a daily driver.... but ended up doing 25.000 kms in one year! Did track it a couple of times, and it was awesome.
But the GT3 is better for me, which doesn't mean is a better car. I still believe the Turbo is the best car I've ever owned. On the other hand, the GT3 is the most exciting car.
997 GT3 RS
Mikla:
Turbo and GT3 are not comparable. In my case, I didn't use the Turbo as a daily driver.... but ended up doing 25.000 kms in one year! Did track it a couple of times, and it was awesome.
But the GT3 is better for me, which doesn't mean is a better car. I still believe the Turbo is the best car I've ever owned. On the other hand, the GT3 is the most exciting car, except for straightline power and low end torque.
Agreed mostly and fixed it for you where necessary. 
Really, the GT3 is one of the world's best track oriented cars no doubt, but is too heavy for the current engine. Go to GT3 forum and you'll see occasional heroic efforts to reduce weight or increase engine displacement, etc. In the end though, it will never have the power of the Turbo.
The main point though is as Reginos has pointed out, you can't make simplistic or one-liner comparison between the 2 cars without pointing out ALL the pluses and minuses. For the same reason that I wouldn't go to the Cayenne forum and telll them how much faster my Turbo could take corners. They would throw the 8 pieces of luggages from their car's trunk at me. 
Also note I haven't even discussed how the fields could be further equalized by a simple track alignment and coilover change. Still doesn't make the Turbo a GT3, but one, I doubt if one is going to pass the other on the track in amateurs' hands, and two, only I could take wife and kids to Chinese in my Porsche. LOL.
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Regards,
Can
997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )
cannga:
Mikla:
Turbo and GT3 are not comparable. In my case, I didn't use the Turbo as a daily driver.... but ended up doing 25.000 kms in one year! Did track it a couple of times, and it was awesome.
But the GT3 is better for me, which doesn't mean is a better car. I still believe the Turbo is the best car I've ever owned. On the other hand, the GT3 is the most exciting car, except for straightline power and low end torque.
Agreed mostly and fixed it for you where necessary.Really, the GT3 is one of the world's best track oriented cars no doubt, but is too heavy for the current engine. Go to GT3 forum and you'll see occasional heroic efforts to reduce weight or increase engine displacement, etc. In the end though, it will never have the power of the Turbo.
The main point though is as Reginos has pointed out, you can't make simplistic or one-liner comparison between the 2 cars without pointing out ALL the pluses and minuses. For the same reason that I wouldn't go to the Cayenne forum and telll them how much faster my Turbo could take corners. They would throw the 8 pieces of luggages from their car's trunk at me.
Also note I haven't even discussed how the fields could be further equalized by a simple track alignment and coilover change. Still doesn't make the Turbo a GT3, but one, I doubt if one is going to pass the other on the track in amateurs' hands, and two, only I could take wife and kids to Chinese in my Porsche. LOL.
Just wanted to share my experience and in any case wanted to convince anyone. To each his/her own. 
997 GT3 RS
I actually agree with you, if partially (outside of straightline power and low end torque, which the GT3RS is not in the same class as the Turbo), and even have plan to add a GT3 to my garage. Its excellence is understood. I also am for sharing experience, but feel that it must be the "complete" experience. Your original post could give the impression that the GT3 is a more exciting "replacement" for the Turbo, and this could not be further from the truth. Not any more than if I were to say a motorcycle is a more exciting replacement for the Turbo.
Most important fact frequently left off this type of one-liner comparison: The GT3RS is a one dimensional car and must be looked at as a SECOND car in the garage, a weekend/track toy, unlike the Turbo which would be at home either on the track or the streets. For example, unless one is sadistic or masochistic 
, one would not take one's wife on a Sunday cruise in the GT3RS. And don't even think about restaurants, work, or social functions, unless looking ridiculous is on the agenda.
So bottom line, who is having more fun, me logging 10,000 plus miles and enjoying my Turbo every day of the week, or GT3RS owner who drives a Volkswagen (just (half) kidding) to work? Nothing wrong with either way, and that's why it's horses for courses. And the lucky ones are the ones who have both!
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Regards,
Can
997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )
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