Crown

J.Seven:

Jezzzzz, will have to take a look to the OT forum, it seems to be the Hell´s door with flames all over it

J.Seven

Honestly, If you have avoided it until now, don't go there...

I remember in the past, when someone like "nberry" would chime in about the beloved 911 and set the forum in a frenzy.  But what came out of it was some great discussions.  I still grin when I think about some of the "to and fro" between Nick and Carlos!

Sure, there were some frustrations, but  It felt very friendly even in the hottest of topics.

Now I don't claim to speak for anyone else, but I find some of the disucssions in "Off topic" to be quite "sharp" at times, and this inevitably effects the rest of the forum - how can anyone partition strong feelings?  I know I find it a real turn-off.

So the great information is still here, but perhaps some of the "magic" is lost ... And maybe that goes some way to explain the first posters observation.

Now I shut up, before I get reprimanded...

Yes those discussions were really funny, and I always enjoy the way nberry criticise Porsche in general, the guy is funny and many times he was right on the spot, miss those posts.

I agree with you, RT some how lost a bit of his original glamour.

J.Seven

DRA:

Now I don't claim to speak for anyone else, but I find some of the disucssions in "Off topic" to be quite "sharp" at times, and this inevitably effects the rest of the forum - how can anyone partition strong feelings?  I know I find it a real turn-off.

So the great information is still here, but perhaps some of the "magic" is lost ... And maybe that goes some way to explain the first posters observation.

I seem to remember that this has already been (obliquely) remarked upon in the past.

http://www.rennteam.com/forum/thread/20093359/Has_Rennteam_gone_too_far_OffTopic/page1.html

--

fritz

I seem to remember that this has already been (obliquely) remarked upon in the past.

http://www.rennteam.com/forum/thread/20093359/Has_Rennteam_gone_too_far_OffTopic/page1.html

--

fritz

He he, indeed 

Daniel

Since I'm in the classic car restoration parts business, I frequent a good number of forums, not so much as a "participant", but more as a miner.... Mining the forums for trends, information, positive and/or negative comments regarding my company, and positive and/or negative things about my competitors...

It's a powerful tool in my toolbox for feeling the pulse of the hobby, and helping steer the business. Also when I see something negative being said about us, I have the opportunity to PM the complainer, dig into the situation, and set things straight, be it our fault or their misunderstanding. The best measure is the fact that I rarely find complaints about us, but commonly find threads trashing my competitors, which always puts me in a good mood and positive outlook!!

Any-hoo, these classic restoration guys represent the TRUE CAR NUTS amongst us. They're not just dropping by a dealership and scratching a check, and enjoying the drive... They're out in their garages every spare moment shedding blood, spending their last penny, and welding and grinding and sanding and wrenching. True devotees...

And for the last 3-5 months, I've noticed a MARKED down-turn in forum activity. It's dead everywhere I'm afraid, and the classic guys historically are never swayed by "what's new", as their cars are by definition yesterday's news...

Oddly enough, my business is only slightly off, we're doing quite well during this mess, and sales haven't dropped more than 10% from historic highs... But apart from that, the forum activity seems to have dropped off a cliff. So I think that there is a shift right now where people don't have the "free time" during the day to be dorking around online. Companies are generally running LEAN on payroll, meaning less people on-hand carrying heavier workloads. Those who have a job, are damn busy with it, because everybody who wasn't carrying the water was let-go, and the stars are now picking up all their slack.

So, THAT, plus the fact that the 997 is stale and established (we've talked-out just about every foreseeable topic other than we've never resolved MMD's fascination with the pros and cons of brake dust  ), plus the fact that the new format drove away a ton of members, and there ya go...

Very perceptive post, as usual, 69bossnine

I agree with every word but would add that after the teething troubles, many RTers came back

What you've described regarding enthusiast activity levels, the consequences of recession, the flight to quality businesses, workloads for people still in work, redundancy numbers etc is 100% spot on  Significantly, those observations are true of most sectors in our respective national economies (in the developed world) and in the world economy too.

Rennteam Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S Coupe GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

See, that's why I dropped-out of the University of Florida....

I knew that I'd learn more about macro-economics just living life... than I would paying them handsomely each semester for dubious-not-real-world theory!!  

69bossnine:

See, that's why I dropped-out of the University of Florida....

I knew that I'd learn more about macro-economics just living life... than I would paying them handsomely each semester for dubious-not-real-world theory!!  

Hahaha,  i have theses thoughts often.

indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 
_____________________________________________________________________
1986 BMW 325e 5spd 2.7L 121 hp (172 lb·ft) Le Mans Blau on Tan leather.
1986 BMW 325is 5spd 2.5L 168 hp (164 lb-ft) White on Tan leather (parted out) 
2005 Ford Focus S, 5spd 2.0L 136 hp (120lb-ft) CD silver on grey (sold)
1986 Porsche 944, 5spd 2.5L 150 hp (168lb-ft) champagne gold on grown leather. (sold)

Not so at the 928 forum(s), nor at 6 speed which has expanded greatly from what i used to see there. The fchat forums I watch are stable though with different faces. There is a change here and it began with the format change but has continued at a slower pace of its own.

 Chat sites are becoming passe'. Unless your are a real enthusiast often it is not worth the time and trouble to post.

That said, I do agree there really isn't any valuable information about cars today. Hell, car magazines in trying to get information are going to chat sites to print something new. In one instance, they took information from this site and printed it w/o verifying it's accuracy.

FWIW, I did have a lot of fun attacking Porsche. Sadly, over time once I had been proven right, the energy level dropped.

nberry:

... car magazines in trying to get information are going to chat sites to print something new. In one instance, they took information from this site and printed it w/o verifying it's accuracy.

FWIW, I did have a lot of fun attacking Porsche. Sadly, over time once I had been proven right, the energy level dropped.

 
I think the car magazine in question simply re-used one of 69bossnine's witty posts 

BTW, who said you had been proven right?  

--

Rennteam Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S Coupe GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

We all knew Nick wasn't right - even Nick knew Nick wasn't right! 

But it was a lot of fun to kick around.

Roll on the 991... that's when the forum will really become totally vibrant again.

In the meantime there's a real hardcore of R/T die-hards who are still making this site the best on-line experience for enthusiastic individuals to share a whole host of topics...

Friendship is priceless and R/T has that in abundance...

"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

DRA:

Now I don't claim to speak for anyone else, but I find some of the disucssions in "Off topic" to be quite "sharp" at times, and this inevitably effects the rest of the forum - how can anyone partition strong feelings?  I know I find it a real turn-off 

I agree with you DRA, and especially the political threads

nberry:

FWIW, I did have a lot of fun attacking Porsche. Sadly, over time once I had been proven right, the energy level dropped.

nah, its really that vegan diet that is draining the enegy from your neurons, nothing a big juicy stake from the grill won't cure! though I'm not sure I'd want you to get cured

Carlos from Spain:

DRA:

Now I don't claim to speak for anyone else, but I find some of the disucssions in "Off topic" to be quite "sharp" at times, and this inevitably effects the rest of the forum - how can anyone partition strong feelings?  I know I find it a real turn-off 

 

I agree with you DRA, and especially the political threads

+1

Not that I didn't try to contribute though, but it seems almost impossible to have a discussion down there. Politics and religion are obvioulsy sensitive subjects, but it goes way too far way too often.
 

There are boards to discuss everything from cars to carpet lint , not to mention social networking sites that have people logged on for hours a day , which didn't exist to this extent even 2-3 yrs ago.

And most  general car boards have long since degenerated  into a " here's why my  Camry is better than your  POS Accord " level- so I suspect many don't even bother anymore. 

racerx:

Not so at the 928 forum(s), nor at 6 speed which has expanded greatly from what i used to see there. The fchat forums I watch are stable though with different faces. There is a change here and it began with the format change but has continued at a slower pace of its own.

It's a ghost town of it's former self.  After not posting for a week when I came back from MA I think it took me 20 minutes to read everything that was posted.  When dozens of long time, frequent posters said they hated the new format & said they were going to leave I wished we would have listened.  Also to the posters that don't post but instead just come here to complain about how bad things are why not contribute something instead? It could be anything in any subject, doesn't have to be off-topic. I mean if you have 70 posts since Feb 2005 or 97 posts since August 2003! (that's what 1post a month?) that has ZERO to do with anything recently on off-topic. You're blaming the lack of  activity on the few people that post while you hardly have posted in many years? Makes zero sense.  Nothing is stopping anyone from posting on the sports car forums & when someone does post NO ONE replies anymore.  Here's what I mean -

"Hani" posted a thread on the Porsche forum & asked a question on October 4th:

http://www.rennteam.com/forum/thread/20125628/2010_GT3_ceramic_breaks/page1.html

ONE person replied 11 days later October 15th!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not a single person whining on this thread replied to Hani.  Anyone welcome him to the forum? So if you want a scapegoat look no further than a mirror. Look at the forum under "All" right now how many threads are off-topic politics out of the 30 threads listed on the first page?  The answer is Zero.  But I've already said it, why not just shut down the off-topic forum & see how that goes?  I mean I already know the answer, one topic isn't preventing people from participation in the other's, it's just become the easy scapegoat for people that arent interested in the only subject that still gets participation but why not just do it & see?

Should be easy to do yes?  Give it a shot  at least for a while & see what happens. Aron? What do you think?  It would be well worth it if it meant bringing back even a few car enthusiasts.
--

08 PORSCHE Turbo Cabriolet, 06 Ferrari F430,  04 Durango HEMI,  04 Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle,  93 Harley Davidson Nostalgia

I suggest isolating the "Off Topic" board so that it doesn't routinely come up with the board listings.  Keep it to the left of the page, and mandate that those who wish to jump onto it must click on it to the left.  Therefore, it doesn't completely disappear from RT, but won't blend in with the other boards when one logs on to RT and/or peruses the boards for the latest or even all posts.

1997 993 TT Proto 3.8L 700HP

2005 996 TSCab EVO GT700

2006 Noble M400 "M600" 573RWHP

2007 Audi RS4 MTM exhaust/clutch/LWFW

STRADALE:

... to the posters that don't post but instead just come here to complain about how bad things are why not contribute something instead? .... You're blaming the lack of activity on the few people that post while you hardly have posted in many years? Makes zero sense ....

Very well said Gregg  This forum will only be as good as the effort we all collectively put into it.

I once said something similar i.e. that people are sitting at the table banging their knives and forks on the tabletop yelling for more food - but we need more people to bring the food on the trays to the table 

You guys all know that I spend a lot of my free time and effort putting together threads to contribute to RT in the hope that it will be interesting and entertaining to other people (e.g. the threads I've posted on my 911 Factory Collection, various Tours, my PSDS experience in France etc etc). 

We need everyone to GIVE more so that ALL OF US can TAKE more. It shouldn't be just sit back (passively) and TAKE TAKE TAKE 

--

Rennteam Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S Coupe GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

Eunice:
i find it very sad that questions remain unanswered for weeks, there is no excuse for that as we have enough mods around.
sometimes though, New members are not welcomed enough here, take vividracing for example, He tried to join our community and suddenly had to defend himself.

Could be my own perception but RT feels elitist sometimes. There is a fantastic amount of information on the boards, provided by true connoisseurs, and any potential buyer would learn a lot here, but there's this feeling that it's somehow a closed community. Having said that, it's perfectly understandable that some of you guys have been here long enough to have a special bond or a strong connection, and it is indeed fantastic. 
But, for a new member here, it can be intimidating I guess.

IMO, we all should be under the same banner : passion. No matter whether you are 15 years old or 85, no matter what your political views are, no matter whether you drive a Lada Jigouli or a Scuderia. Passion should bring people together, especially on RT.
 

Just my two cents.

easy_rider911:

STRADALE:

... to the posters that don't post but instead just come here to complain about how bad things are why not contribute something instead? .... You're blaming the lack of activity on the few people that post while you hardly have posted in many years? Makes zero sense ....

Very well said Gregg  This forum will only be as good as the effort we all collectively put into it.

I once said something similar i.e. that people are sitting at the table banging their knives and forks on the tabletop yelling for more food - but we need more people to bring the food on the trays to the table 

You guys all know that I spend a lot of my free time and effort putting together threads to contribute to RT in the hope that it will be interesting and entertaining to other people (e.g. the threads I've posted on my 911 Factory Collection, various Tours, my PSDS experience in France etc etc). 

We need everyone to GIVE more so that ALL OF US can TAKE more. It shouldn't be just sit back (passively) and TAKE TAKE TAKE 

--

Rennteam Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S Coupe GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

Thanks easy & to the above. Well said!!!!!!!

Easy - I think you're the last person that anyone would accuse of not participating, you put your heart & soul into your tour threads & imo they're some of if not the best on RT. If we had a few more easy's I bet no one would complain about participation. Aron too, I bet he's constantly busy with not just participation here but behind the scenes.  The big change didn't help but imo you can't under-estimate the effect of  the end in life cycles for all the most popular /discussed models at the same time, coupled with the Great Recession.  IMO there will be an increase in participation once the 458, 991 new Lambo's start being delivered.

 

 

"I once said something similar i.e. that people are sitting at the table banging their knives and forks on the tabletop yelling for more food - but we need more people to bring the food on the trays to the table............. It shouldn't be just sit back (passively) and TAKE TAKE TAKE"

 

Easy; that is EXACTLY how I feel & didnt know how to say it.  What is this, where frequent participants are like free entertainment for those that just sit back & read the forum? You have every right not to contribute & just "passively" entertain yourself by reading other's posts but maybe you then shouldn't complain about the lack of participation or type of content YOU want to see. --------- "We need everyone to GIVE more so that ALL OF US can TAKE more" - easy.

I'm sure it doesn't help either with any new RT'ers if they come here to constantly see threads on how this place has gone down hill.  This seems to keep happening from non participants & then the same individuals that have a beef about the OT section pile on.  Does anyone think that helps with new or even regular's to see this constant bashing of the forum?  If it were me & I just signed up all the negativity about how bad forum is would probably keep me away too.  I mean for someone new you see people talking about how bad RT is & then what? ,,,,,,,, it makes you want to hang out there?  doubt it.

Aron added the headers including "Politics" if that's not your thing then why even open those threads in the first place, which also happen to account for such a tiny amount of overall topics?????? Geezz enough already..........

--

08 PORSCHE Turbo Cabriolet, 06 Ferrari F430,  04 Durango HEMI,  04 Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle,  93 Harley Davidson Nostalgia

Eunice:
Gregg i strongly agree. At the Moment politics isnt an issue. We have learned to respect each others opinion and apart from the occasional trolling the tone is friendly and the discussion contained to a few threads.
i find it very sad that questions remain unanswered for weeks, there is no excuse for that as we have enough mods around.
sometimes though, New members are not welcomed enough here, take vividracing for example, He tried to join our community and suddenly had to defend himself.

Agree.

For the time being, I've stopped posting new political threads too, just in case my opinion that it wasn't taking from other topics participation was wrong & from what I can see stopping that hasn't helped one bit if anything things are even slower.  Matter of fact you wont find a political thread started by me in the 4 pages of OT threads that are viewable.  And of the 120 OT threads on those 4 pages since the beginning of September that are viewable there's a total of 6 called  "Politics" of which only 4 threads had anything to do w/ American Politics....4 in 120 OT threads, so 4 in how many all combined from the whole forum? 4 in 500?  dunno.  But like I said from the beginning that was never the issue....  Well maybe for a couple of people but like Boss's sig says: "got an issue, here's a tissue". Perhaps we need more Politics threads then.  Hmmmmmmm.....

I had to search for what you just described & found it, that's unfortunate but didn't surprise me to see the 2 most vocal OT critics also piling onto Vividracing in that thread too.

I've dealt w/ Vivid Racing in the past, bought my Titanium wheel bolts & other trick stuff from them & couldn't be happier with how I was treated. Shame we didn't show the same courtesy.

--

08 PORSCHE Turbo Cabriolet, 06 Ferrari F430,  04 Durango HEMI,  04 Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle,  93 Harley Davidson Nostalgia

  Nothing is stopping anyone from posting on the sports car forums & when someone does post NO ONE replies anymore.  Here's what I mean -

"Hani" posted a thread on the Porsche forum & asked a question on October 4th:

http://www.rennteam.com/forum/thread/20125628/2010_GT3_ceramic_breaks/page1.html

ONE person replied 11 days later October 15th!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not a single person whining on this thread replied to Hani.  Anyone welcome him to the forum? So if you want a scapegoat look no further than a mirror.

 True that. maybe we should try to be more attentive to new people. that way people who come in to ask questions and get answers can feel more welcome and ultimately stay.

STRADALE:

 

It's a ghost town of it's former self.  After not posting for a week when I came back from MA I think it took me 20 minutes to read everything that was posted.  When dozens of long time, frequent posters said they hated the new format & said they were going to leave I wished we would have listened.  Also to the posters that don't post but instead just come here to complain about how bad things are why not contribute something instead? It could be anything in any subject, doesn't have to be off-topic. I mean if you have 70 posts since Feb 2005 or 97 posts since August 2003! (that's what 1post a month?) that has ZERO to do with anything recently on off-topic.

 

Not a single person whining on this thread replied to Hani.  Anyone welcome him to the forum? So if you want a scapegoat look no further than a mirror. 
 

 You, me, and Alan kept O/T alive for the most part excluding tours. Now that Alan is busy or lost interest it is down quite a bit. Dreamcar and easy have kept that going and john the grumpy of late jokester supplies his wit.  

Ghost town comment above - today I was reading the Aston section at 6speed - a place that was not near as busy as rennteam years ago - 11,000 posts on astons seems most by owners. I think that ties into PinkChampagne below.

PinKchampagnE:

Could be my own perception but RT feels elitist sometimes. 

IMO, we all should be under the same banner : passion. 

My feeling too. although a better word may be close-minded or something along those lines. I said it before but it is becoming less welcoming to  non-european, non-911 subjects. Corvettes, camaros, et al get very little reaction from most non-US members except for  some negative comment.
 

Eunice:
He tried to join our community and suddenly had to defend himself.

Seems I have to defend myself a lot lately. Seems my passion for the 928 really bugs some people while others handle it very well like ISUK who makes jokes about it.

Still others, a very limited group, never fail to jump in with useless venom. Never start a good thread, never share an experience, probably have not had any, never much positive to say. I have made good use of the ignore function with this group.
 

Turbo Al:

I suggest isolating the "Off Topic" board so that it doesn't routinely come up with the board listings.  Keep it to the left of the page, and mandate that those who wish to jump onto it must click on it to the left.  Therefore, it doesn't completely disappear from RT, but won't blend in with the other boards when one logs on to RT and/or peruses the boards for the latest or even all posts.

Al, just today I asked you why you don't post more, you are like 2 posts a month now. So why would you want to follow a strategy to kill the place even more. 

You also used to post a bit in O/T yourself. 

nberry:

 Chat sites are becoming passe'. Unless your are a real enthusiast often it is not worth the time and trouble to post

Chat sites will be passe when humans become telepaths. These places are simply new forms of human communication and if anything will get stronger( the good ones). This place has facilitated a lot of new acquaintences/friendships that otherwise would not exist.

I would like to go on some group rides with a lot of the people here, but geography limits this. It's not easy to meet people who share the same interests, especially if you are a private type person.

And if we ever did have a group ride a lot of stuff would be easier also, there would be a lot more 928 fans, and some might adopt better attitudes.

MKW:

There are boards to discuss everything from cars to carpet lint , not to mention social networking sites that have people logged on for hours a day , which didn't exist to this extent even 2-3 yrs ago.

 

 Exactly. So why doesn't everyone loosen up a bit and jump in on threads about TV shows and discuss them or discuss lint. Or why when someone takes a trip and goes to the trouble of sharing photo's and stories why not express a thought.

But less negativity from all. If you don't like a thread or subject matter, keep your mouth shut. If you want to contest a point do so in as civil manner as possible. How many of the most vociferous antagonistic folks here would actually do the same behaviour in person?

Eunice:
New members are not welcomed enough here, take vividracing for example, He tried to join our community and suddenly had to defend himself.

The Vivid guy is away with the fairies IMO, he is not the sort of poster I want to interact with, he seems a nice enough guy but is really just trying to sell parts without having the knowledge to back up his claims for the stuff he is selling. If you want and encourage this sort of poster then fair enough, but you will lose other sorts of posters,......

2009 997 GT2 659PS/827NM DIN

TB993tt:

Eunice:
New members are not welcomed enough here, take vividracing for example, He tried to join our community and suddenly had to defend himself.

 

The Vivid guy is away with the fairies IMO, he is not the sort of poster I want to interact with, he seems a nice enough guy but is really just trying to sell parts without having the knowledge to back up his claims for the stuff he is selling. If you want and encourage this sort of poster then fair enough, but you will lose other sorts of posters,......

If someone posts false or exaggerated claims, of course someone has to explain that we do not want that here.

But we cannot expect everyone to have the level of knowledge most long term members have here, and as long as people are humble and willing to adapt, that's fine with me. 

I just think we should give new members a chance to learn, even if they messed up their first thread in Rennteam.

What about a newbie guide? I think there is a lot of unwritten rules around here.

racerx:

 You, me, and Alan kept O/T alive for the most part excluding tours. Now that Alan is busy or lost interest it is down quite a bit. Dreamcar and easy have kept that going and john the grumpy of late jokester supplies his wit.

Hi Tom,

What makes you think I'm "grumpy of late" ...

Sorry to give that impression..

I also think you missed Cumbe who is the top jokester on this site...

"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

STRADALE:

easy_rider911:

STRADALE:

... to the posters that don't post but instead just come here to complain about how bad things are why not contribute something instead? .... You're blaming the lack of activity on the few people that post while you hardly have posted in many years? Makes zero sense ....

Very well said Gregg  This forum will only be as good as the effort we all collectively put into it.

I once said something similar i.e. that people are sitting at the table banging their knives and forks on the tabletop yelling for more food - but we need more people to bring the food on the trays to the table 

.... 

We need everyone to GIVE more so that ALL OF US can TAKE more. It shouldn't be just sit back (passively) and TAKE TAKE TAKE 

 

Thanks easy & to the above. Well said!!!!!!!

....

Easy; that is EXACTLY how I feel .... What is this, where frequent participants are like free entertainment for those that just sit back & read the forum? You have every right not to contribute & just "passively" entertain yourself by reading other's posts but maybe you then shouldn't complain about the lack of participation or type of content YOU want to see ...

I'm sure it doesn't help either with any new RT'ers if they come here to constantly see threads on how this place has gone down hill  ....  Does anyone think that helps with new or even regular's to see this constant bashing of the forum?

Thanks Gregg - I agree 

Sure, while people are welcome to passively just read stuff on RT, I do believe that people who don't contribute are in no position to complain that others aren't contributing enough.

I also think that people should do something to help the forum rather than just bashing it. 

Rennteam Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S Coupe GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

Eunice:

TB993tt:

Eunice:
New members are not welcomed enough here, take vividracing for example, He tried to join our community and suddenly had to defend himself.

 

The Vivid guy is away with the fairies IMO, he is not the sort of poster I want to interact with, he seems a nice enough guy but is really just trying to sell parts without having the knowledge to back up his claims for the stuff he is selling. If you want and encourage this sort of poster then fair enough, but you will lose other sorts of posters,......

If someone posts false or exaggerated claims, of course someone has to explain that we do not want that here.

But we cannot expect everyone to have the level of knowledge most long term members have here, and as long as people are humble and willing to adapt, that's fine with me. 

I just think we should give new members a chance to learn, even if they messed up their first thread in Rennteam.

What about a newbie guide? I think there is a lot of unwritten rules around here.

 +1 i think a newbie guide would help people understand better how things work here and could also help them integrate better with the community.