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    Mar 3, 2006 1:17:58 AM

    TommyGT
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    TommyGT
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    Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    Pasm? Big Red Brakes, that extra HP (plus the extra $10K) does it pay off? Not as much as you would think per Motor Trend. I hope I can format this for you...

    Carrera S Carrera
    0-30 mph 1.6 1.5*
    0-60 mph 4.4* 4.5
    1/4 mile 13.0 13.0 (tie)
    speed 109.5* 106.5
    60 mph to 0 109' 107'*
    100 mph to 0 322' 306'*
    Lateral Gs .91 .91 (tie)
    Track Laps 112.2 sec 111.8 sec *

    Carrera comes ahead in 4, ties 2, "S" wins 2. Okay, this should generate some postings. It is kind of interesting however and granted things can differ with any given car on any given day. For those that said I wasn't a car guy for not getting an "S", maybe I was right on with my homework.

    I do however love those red brakes....even if they don't stop as well.

    Mar 3, 2006 1:57:35 AM

    SrfCity
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    Reply to: TommyGT

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    Perception is reality IM book. No brainer going for an "S", for me anyway.

    Mar 3, 2006 2:02:32 AM

    JMShrink
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    Reply to: TommyGT

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    I'm not really surprised. Every dealer I spoke with tried to talk me out of the "S" model. BTW, I have a 997C2 on order and not the C2S..

    Mar 3, 2006 2:04:37 AM

    dnp_now
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    dnp_now
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    Reply to: TommyGT

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    Not much difference on paper. However, it's the best bang for your bucks if you wanted all the extra than an S has over the standard.

    newer engine, +25 hp which cannot be retrofitted
    xenon headlights
    better brakes
    pasm
    19" wider tires and rims

    Mar 3, 2006 2:17:37 AM

    TommyGT
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    TommyGT
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    Reply to: dnp_now

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    Okay...sorry I screwed up and read some of the Aston Martin figures. Lateral Gs is in favor of the "S" at .95 and track time also goes to the "S" at 110.0. Sorry, I got excited. Now I have to go polish my Pacer. Booooo...

    Tom

    Mar 3, 2006 2:24:03 AM

    Le Chef
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    Le Chef
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    Reply to: TommyGT

    Big differences

    When you add those differences over the course of several laps the C2 would be a country mile behind the S.

    What's NOT measured are the in gear times, like 30-50, 50-70, 70-90, etc. in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. My suspicion is that the extra torque and hp of the S would wipe the floor with the base model in those measures.

    Mar 3, 2006 2:25:55 AM

    Silver Bullet
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    Reply to: TommyGT

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    That's interesting. Perception is reallity it seems - I was quite convinced that the S was palpably faster than the standard 997, though I did wonder if it wasn't the better exhaust note that had me feeling that way. Maybe that's exactly what it was.

    Mar 3, 2006 2:30:36 AM

    JMShrink
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    Reply to: Silver Bullet

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    Quote:
    Silver Bullet said:
    That's interesting. Perception is reallity it seems - I was quite convinced that the S was palpably faster than the standard 997, though I did wonder if it wasn't the better exhaust note that had me feeling that way. Maybe that's exactly what it was.


    To me the biggest difference b/w the base and the "S" is the sound. But I'm a musician first before car enthusiast..

    Mar 3, 2006 2:36:14 AM

    GA997S
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    Reply to: JMShrink

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    NOT AGAIN!

    Mar 3, 2006 2:48:12 AM

    SciFrog Offline
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    Reply to: GA997S

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    Didn't have much faith in Motor Trend before, how about now?

    Mar 3, 2006 3:40:35 AM

    TommyGT
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    TommyGT
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    Reply to: SciFrog

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    All boils down to one thing...."S" or non "S" these are 2 very, very fast cars. They beat the Aston Martin Vantage but couldn't out power the Z06 Corvette.....go figure. I wish they tested the base Corvette. They also have figures on the Cayman S. The base Carrera is faster and brakes a bit better but loses in handling.

    Mar 3, 2006 5:53:01 AM

    DavidSF
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    Reply to: TommyGT

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    Personally I think it boils down to whether you want PASM or not. If you want PASM get the S, otherwise get the base. That's what I'd do.

    Mar 3, 2006 7:15:34 AM

    U Boat Commander
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    Reply to: DavidSF

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    All you have to do is drive both cars and decide for yourself. This is a no-brainer. The S blows away the base 997. It has nothing to do with PASM, which sucks IMO. Why are we having this thread?

    Mar 3, 2006 8:18:59 AM

    Hollli82
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    Reply to: U Boat Commander

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    Quote:
    U Boat Commander said:
    All you have to do is drive both cars and decide for yourself. This is a no-brainer. The S blows away the base 997. It has nothing to do with PASM, which sucks IMO. Why are we having this thread?



    Agree Drive both and decide for yourself. I liked the S better so I bought it.

    Mar 3, 2006 1:20:04 PM

    John H Offline
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    Reply to: Hollli82

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    If you've done your homework and made the right decision for you, then there's no reason to keep trying to justify it.

    Mar 3, 2006 1:26:37 PM

    69bossnine
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    Reply to: Hollli82

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    I find it curious that the 0-60 and 1/4 mile time/speed for the "S" in this test is the slowest recorded numbers that I've ever seen published for the "S". Every car doesn't perform exactly the same, and I'd say with the rather slow 109.5 speed at the end of the 1/4, that the "S" they used for testing was toward the bottom of the power range for cars rolling out of the factory. It's always shortsighted to draw a definitive conclusion from only one test, as different cars on different days can give you different conclusions...

    JMShrink, as for "every dealer" talking you OUT of a 997S...... Whatever.... If you actually listen to the opinions of car salespeople, maybe you should be the one on the couch getting analyzed.....

    Asking a car salesperson for advice and guidance in buying your next Porsche is like asking Burger King's Dr. Angus where you should take your wife for dinner.

    Mar 3, 2006 4:12:34 PM

    edz
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    Reply to: 69bossnine

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    Gents: I am sorry but I do not buy these numbers. I have driven all Porsche cars for many years. The 997S is significantly faster than the 997S, there is no comparison. The 997 is not any faster than the old 996, it's the same engine basically. The S will walk away from the 997, 0-60, 1/4 mile and top end. Nothing against the 997, it's agr8 car but it does not stand a chance against the "S". The people that drove the cars must have smoked something

    Mar 3, 2006 4:52:32 PM

    chili
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    chili
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    Reply to: edz

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    Both great cars. I test drove both and frankly I hardly noticed the difference. But then again I'm NOT an expert at all. I just love driving it.

    Either way, its a good choice....

    Mar 3, 2006 10:30:33 PM

    intheloop
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    intheloop
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    Reply to: JMShrink

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    Quote:
    JMShrink said:
    I'm not really surprised. Every dealer I spoke with tried to talk me out of the "S" model. BTW, I have a 997C2 on order and not the C2S..



    I'm sure that had nothing to do with allocations being tighter on the S model while he had open 3.6 liter allocations...

    Mar 4, 2006 1:56:23 AM

    SoCalHoosier
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    Reply to: 69bossnine

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    Asking a car salesperson for advice and guidance in buying your next Porsche is like asking Burger King's Dr. Angus where you should take your wife for dinner.



    LOL... classic!

    Mar 4, 2006 3:27:14 AM

    DavidSF
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    Reply to: U Boat Commander

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    Quote:
    U Boat Commander said:
    All you have to do is drive both cars and decide for yourself. This is a no-brainer. The S blows away the base 997. It has nothing to do with PASM, which sucks IMO. Why are we having this thread?



    Yes, Exactly why I would personally get the base! Too bad PASM is standard on the S. What was Porsche thinking?

    Mar 4, 2006 3:46:12 AM

    JMShrink
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    JMShrink
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    Reply to: intheloop

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    Quote:
    intheloop said:
    Quote:
    JMShrink said:
    I'm not really surprised. Every dealer I spoke with tried to talk me out of the "S" model. BTW, I have a 997C2 on order and not the C2S..



    I'm sure that had nothing to do with allocations being tighter on the S model while he had open 3.6 liter allocations...


    Actually my dealer had a slot for the 997 C2S for Jan 06 and March 06 as well, but no slot for the base 997. Allocations for a base 997C2 were hard to come by actually for Feb, March, and April 06. Can you guess why? Porsche is pushing the Cayman S and the other 997 models: 4, 4S, Cab 4 etc. Nice try..

    Mar 4, 2006 3:48:15 AM

    911godspeed
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    911godspeed
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    Reply to: DavidSF

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    Someone should put together a nice comparason matrix for 911, 911S, Cayman S, Corvette (both versions) or any other we want to debate. We should refer to this matrix for facts anytime there is a thread like this.....any volunteers?

    Mar 4, 2006 3:59:51 AM

    JMShrink
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    JMShrink
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    Reply to: 69bossnine

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    JMShrink, as for "every dealer" talking you OUT of a 997S...... Whatever.... If you actually listen to the opinions of car salespeople, maybe you should be the one on the couch getting analyzed.....

    Asking a car salesperson for advice and guidance in buying your next Porsche is like asking Burger King's Dr. Angus where you should take your wife for dinner.


    Never asked any salesmen for advice bossnine, but that doesn't keep salesmen from giving it. I guess just another excuse for you to use another analogy. You know, blah, blah, blah, is kinda like blah, blah, blah..

    Wanna really know the biggest reason against getting the "S"? BTW, I did make this decision on my own. PASM. The "S" model should be offered with a base or sport suspension. It totally cracks me up, all these people that get the "S" because they want the sportiest variety, but drive around with PASM in the normal(comfort) mode.

    I want to "feel" the road in the 911, not have it dampened with the normal mode of PASM. But that's just me..

    Mar 4, 2006 4:07:52 AM

    JMShrink
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    JMShrink
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    Reply to: SoCalHoosier

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    Asking a car salesperson for advice and guidance in buying your next Porsche is like asking Burger King's Dr. Angus where you should take your wife for dinner.



    LOL... classic!


    Good thing you didn't ask your salesperson(or anyone for that matter) for advice SoCalHoosier. Just by looking at your avatar, they probably would've pegged you for a Cayman S or Boxster. We all remember that movie Legally Blonde with Reese Witherspoon, right? Now THAT'S a classic. LMFAO..

    Mar 4, 2006 4:16:30 AM

    DavidSF
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    Reply to: JMShrink

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    Quote:
    JMShrink said:
    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    JMShrink, as for "every dealer" talking you OUT of a 997S...... Whatever.... If you actually listen to the opinions of car salespeople, maybe you should be the one on the couch getting analyzed.....

    Asking a car salesperson for advice and guidance in buying your next Porsche is like asking Burger King's Dr. Angus where you should take your wife for dinner.


    Never asked any salesmen for advice bossnine, but that doesn't keep salesmen from giving it. I guess just another excuse for you to use another analogy. You know, blah, blah, blah, is kinda like blah, blah, blah..

    Wanna really know the biggest reason against getting the "S"? BTW, I did make this decision on my own. PASM. The "S" model should be offered with a base or sport suspension. It totally cracks me up, all these people that get the "S" because they want the sportiest variety, but drive around with PASM in the normal(comfort) mode.

    I want to "feel" the road in the 911, not have it dampened with the normal mode of PASM. But that's just me..



    Yes. Chris Harris, a respected UK Porsche writer, said he wished he got a base 997 with PPCB instead of his 997S because the base with PCCB had better road feel.

    Mar 4, 2006 4:51:02 AM

    U Boat Commander
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    Reply to: DavidSF

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    Quote:
    DavidSF said:
    Quote:
    U Boat Commander said:
    All you have to do is drive both cars and decide for yourself. This is a no-brainer. The S blows away the base 997. It has nothing to do with PASM, which sucks IMO. Why are we having this thread?



    Yes, Exactly why I would personally get the base! Too bad PASM is standard on the S. What was Porsche thinking?



    Actually, I've been wondering whether one could order the 997S WITHOUT PASM. Anybody know the answer to this?

    Mar 4, 2006 5:06:18 AM

    JMShrink
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    JMShrink
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    Reply to: U Boat Commander

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    Quote:
    U Boat Commander said:
    Quote:
    DavidSF said:
    Quote:
    U Boat Commander said:
    All you have to do is drive both cars and decide for yourself. This is a no-brainer. The S blows away the base 997. It has nothing to do with PASM, which sucks IMO. Why are we having this thread?



    Yes, Exactly why I would personally get the base! Too bad PASM is standard on the S. What was Porsche thinking?



    Actually, I've been wondering whether one could order the 997S WITHOUT PASM. Anybody know the answer to this?


    Not in the U.S.A. In Europe you can get the "S" with the sport suspension instead of PASM. Too bad we can't here in the U.S.A.

    Mar 4, 2006 5:42:39 AM

    hamilton93
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    Reply to: JMShrink

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    i drove both, and frankly both were great cars but the 997S felt tighter and faster, and i would have loaded the 997 base with all the S extras so I came out ahead...

    considered the 4 platform but i actually want a sports car that is not that forgiving...

    Mar 4, 2006 5:44:07 AM

    intheloop
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    Reply to: JMShrink

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    The "A" is PASM is what makes the suspension worth it. Hit a road imperfection in the apex of a turn while in normal mode and notice the absence of a rear, sidways hop.

    FWIW, in February PCNA reported 157 S Coupes sold versus 82 non-S, while 208 S cabs and 98 non-S. Check out the numbers below:
     
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