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Board: Porsche - Panamera Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

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    Aug 18, 2009 12:46:50 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59579, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: W8MM

    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

    W8MM:

    So, what about the Panamera Turbo being too hard to modulate on the throttle to be a good canyon carver?  Inquiring minds want to know.


    Ask you local Porsche dealer if you can testdrive a Cayenne Turbo or better...Turbo S loaner.

    In auto mode, the throttle response/shifting is pretty similar to the Panamera Turbo WITHOUT sport chrono package. The sport chrono package provides a more aggressive throttle response and the shifting is a bit more nervous in auto mode.

    Another difference to the Cayenne Turbo/S: from standstill, the acceleration in the Panamera Turbo is brutally instant, it jumps forward like a rocket, something the Cayenne doesn't.

    From my knowledge, BMW delivers the 750i with a sportier chassis setup in Germany than in the US for example, this is why your 750i experience may not have been that good. Yes, you're right, the low seating position and especially the elevated middle in the interior provide the driver and the passengers of the Panamera with a sportier feel, no doubt about it. I can't see ANY similarity to the 911 though. My Mercedes E55 AMG felt sportier. The emphasis is on "felt" because I can't say how fast the Panamera Turbo actually is because everything happens slightly below the "radar", meaning that the driving experience, especially without sport exhaust and sport chrono package, is pretty unimpressive, almost boring but still VERY fast.

    "Active" drivers should definetely order the Panamera Turbo with sport exhaust, sport chrono package, PDCC, adaptive air suspension and if there is money left, PCCB. This is actually the only Panamera ACTIVE drivers can be happy with, unless they want something comfy for commuting from A to B only and money doesn't matter.

    Btw: the current Jaguar XF-R (not the new model with the weird backlights) is fast as hell and feels absolutely great and sporty. I had the chance to drive one for half an hour, if I find the time, I post some cell phone pictures. For a price tag of 85000 EUR (dealer offering over here) , a real bargain. I almost signed the lease contract but backed off because I really don't need it right now.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

    Aug 19, 2009 6:46:45 AM

    olli
    Pilot
    olli
    Loc: Germany
    Posts: 418, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 24, 2006
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

    I agree with most of RC's comments.

    I had the opportunity to test-drive the Turbo yesterday. I had seen the Panamera in the flesh several times before, but was once again struck by its sheer size. Once you are behind the wheel and in motion, though, its size and weight seem to disappear. The steering is precise but, just as RC described it, it feels somewhat "light" and artificial, it definitely does not give you 911 type feedback.

    The car was equipped with the Sports Plus button and the 2-level chassis set-up option. When you set it to the second level, it goes around corners with amazing speed almost effortlessly. Unless you are taking it for a fast spin on a country road, the throtlle response with Sports Plus turned on is almost too immediate and the gear shifting too twitchy. The normal Sport setting for throttle and chassis seemed to be the best compromise for every day use.

    Overall, it felt much more agile than a Cayenne but it does make you feel like you are in a sports car, either.

    The Start-Stop system is not great, it was the first thing I turned off after taking far too long to get going again at the first traffic light...

     

    Aug 19, 2009 11:10:24 AM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59579, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: olli

    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

    I didn't have the chance to drive a Sport Chrono equipped Panamera yet, so it is very possible, like I also mentioned in my short review, that the Sport Chrono equipped Turbo is much more agile and sporty.

    As soon as I get the chance to drive one, I'll post an addition to the review.

    Still...it is a pitty: Porsche should offer Sport Chrono as a standard option (minus that dumb looking stop watch) on ALL Porsche models but I guess this is not something new I request.

    Thanks for sharing your experience with us, I'm pretty sure a lot of people over here appreciate it.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

    Aug 19, 2009 6:18:33 PM

    PS CA Offline
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    PS CA
    Loc: California , United States
    Posts: 833, Gallery
    Registered on: Nov 13, 2003
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

    Thanks RC for the review. I will reserve final judgement until I see a Panamera in person, but from the photos I have seen I really think that Porsche has made a fairly ugly car. The pictures you included in your review were actually some of the best I have seen. It does seem to look better in dark colors.   I wonder what is it with Porsche that they make cars with designs that we all end up having to make excuses for. I love the design of my 997S cab. I am not as fond of the design of my Cayenne Turbo. I think it could have been done better.

    I am not in the market for a new car right now, but if I was, I don't think the Panamera would be on my list. I am interested in the next generation Cayenne and I am anxious to see what changes will be made. And I plan on replacing my 997S with the next generation 911 (assuming they don't goof it up).

     

    Phil

     

     

    Aug 20, 2009 8:53:41 AM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59579, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: PS CA

    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

    PS CA:

    Thanks RC for the review. I will reserve final judgement until I see a Panamera in person, but from the photos I have seen I really think that Porsche has made a fairly ugly car. The pictures you included in your review were actually some of the best I have seen. It does seem to look better in dark colors.   I wonder what is it with Porsche that they make cars with designs that we all end up having to make excuses for. I love the design of my 997S cab. I am not as fond of the design of my Cayenne Turbo. I think it could have been done better.

    I am not in the market for a new car right now, but if I was, I don't think the Panamera would be on my list. I am interested in the next generation Cayenne and I am anxious to see what changes will be made. And I plan on replacing my 997S with the next generation 911 (assuming they don't goof it up).

     

    Phil

     

     


     

    Same feelings here, very well said. I don't like the look of our Cayenne Turbo S too much either. The first generation Cayenne looks hideous. The first gen Cayenne facelift is a different story, it doesn't make the Cayenne a beauty queen but it improves the look a little bit. So yes, I'm also waiting for the next generation Cayenne, especially since I saw a sketch of the final thing and I kind of liked it. The interior of the next generation Cayenne is very similar to the Panamera interior, another bonus here.

    Why did I go for the first generation Cayenne Turbo then? Pretty simple answer: at that time, it was the fastest serial production SUV on the planet and I love fast cars. Coming from a Mercedes ML 55 AMG, it was the only logical conclusion. I hated the design, I love the driving. I could use the same words for the Panamera Turbo but I still think that a sports limousine needs a bit more "sports" in its genes than a SUV. With sport exhaust and sport chrono, this should be achieved.

    Why did I go after the Cayenne Turbo for the same generation Cayenne Turbo S? Another simple answer: the Cayenne is almost perfect, like a good aged wine. It is the perfect family car for a sportscar addict like me, with two kids and a lot of luggage, there is nothing better around with the same driving/performance capabilities.

    With the Panamera Turbo, things are a little bit different. The Panamera is no SUV and there are a couple of interesting alternatives from other manufacturers. The Audi RS6, the BMW M5 (aged in pride), the Mercedes E63 AMG, the Maserati Quattroporte Sport GT, the BMW 750i and others.

    People need to understand that I like the Panamera from a technical/performance point of view. I would never ever buy the Panamera S or even the V6 but the Panamera Turbo is a very good performer and with the right options, it can be fun too. Still: for almost 175000 EUR, I can get something less ugly, so the question really is if I want to take the risk. Risk? Well...look at the Cayenne: the pre-facelift models are not keeping their value at all, you can get a Cayenne Turbo pre-facelift for 35000 EUR. Ouch.

    Sorry but I think that early Panamera buyers will understand my words after two or three years after the first facelift is coming. Porsche has this very annoying facelift policy, "improving" things which should have been improved from the beginning.

    Remember the first 996? After only one year, Porsche introduced a newly frontlight "interior" design for the Xenon lights. Another year later, a completely new design was introduced, destroying the resale value of the first cars. The story goes on and on, it is always the same story. Cayenne, 997...senseless optical changes and only very limited technical changes which would be appreciated much more since they wouldn't really lower the resale value of older cars. People are into looks, not into technical specs. So when Porsche changes the look, the resale value of the previous model drops.

    Things are even worse with the new 997 Turbo facelift. While the 997 GT3 facelift provided people not only with a better look but also a substantial performance gain, the 997 Turbo facelift is ridiculous in my opinion.

    My point is: I sometimes get the feeling that Porsche does this by purpose, as some sort of upgrade strategy. I could be wrong but compared to other car manufacturers, Porsche builds ugly stuff first and then starts to "correct" it. I don't know but this is more than obvious, the Boxster is another good example of that.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

    Oct 18, 2009 3:43:55 PM

    zeshark
    Junior
    zeshark
    Loc: NW Switzerland , Switzerland
    Posts: 71, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 30, 2006
    Reply to: olli

    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

    We had a chance to sample the S, 4S and Turbo both on a handling course and open roads, and it was stunning to feel how the additional weight affects the handling of the Turbo compared to the S or even 4S. Less precise, less playful, and the torque hike felt marginal. The problem is, at freeway speeds or on mountain roads, the 4S feels underwhelming. Coming off the track, I would have taken a 4S over a Turbo in a heartbeat. Coming back from our mini road trip, the dilemna was total.


    --

    997 GT3 - 550M - 355 GTS F1 - Prius - S4

    Oct 19, 2009 1:24:55 PM

    DJC
    Junior
    DJC
    Loc: fl USA and South Africa , United States
    Posts: 126, Gallery
    Registered on: May 24, 2005
    Reply to: zeshark

    Re: Rennteam's First Panamera TURBO Testdrive

     I don't know whether you know but on the Panamera the stop watch on the top of the dash can be set as a clock and it even as clicks like a clock very cool

     

     
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