Crown

Herbaliser:

I don't agree that 458 is in a different class. It will be a bit faster than the 997.2 turbo which is normal as the 458 a completely new car. Will it be faster than the next 911TT coming in let's say 2.5 years? I don't think so.

In the real world the new Turbo will be faster than the Ferrari. Throw in some wet slippery roads, broken surfaces, bad cambers and other adverse conditions and then we speak again. Real Life is never as clinical as the Fiorano test track

--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

KresoF1:

reginos:

artur777:

PVT is  a technology of distributing torque across the axles and wheels. 

Some type of electronic differential, I think. The fact that it is optional means that it is not necessary for the functioning of the AWD system but that it is an enhancement.

PVT could be a must. There are some other interesting options as well.

Regarding our discussion about 458 Italia and 997.2 Turbo PDK-here is why I think all different league-new 458 will be faster on all tracks and on the road. BUT, on the road only if 458 driver use all the revs. Why? More on August 7th...

KresoF1,
 

Did the .2 turbo get the GT3 (iron) brakes and SPASM? It appears not, but that would be crazy and will lose some customers imo. The facelift is the sum of the parts and too me, these parts are a big part of the package, both visually and performance wise.

Sorry, if I asked before. I can't find the thread.

devo:

KresoF1:

reginos:

artur777:

PVT is  a technology of distributing torque across the axles and wheels. 

Some type of electronic differential, I think. The fact that it is optional means that it is not necessary for the functioning of the AWD system but that it is an enhancement.

PVT could be a must. There are some other interesting options as well.

Regarding our discussion about 458 Italia and 997.2 Turbo PDK-here is why I think all different league-new 458 will be faster on all tracks and on the road. BUT, on the road only if 458 driver use all the revs. Why? More on August 7th...

KresoF1,
 

Did the .2 turbo get the GT3 (iron) brakes and SPASM? It appears not, but that would be crazy and will lose some customers imo. The facelift is the sum of the parts and too me, these parts are a big part of the package, both visually and performance wise.

Sorry, if I asked before. I can't find the thread.

 The 997TT Mk2 got 350/350 discs whereas the GT3 Mk2 got 380/350 discs. Thus, brakes are not identical.

MKSGR:

devo:

KresoF1:

reginos:

artur777:

PVT is  a technology of distributing torque across the axles and wheels. 

Some type of electronic differential, I think. The fact that it is optional means that it is not necessary for the functioning of the AWD system but that it is an enhancement.

PVT could be a must. There are some other interesting options as well.

Regarding our discussion about 458 Italia and 997.2 Turbo PDK-here is why I think all different league-new 458 will be faster on all tracks and on the road. BUT, on the road only if 458 driver use all the revs. Why? More on August 7th...

KresoF1,
 

Did the .2 turbo get the GT3 (iron) brakes and SPASM? It appears not, but that would be crazy and will lose some customers imo. The facelift is the sum of the parts and too me, these parts are a big part of the package, both visually and performance wise.

Sorry, if I asked before. I can't find the thread.

 The 997TT Mk2 got 350/350 discs whereas the GT3 Mk2 got 380/350 discs. Thus, brakes are not identical.

But it did get the same type brakes (aluminum carriers, etc...) as the .2 GT3, just not as big, right?

Any word on SPASM?

Thanks again.

NO SPASM. And IMHO 997.2 Turbo do not need it. Why? Wait for first tests from Sport Auto with 997.2 Turbo with PDK, PVT and Sport Chrono Turbo...

KresoF1:

NO SPASM. And IMHO 997.2 Turbo do not need it. Why? Wait for first tests from Sport Auto with 997.2 Turbo with PDK, PVT and Sport Chrono Turbo...

Spring 2010, the Turbo S will be released with 550PS .

When it comes out it will be a case of  "arrivederci (Ferrari) Italia"

--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

Alex_997TT:
What was the power difference between the 996 Turbo and S? I can't see Porsche having a bigger difference than 30bhp between them, especially with the GT2 marketting ceiling!

Exactly.

My bet is something like 530 hp as well, still enough for the Italia, but that's not the point, if you get what I mean.
 

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Alex_997TT:
What was the power difference between the 996 Turbo and S? I can't see Porsche having a bigger difference than 30bhp between them, especially with the GT2 marketting ceiling!

GT2 is out of production now.

The figure I've quoted above was given to me by the Porsche importer here, as coming directly from Porsche. I tend to believe it due to the mounting competition from many other brands.

--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

Alex_997TT:
That's what was said before the facelift Turbo too and in reality it turned out to be +20bhp, +2mph and +2mpg!

You can ask the OPC too and see what they come up with. So far the people here have been reliable with any "leaked" info.

This product planning is very reasonable from the Porsche profit(eering) point of view. Offer the expected 550 HP in two stages and ultimately charge more. It's the same with all their models. Why have a Carrera at 345 HP and a Carrera S at 385 HP when  what people want is a single 400+HP Carrera model, that can only be had by way of the super expensive Powerkit?  Simply to be able to charge more and skim the cream.

reginos:

Alex_997TT:
That's what was said before the facelift Turbo too and in reality it turned out to be +20bhp, +2mph and +2mpg!

You can ask the OPC too and see what they come up with. So far the people here have been reliable with any "leaked" info.

This product planning is very reasonable from the Porsche profit(eering) point of view. Offer the expected 550 HP in two stages and ultimately charge more. It's the same with all their models. Why have a Carrera at 345 HP and a Carrera S at 385 HP when  what people want is a single 400+HP Carrera model, that can only be had by way of the super expensive Powerkit?  Simply to be able to charge more and skim the cream.

If you ask me chances are close to 0% that the "s" version will have more than 530hp. I talked to some guys from Weissach. Indications are 520-530hp 

MKSGR:

reginos:

Alex_997TT:
That's what was said before the facelift Turbo too and in reality it turned out to be +20bhp, +2mph and +2mpg!

You can ask the OPC too and see what they come up with. So far the people here have been reliable with any "leaked" info.

This product planning is very reasonable from the Porsche profit(eering) point of view. Offer the expected 550 HP in two stages and ultimately charge more. It's the same with all their models. Why have a Carrera at 345 HP and a Carrera S at 385 HP when  what people want is a single 400+HP Carrera model, that can only be had by way of the super expensive Powerkit?  Simply to be able to charge more and skim the cream.

 

If you ask me chances are close to 0% that the "s" version will have more than 530hp. I talked to some guys from Weissach. Indications are 520-530hp 

July 2008 I had been told by an inside source that facelift would have 500 HP . He was right.
He also said 520 to 530 HP for Turbo S and only available with PDK

Gnil:

MKSGR:

reginos:

Alex_997TT:
That's what was said before the facelift Turbo too and in reality it turned out to be +20bhp, +2mph and +2mpg!

You can ask the OPC too and see what they come up with. So far the people here have been reliable with any "leaked" info.

This product planning is very reasonable from the Porsche profit(eering) point of view. Offer the expected 550 HP in two stages and ultimately charge more. It's the same with all their models. Why have a Carrera at 345 HP and a Carrera S at 385 HP when  what people want is a single 400+HP Carrera model, that can only be had by way of the super expensive Powerkit?  Simply to be able to charge more and skim the cream.

 

If you ask me chances are close to 0% that the "s" version will have more than 530hp. I talked to some guys from Weissach. Indications are 520-530hp 

July 2008 I had been told by an inside source that facelift would have 500 HP . He was right.
He also said 520 to 530 HP for Turbo S and only available with PDK

It will be 530 HP then. +20 HP is too little.

Unless they say less on purpose so that they don't discourage the initial orders of the 500 HP car. If people knew that a 550HP car was coming many would postpone ordering.

--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

Kreso, do you know if the 997.2 Turbo S to be launched in March 2010 will also be available as convertible?

I was told by my dealer that in the past the Turbo S version was only ever sold as coupe.

I have some info from pretty reliable source that 530 is proving the limit for the new turbo DFI engine. They are working on the new GT2 (model year ~2011) and it is breaking stuff as they are trying to extract 550hp. Porsche will of course get there and special conrods and pistons are being developed and tested but this aint no Metzger engine......

The 997GT2 RS is finished and signed off at 570PS but apparently they are delaying introduction......

2009 997 GT2 612PS

TB993tt:

I have some info from pretty reliable source that 530 is proving the limit for the new turbo DFI engine. They are working on the new GT2 (model year ~2011) and it is breaking stuff as they are trying to extract 550hp. Porsche will of course get there and special conrods and pistons are being developed and tested but this aint no Metzger engine......

The 997GT2 RS is finished and signed off at 570PS but apparently they are delaying introduction......

TB993tt:

I have some info from pretty reliable source that 530 is proving the limit for the new turbo DFI engine. They are working on the new GT2 (model year ~2011) and it is breaking stuff as they are trying to extract 550hp. Porsche will of course get there and special conrods and pistons are being developed and tested but this aint no Metzger engine......

The 997GT2 RS is finished and signed off at 570PS but apparently they are delaying introduction......

 Seems rather unlikely that they offer a "GT2 RS" with 570hp first and then a 550hp GT2 later... This would be completely unlike Porsche 

I think the GT2 RS rumour is incorrect. The other part of the info (GT2 with 550hp in MY2011) could be right - if we are lucky and they will indeed put this FL on sale 

MKSGR:

 Seems rather unlikely that they offer a "GT2 RS" with 570hp first and then a 550hp GT2 later... This would be completely unlike Porsche 

I think the GT2 RS rumour is incorrect. The other part of the info (GT2 with 550hp in MY2011) could be right - if we are lucky and they will indeed put this FL on sale 

Regarding the first bit, I thought I was told (my German is non existant and his English is pretty bad) that it was because they were unable to get the 550hp out of the DFI for the next GT2 that it meant that they were "sitting on" the GT2 RS, the way I understood it is that the RS has been produced, 350 of them and they are awaiting someone to push the button for release - certainly 100% sure is that my man has had sight of the GT2 RS.

We were discussing the 570hp output in particular in light of the very high IATs seen with just 530hp.......My source was discussing all this with Porsche engineers last wednesday night.

2009 997 GT2 612PS

TB993tt:

MKSGR:

 Seems rather unlikely that they offer a "GT2 RS" with 570hp first and then a 550hp GT2 later... This would be completely unlike Porsche 

I think the GT2 RS rumour is incorrect. The other part of the info (GT2 with 550hp in MY2011) could be right - if we are lucky and they will indeed put this FL on sale 

Regarding the first bit, I thought I was told (my German is non existant and his English is pretty bad) that it was because they were unable to get the 550hp out of the DFI for the next GT2 that it meant that they were "sitting on" the GT2 RS, the way I understood it is that the RS has been produced, 350 of them and they are awaiting someone to push the button for release - certainly 100% sure is that my man has had sight of the GT2 RS.

We were discussing the 570hp output in particular in light of the very high IATs seen with just 530hp.......My source was discussing all this with Porsche engineers last wednesday night.

He claimed that Porsche actually produced 350 (!) "GT2 RS" which now just need to be sold? While I don't know your contact this sounds a bit unlikely (you probably agree)... 

 MKGSR,

I find it quite reasonable that Porsche already produces 350 997.1 GT2 RS cars based on GT1 block... and now they think what to do taking into consideration that they need to build 997.2 GT2 DFI-based 550hp car...

It's not so persuasive that this new DFI engine is better than GT1 block...

MKSGR:

 

He claimed that Porsche actually produced 350 (!) "GT2 RS" which now just need to be sold? While I don't know your contact this sounds a bit unlikely (you probably agree)... 

Well of course I do agree it sounds crazy but as artur says it may be be possible..... if they are really struggling to make the DFI engine be reliable for the 2 year warranty period (4 in the US) at 550hp then 350 units could eaily be written off and not put on the market (or maybe some obscure race series to flog them as race specials) to allow the new DFI GT2 to enter the market with 550 hp...... dunno , just sharing what I heard (interpreted)

2009 997 GT2 659PS/827NM DIN

Ferdie, thanks for posting the 996 pics.

My dealer is still insisting that, in terms of the German market, the 996 Turbo S was not available as convertible, only as coupe.

Any thoughts on the likelihood of the 997.2 Turbo S being sold both as coupe a n d convertible?

LOL, you should talk to your dealer... I still remember the press releases of the 996 tts convertible. Maybe not available on the German market though? Hard to believe...

Regarding your question about the 997 tts convertible: the S is just a badge and a package of options, with a somewhat attractive pricetag. It's not really a special model. Porsche (and other car manufacturers) do this to empty their stock at the end of a procuct lifecycle. My instinct would be that this is valid for both the coupe and the convertible, so my guess would be that they will be offereing a tts convertible.

However, I think the tts is hardly a model to be waiting for. Just buy a regular turbo convertible now and enjoy it...

I agree that special variants such as the TTS are usually wheeled out towards the end of the product life cycle, ie just before the new model generation is introduced, and are principally designed to be extra money spinners and clear out left-over inventory.

In the case of the 997.2 Turbo, though, the S variant is likely to be on sale within only about 6 months of the basic Turbo and at least 2-3 years before the new 998/991 Turbo generation will come on stream. 

I just feel that the Turbo S will be more directly comparable to, and competitive with, the likes of R8 V10, SLS, 458, Gallardo, etc, in the absence of a new GT2.2

olli:

Kreso, do you know if the 997.2 Turbo S to be launched in March 2010 will also be available as convertible?

I was told by my dealer that in the past the Turbo S version was only ever sold as coupe.

 

Your dealer must have been smoking badly  There are several 996 Turbo Cab S for sale even on Porsche official dealers. Tell him to make a 10 seconds search on Porsche website iventory, and he will find it.
 

Here´s one for sale in Porsche Solingen Zentrum

suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showDetails.html

J.Seven

olli:

Ferdie, thanks for posting the 996 pics.

My dealer is still insisting that, in terms of the German market, the 996 Turbo S was not available as convertible, only as coupe.

To be precise, that applied to the older, aircooled models (964 and 993 Turbo S) which featured some options that were not officially available as an option on the regular Turbo.

The 996 Turbo S is more or less a "clever" package with various features as standard, such as the X51 powerkit or the PCCB (which reportedly are already Gen2 on the TurboS opposed to Gen1 on the reg. Turbo).

I would assume that Porsche will not massively differentiate the 997 Turbo S from the regular one, unless they will offer the powerkit solely on the S model. However, it would come as a suprise if they wouldn´t offer the car in convertible shape.

Ferdie, thanks for the clarification. In 2001-05, I was the proud owner of a 996 GT2 (with RS tuning and 542 hp) and a 996.1 convertible and did not worry too much about the Turbo S, which is why I could not remember the details.

I have a 997.1 TT convertible now and and the real incentive to trade it in for the 997.2 TT would be to get closer to the engine performance level of my old GT2 and 997.1 GT2.

I guess you have followed the discussion of 997.1 Turbo owners on this forum regarding the dismissal of the GT1 block? Since you could still upgrade the engine on your current one instead of upgrading to the new version if it is the acceleration you are after.

I assume that most FL cars will feature PDK which I expect will also benefit in resale value. However, I´d be inclined to wait yet another year until the system has proven in daily usage.