Crown
CloseForum - Thread
Re: AutoZeitung: GTR vs GT3
pmpsch:
Think we will going forward have more and more similar discussions as the evolution of technology and specially its spreading amongst car builders will lead to a convergence in performances.
soon most sporty cars will reach the 300km mark and do the 0-100km in less than 4 secondes (check the latest evo - the car).
cars will be judged by reliability and other factors (albeit vain-ish) like image and glamour
driving a porsche is not driving a nissan...and this has a price attached to it.
a swatch is as performant and reliable in giving u the time as a rolex but are not priced similarly. i have not seen many discssions about how rolex is trashed or threatened in any way by the swatch!!!
I agree very much and would like to add one important factor of differentiation:
Driving GT2 and Scuderia on a track recently I was impressed by how different these two cars (which produce similar performance figures) feel: sound, steering, suspension, brakes... Everything feels completely different. In the end personal taste (do I prefer a lighter setup, do I like the feeling of being "glued" to the tarmac, do I like a loud engine noise or do I prefer it less loud etc.) will develop as the key decision criterium 
May 30, 2009 10:06:01 PM
- Porsche-Jeck
- Rennteam Master
-
- Loc: Rheinland , Germany
- Posts: 4856, Gallery
- Registered on: Jun 27, 2005
- Reply to: TEE
Re: AutoZeitung: GTR vs GT3
TEE:
Porsche-Jeck:
Would be interesting to see the results not only after one hot lap but after - let's say - 50 laps or so ?
I wander what we would look like after 50 laps
Well, I better don't upload a picture 
Not 50 laps in a row though, but I did 50 laps on NoS Thursday & Friday 
Like always: the GT3 still is calling for more, the driver needs some days to recover 
Had a fantastic hot lap with Timo Kluck in the GT2 - 250 km/h in the Fuchsröhre was a new experience for me 
The GT-R looks like a tank compared to my baby 
--
public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road 
: Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black
May 30, 2009 10:24:05 PM
- Grant
- Rennteam VIP
-
- Loc: Denver, CO , United States
- Posts: 12586, Gallery
- Registered on: Aug 21, 2002
- Reply to: Porsche-Jeck
Re: AutoZeitung: GTR vs GT3
Porsche-Jeck:
Well, I better don't upload a picture
Did you have a ride with the 997.2 GT3 next to yours (or any other impressions)?
--
73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs) Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2
May 30, 2009 10:43:37 PM
- Porsche-Jeck
- Rennteam Master
-
- Loc: Rheinland , Germany
- Posts: 4856, Gallery
- Registered on: Jun 27, 2005
- Reply to: Grant
Re: AutoZeitung: GTR vs GT3
Grant:
Did you have a ride with the 997.2 GT3 next to yours (or any other impressions)?
Unfortunately not, Grant 
But I talked to some 997.1 GT3 buddies who had the chance to go for a pax-lap with HvS in the new GT3 this week. Their judgement from the passenger seat: power more or less the same feel, handling significantly improved (especially noticeable when turning in at high speed)
Re GT-R laptime at NoS: one of the P-instructors told me that (by chance) he witnessed a test at NoS conducted by Sportauto a couple of weeks ago: 997 TT vs. GT-R Result: GT-R a couple of seconds faster. He didn't tell the exact times but when I asked whether "a couple of secs faster" would mean near GT2 laptime he was just laughing and saying: no, GT2 is driving in another league
--
public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road
: Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black
Re: AutoZeitung: GTR vs GT3
Walter:
MKSGR:
(which produce similar performance figures)
What? Why is the GT-R "significantly slower " while the Scuderia "produces similar performance figures" than the GT2?
I agree with you implication: if the Supertest results are indeed as speculated (and if also the HHR lap time of the GTR is acceptable) one could argue that the GTR offers "similar" track performance as GT2, GT3 or Scuderia. No doubt.
Of course there are still two major differentiation factors: (i) reliability / maintenance (due to overweight of GTR) and (ii) straight line performance (where the GTR seem to be significantly slower than even a standard 997TT above 200kph).
Re: AutoZeitung: GTR vs GT3
MKSGR:
Walter:
MKSGR:
(which produce similar performance figures)
What? Why is the GT-R "significantly slower " while the Scuderia "produces similar performance figures" than the GT2?
I agree with you implication: if the Supertest results are indeed as speculated (and if also the HHR lap time of the GTR is acceptable) one could argue that the GTR offers "similar" track performance as GT2, GT3 or Scuderia. No doubt.
Of course there are still two major differentiation factors: (i) reliability / maintenance (due to overweight of GTR) and (ii) straight line performance (where the GTR seem to be significantly slower than even a standard 997TT above 200kph).
Another crack in the Nissan's armour. Information is also gradually coming up that GT-R wet handling is very inconsistent in spite of AWD. This was even mentioned in the Autocar magazine test, in spit of the fact that the british generally love the Nissan.
--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts
Re: AutoZeitung: GTR vs GT3
Guys, I know a couple of people who seriously track raced their Porsche (mostly GT3) and who got warranty repairs refused because of the track racing. They were apparently dumb enough to tell the truth 
but in at least one case the dealer knew about it.
Now, what is "serious" track racing? Well...Club racing for example where you get some sort of trophy in the end. The Porsche Driving School for example does NOT fall under this category.
Back to the GT-R: I "met" one on the Autobahn in Austria, near the Europe Bridge (Brenner). We were fully loaded (M3 Cab DKG) and I tried to keep up with him but he was much faster, no chance. So at least the base performance on the straight line seems to be Porsche 997 Turbo-like, this is for sure.
Looks? Well...it looks better than I thought and it looks better than on pictures but it also looks like the "typical" japanese sports coupe, so I'm not sure how many of serious sportscar drivers would want to be seen in THIS. The color of this GT-R was some sort of "gold" paint but a bit lighter, not too intensive, don't know what this color is called by Nissan.
On the other hand, I can't imagine a less "understatement" supersportscar because honestly, the GT-R doesn't even look like 85000 EUR, the 370/390Z looks more expensive.
Probably the perfect car for people who like understatement and who don't live in a region where rice burners are actually worshipped.
--
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW
Re: AutoZeitung: GTR vs GT3
RC:
On the other hand, I can't imagine a less "understatement" supersportscar because honestly, the GT-R doesn't even look like 85000 EUR, the 370/390Z looks more expensive.
Totally agreed, the car looks cheap, but has a comfortable interior and is fast. There's a market for that.
But then again "understatement" and "GT-R" in one sentence is just too much right now 
Re: AutoZeitung: GTR vs GT3
MKSGR:
nberry:
The recent past President of Porsche NA continually spoke of the performance /price as the main reason to buy a Porsche. At the time he was correct. For the money, the performance delivered by a Porsche was second to none.
BTW, isn't the Porsche warranty voided if the breakdown is related to a track function?
--
No worries, the Porsche warranty is in tact - even if the car is used on the track.
BTW, I am convinced that the performance/price argument is still 100% valid. Of course, the GTR is priced very aggressively. However, if you can afford it I would always argue that a Porsche GT2/GT3 or even 997TT offers the better package.
I don't believe that is true in the US. You track it and a malfunction occurs related to the track event, your warranty is voided. Some are able to get around it with dealer help. But if the owner and dealer are honest regarding the cause being related to track event, the warranty is lost.
The GTR looks very aggressive on the street. But sadly, it also looks like a souped up ricer. Regarding price/performance the GT3 or TT can not compete with the GTR. However, I would be curious able resale value of the GTR. That would be an indication of the true value of the car. As of today, it is too early to tell. 
--
Forum
About Rennteam | Help | Terms of use | Privacy Policy | Support | Contact | Imprint | Archive
Powered by
Community
and
