CloseGiven that the GTR Supertest will be published in about 3 weeks I thought we might already start a thread discussing this "event of the year" 
First rumours (the Supertest was actually done very, very recently 
) indicate an NBR lap time of slightly (very slightly...) below 7.40.
If confirmed, this would be an outstanding result 
Meanwhile, I would still be happy as the GT2 is still faster 
(just kidding)
MKSGR:
Given that the GTR Supertest will be published in about 3 weeks I thought we might already start a thread discussing this "event of the year"
First rumours (the Supertest was actually done very, very recently
If confirmed, this would be an outstanding result
Which makes the Suzuki times credible. A delta of 10 -13 seconds out of 460 seconds between a magazine driver and a race driver with a mission to succeed, unlimited time and factory support is quite reasonable.
MKSGR:
If confirmed, this would be an outstanding result
The GT2 should be slightly faster in the hands of race drivers. In the hands of average trackers it would probably be a drivers race.
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HvS time was 7,38. Faster than the Scuderia. Slower than the GT2. Two conclusions
1. Nissan and Mr Suzuki did NOT cheat. I sounds plausible that Mr Suzuki could gain 11-12 sec from HvS.
2. Porsche's test drivers are useless and Porsche have really made a fool of themselves.
Orabidoo:
HvS time was 7,38. Faster than the Scuderia. Slower than the GT2. Two conclusions
1. Nissan and Mr Suzuki did NOT cheat. I sounds plausible that Mr Suzuki could gain 11-12 sec from HvS.
2. Porsche's test drivers are useless and Porsche have really made a fool of themselves.
Walter R is usually faster than HvS in Porsches. But he has no reason to run the fastest possible time in a GTR when his employer is Porsche.
I agree that Porsche have really made a fool of themselves. This will be a PR disaster for Porsche and cannot help their financial problems.
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Orabidoo:
HvS time was 7,38. Faster than the Scuderia. Slower than the GT2.
All kudos to HvS. He rose above national bias and achieved a credible time.
All kudos to Nissan for making the GTR so quick.. They will feel tremendously vindicated from Porsche's ill-founded accusations of cheating by this result.
I wonder if Porsche will issue a public apology.
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Hmm... So, W. Rohrl is a moron and just average race driver or Porsche puppet? You are directly suggesting something like that.
7.38min is a good time, just if we look at 7.29min then it is not that impressive. Actual difference is little bit too big. I spoke with my friend who is working at Motorpresse(company that publishes AMS and SA) and he said that HvS feels that maybe one or two extra secs can be extracted from GT-R. More? Even one well respected Ring race driver(actually a winner there) said after driving GT-R that 7.29min is NOT possible in stock German specs form.
Any way, kudos to Nissan. BTW, one of the Nissan Germany press GT-R experienced total DCT failure after just 2500km(of press abuse maybe?) after around 80kms on race track. Draw your own conclusion.
GT-R is apparently very fast and capable car in drive dynamics as well. Just, track tool it is not.
...and I am very glad that HvS proved to be much faster driver then all UK press members.
AUM:
MKSGR:
Given that the GTR Supertest will be published in about 3 weeks I thought we might already start a thread discussing this "event of the year"
First rumours (the Supertest was actually done very, very recently
If confirmed, this would be an outstanding result
Which makes the Suzuki times credible. A delta of 10 -13 seconds out of 460 seconds between a magazine driver and a race driver with a mission to succeed, unlimited time and factory support is quite reasonable.
While I see your point that a gap of 10-15s per NBR-NS lap could potentially still be explained by the driver I am similarly reluctant to believe in the Nissan claimed lap times as I am reluctant to believe in Porsche's 7.40 for the 997TT when SportAuto actually did a 7.52...
As Patrick Simon put it in a very recent video (comparing 997TT and GTR): there is a very remote chance that a crazy, reckless and extremely talented driver (Patrick Simon knows for sure what "talent" means ) might get close to Nissan's lap times. However, while saying this you see that he does not really believe in such "magic"... And Patrick Simon is not just anybody, in particular as the NBR-NS is concerned...
Orabidoo:
HvS time was 7,38. Faster than the Scuderia. Slower than the GT2. Two conclusions
1. Nissan and Mr Suzuki did NOT cheat. I sounds plausible that Mr Suzuki could gain 11-12 sec from HvS.
2. Porsche's test drivers are useless and Porsche have really made a fool of themselves.
I think your conclusions are not really "conclusions". I think that a 15s gap per lap is far too big to be justified by the driver (on that level of driving skills, of course). Similar case as in the 997TT debate: Porsche claims 7.40, SportAuto does 7.52. Manufacturer claims are not worth much in these cases. They need to sell cars.
AUM:
Orabidoo:
HvS time was 7,38. Faster than the Scuderia. Slower than the GT2. Two conclusions
1. Nissan and Mr Suzuki did NOT cheat. I sounds plausible that Mr Suzuki could gain 11-12 sec from HvS.
2. Porsche's test drivers are useless and Porsche have really made a fool of themselves.
Walter R is usually faster than HvS in Porsches. But he has no reason to run the fastest possible time in a GTR when his employer is Porsche.
I agree that Porsche have really made a fool of themselves. This will be a PR disaster for Porsche and cannot help their financial problems.
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You guys draw the wrong conclusions: the GT2 did 7.33 in the Supertest last year. This year it would be a tad faster given the new track conditions... Thus, the GTR is about 8s slower than the GT2. How can it then be that Nissan claims 7.26 and Porsche claims 7.32 for the GT2? Based on factory claims the GTR is 6s faster, based on reliable tests the GT2 is about 8s faster... The delta is 14s... Don't get fooled. The Nissan numbers are not consistent with independant tests 
AUM:
Orabidoo:
HvS time was 7,38. Faster than the Scuderia. Slower than the GT2.
All kudos to HvS. He rose above national bias and achieved a credible time.
All kudos to Nissan for making the GTR so quick.. They will feel tremendously vindicated from Porsche's ill-founded accusations of cheating by this result.
I wonder if Porsche will issue a public apology.
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Nissan should publish an accusation. Their numbers are far from the actual results 
KresoF1:
Even one well respected Ring race driver(actually a winner there) said after driving GT-R that 7.29min is NOT possible in stock German specs form..
That would be Patrick Simon - most likely? And he even said that after testing the GTR there (comparing it to the 997TT)
HvS is 16 seconds faster than Walter/Porsche in the GTR. Porsche claimed that the GTR could not lap the Ring faster than 7.54 without modifications or cheating. They were wrong and should apologize.
It is entirely possible that Suzuki, who is probably the fastest GTR driver at the Ring, is 12 seconds faster than HvS. Suzuki has factory support that probably optimized the suspension settings for a time attack, while still leaving the car stock.
Remember the first Suzuki time was 7.38, exactly the same as Sport Auto. It took Suzuki 18 months and thousands of laps to achieve the faster times.
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AUM:
HvS is 16 seconds faster than Walter/Porsche in the GTR. Porsche claimed that the GTR could not lap the Ring faster than 7.54 without modifications or cheating. They were wrong and should apologize.
It is entirely possible that Suzuki, who is probably the fastest GTR driver at the Ring, is 12 seconds faster than HvS. Suzuki has factory support that probably optimized the suspension settings for a time attack, while still leaving the car stock.
Remember the first Suzuki time was 7.38, exactly the same as Sport Auto. It took Suzuki 18 months and thousands of laps to achieve the faster times.
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I somehow understand Porsche's position... They play it fair as far as lap times of recent models is concerned (GT2, 997s, GT3 Mk2). If a competitor tries to influence potential buyers with misleading or wrong lap times they need to react
Let's assume for a moment that your theory about Suzuki was correct: then it would also be safe to assume that GT2 and GT3 can be driven around the ring much faster than SportAuto demonstrated.
Therefore, we need to compare comparable numbers. If - following the above logic - the GT2 was capable of 7.21 (i.e. 7.33 minus 12s), the GT3 was capable of 7.38 (7.40 minus 12s) and the GTR was capable of 7.27 (latest Nissan claim) the picture would still be fine. Same applies if we just look at the SportAuto numbers: GT2 is fastest, GTR approx. on GT3 level. 997TT slower.
What does not work is to compare the Nissan press numbers with SportAuto numbers. This will mislead potential buyers - and has mislead many people (including yourself - based on some of your older posts) on the Internet
The driver making the difference is all nonsense in my view. All these guys mentioned are fast and certainly on the same car the difference is not 12 seconds - maybe a few but not 12.
Of course doing thousands of laps (however long that takes and how many cars later) helps improve lap time and I am sure that if WR would get the chance to do a few more laps in the GT2/3 the times would improve as well. But what is the point 
We all want to know the time of a car based on a skilled driver getting in achieving it within a few laps without praying the whole lap.
HvS is a fast and competent driver who really knows the track.
At the end I bet that most of us cant even get to 8 Minutes in any of these cars 
Did everyone get to see the excellent analysis GT2 versus GTR by Chris Harris - it seems pretty convincing:
http://magazines.drivers-republic.com/driversrepublic/thetruth030/
2009 997 GT2 RS Tuning 542PS/736NM
So if the 7:38 is true, then I really don't see how a 7:26 would be impossible for someone who has driven the car on that track since the first test mule was build and done hundreds if not thousands of laps there. And let's keep in mind that he did 25 (!) Supertests with different Porsche models.
I'm curious to see how HvS drove it on the Nurburgring. Hopefully they will put the video on their website.
Also IIRC the 7:40 for the 997 Turbo was an estimation by a magazine, not a claim from Porsche.
Walter:
So if the 7:38 is true, then I really don't see how a 7:26 would be impossible for someone who has driven the car on that track since the first test mule was build and done hundreds if not thousands of laps there. And let's keep in mind that he did 25 (!) Supertests with different Porsche models.
I'm curious to see how HvS drove it on the Nurburgring. Hopefully they will put the video on their website.
Also IIRC the 7:40 for the 997 Turbo was an estimation by a magazine, not a claim from Porsche.
The 7.40+X is indeed a claim by Porsche... I was told that number by a Porsche test driver.
The argument is that drivers on a certain level will not differ as much as 12s in the same car...
Also, Porsche cars can have VERY different characters: For example you cannot compare a 997TT a GT2 and a 997s at all - they feel completely different. It would therefore be no advantage to do a test in the 997TT and then do a test in the GT2.
MKSGR:
The argument is that drivers on a certain level will not differ as much as 12s in the same car...
Ayrton Senna was regularly faster than Alain Prost by over a second in qualifying. In Suzuka and Monza 1989, the gap was 1.7 seconds. They also had the same car.
And Suzuki made it to F1 and even won the 24h of Daytona. Von Saurma or Simon or Alzen did not.
Actually, Patrick Simon is the record holder with a street legal car on the NBR-NS He did the NS in 7.15 on an EDO...
I doubt that a guy like Suzuki will be much quicker than him. Also, HvS has been broadly on par with Röhrl's NBR lap times many many times (CGT, GT2 etc.). Sure, Suzuki might be quicker than him - but 12s? Dream on 
MKSGR:
Actually, Patrick Simon is the record holder with a street legal car on the NBR-NS
I doubt that a guy like Suzuki will be much quicker than him. Also, HvS has been broadly on par with Röhrl's NBR lap times many many times (CGT, GT2 etc.). Sure, Suzuki might be quicker than him - but 12s? Dream on
Röhrl is 62 years old and he does his laps with traffic.
So because Simon has set a record for tuned cars makes him better than Suzuki?
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