hesperus:

MKSGR:

SciFrog:

 7.20? This is race car territory. This is getting ridiculous.

 

Only a few weeks until the SportAuto Supertest will be there... I bet some people at Nissan are already VERY nervous about this fact  No more PR fairy tales -  time of truth has arrived 

am eagerly awaiting this myself!  when is the Supertest?

i would be surprised indeed if HvS gets the same time as Nissan did.

HOWEVER, what if he manages say, a 7:30 time, in conditions roughly equal to the GT2's 7:33.

what should be the right reaction?

"I knew it all along, Nissan LIED about their times!"

OR

"oh my god, it really is legitimately faster than a GT2!"

 

In this (hypothetical) case the second answer would be the better 

However, as the true time will not be too far from 7.45 the first statement will have to be used in real life... 

MKSGR:

In this (hypothetical) case the second answer would be the better 

However, as the true time will not be too far from 7.45 the first statement will have to be used in real life... 

fair enough!  i'd have to say we are in agreement there then!

 Nissan GT-R wins 2009 One Lap of America

by Chris Paukert on May 11th 2009 at 7:29PM

2009 One Lap of America - Click above for a high-res image gallery

For the first time in the modern incarnation of One Lap of America, a Japanese car has claimed the top spot. After a grueling 3,400+ mile, nine racetrack odyssey around the United States, veteran "Lap Dog" Steve Rankins and "Lap Puppy" Will Taylor captured the overall trophy in their 2009 Nissan GT-R this weekend. The victory marks the first for a Nippon car since the event's 1986 running, when rallyist Karl Chevalier's Toyota Celica beat out fellow racer John Buffum's Audi 5000S wagon. OloA's timing and scoring procedures were markedly different at that point, however, as from 1985 to 1991, One Lap was essentially a time-speed-distance (TSD) rally.

With five-time defending champion Mark Davia and Drew Wikstrom taking the year off in their Porsche 911 Turbo, a new winner was assured, but for quite a while, it looked like another Stuttgart powerhouse would take the podium, as the 996 GT2 of Peter Lier and Ian Stewart held down the top position for much of the event. In the end, the consistency of the #3 Team Cannonball GT-R outlasted all comers – including the green #2 GT-R of Derek Whitis, Tom Long and Mark Pombo, which fell by the wayside when it was beset by gremlins (faulty boost controller pushing the ECU into limp mode, overheating, etc.). Along the way, the #3 GT-R was a consistent performer all week long, setting OloA's best-ever wet skidpad performance, a tidy 0.953g and winning events at Turfway Park, Talladega Grand Prix Raceway, Daytona International Raceway, Carolina Motorsports Park, and the BMW Performance Center. While stockpiling that many victories may make this year's race sound like a walk-off, tight competition from Lier and Stewart's 996 GT2 and the aforementioned #2 GT-R meant that the issue was in doubt almost until the very end.

www.autoblog.com/2009/05/11/nissan-gt-r-wins-2009-one-lap-of-america/

 GTR vs Porsche is also Japan vs Germany. Nobody in Europe would take any GTR vs Porsche comparison by  a Japanese magazine seriously. They clearly have a national bias.

....by the looks of it , it will no longer be GTR vs Porsche, but rather GTR vs VW.

AUM:

 GTR vs Porsche is also Japan vs Germany. Nobody in Europe would take any GTR vs Porsche comparison by  a Japanese magazine seriously. They clearly have a national bias.

 

Yet we are all waiting with baited breath for a German magazine (Sport Auto) with a German driver to be the ultimate arbitrator in the GTR vs Porsche battle. All other tests by all other magazines are deemed irrelevant by some SA fans. Does this seem reasonable given the underlying national interests and bias?

 

Sure! There is no other magazine (on an international level) with such a professional and comprehensive test procedure like SportAuto. Also, there are very many examples of non-German cars being very quick (compared to German test cars) in the Supertest. In addition, there are surprisingly poor result for German sports cars (997TT) in the Supertest.

Simple conclusion: People who suggest that the Supertest results are biased by "national bias" don't have a clue about what they talk... They should buy some SportAuto issues, do some reading exercise and then realize what I just typed above.

BTW, there are plenty of other tests that are in line with the SportAuto Supertest result of the GTR (if you exclude these Japanese video clips which could hardly be called "tests" and the US magazine tests on partly sand covered desert tracks ). The picture is very consistent. You just need to use own experience and judgement (if existent) to interpret some of the numbers floating in the net.

The SportAuto Supertest will just highlight what is already obvious from the numbers available to date: slightly faster than 997TT (pre-FL), of course slower than Scuderia or GT2. We know now that there will be a gap between the GTR's one-lap performance and the car's potential over a significant number of laps. This will not be reflected in the SportAuto numbers, though.

 Beating or equaling the Turbo for much less cost was the GTR's mission statement. This is already mission accomplished for the GTR.

The fact that the GTR is even being compared to the Scud and GT2 and rated very close in performance by most magazines is quite remarkable. As s the fact that the GTR can corner faster than both of these supercars.

And it looks like the V-spec will just beat the GT2 and Scud over any number of laps. 

Let's put aside national and brand bias and give credit where it is due.

--

AUM:

 Beating or equaling the Turbo for much less cost was the GTR's mission statement. This is already mission accomplished for the GTR.

The fact that the GTR is even being compared to the Scud and GT2 and rated very close in performance by most magazines is quite remarkable. As s the fact that the GTR can corner faster than both of these supercars.

I agree about this.

GTR's main rival was 997 Turbo when it first introduced to public, but the GTR's performance is noticeable faster than TT so that people start to compare it against GT2 which, in my opinion, is in another league.

However, even comparing a GTR against a GT2 or Scuderia is a HUGE achievement by Nissan  BMW doesn't even have a rival against GTR and that is a big SHAME  

ONUR

09 Audi TTS Ibis

07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)

AUM:

 Beating or equaling the Turbo for much less cost was the GTR's mission statement. This is already mission accomplished for the GTR.

--

I read something yesterday that said the GT-R V-Spec ceramic brakes were worth $50,000. The engine is worth $80,000 and the transmission is worth $15,000. I don't think the price of the GT-R reflects the cost of the vehicle. So what ever the list of Nissan's goals, making a profit on that car is not one of them. It's probably being funded primarily as a marketing and R&D mission. So yes, the GT-R is a great value for the money.

JoeRockhead:

I read something yesterday that said the GT-R V-Spec ceramic brakes were worth $50,000. The engine is worth $80,000 and the transmission is worth $15,000. I don't think the price of the GT-R reflects the cost of the vehicle. So what ever the list of Nissan's goals, making a profit on that car is not one of them. It's probably being funded primarily as a marketing and R&D mission. So yes, the GT-R is a great value for the money.

I agree, it obvious its not sold for a profit, the problem with an artificially low pricetag is that its am apparent  good value... until you have a failed tranny, worn discs, or engine problem ask MY'08 owners who's tranny blew up along with their warranty for disconnecting the ESP Then there is the high maintenence and running costs of this car, and the resale value... so inicially yes, but in the end I'm not sure its such a value.

--

Carlos from Spain:

JoeRockhead:

I read something yesterday that said the GT-R V-Spec ceramic brakes were worth $50,000. The engine is worth $80,000 and the transmission is worth $15,000. I don't think the price of the GT-R reflects the cost of the vehicle. So what ever the list of Nissan's goals, making a profit on that car is not one of them. It's probably being funded primarily as a marketing and R&D mission. So yes, the GT-R is a great value for the money.

I agree, it obvious its not sold for a profit, the problem with an artificially low pricetag is that its am apparent  good value... until you have a failed tranny, worn discs, or engine problem ask MY'08 owners who's tranny blew up along with their warranty for disconnecting the ESP Then there is the high maintenence and running costs of this car, and the resale value... so inicially yes, but in the end I'm not sure its such a value.

 

Owners won't be able to give it away after the warranty runs out. I'm speculating, but a lot of people who buy this car probably wouldn't have the cash to replace an $80,000 engine if it breaks. "Buyer beware" I guess.

Just FYI Stewart and Lier's 996GT2 hit 2 cones during the auto-x at the BMW performance center. The 20 second penalty that ensued is what cost them the One Lap victory

track vid

0-300kph

chasing a 997GT2

JoeRockhead:

Owners won't be able to give it away after the warranty runs out. I'm speculating, but a lot of people who buy this car probably wouldn't have the cash to replace an $80,000 engine if it breaks. "Buyer beware" I guess.

How many of these cars will be leased or bought on loans rather than bought outright  anyway?

Can you lease a replacement engine?   

fritz

AUM:

 Beating or equaling the Turbo for much less cost was the GTR's mission statement. This is already mission accomplished for the GTR.

The fact that the GTR is even being compared to the Scud and GT2 and rated very close in performance by most magazines is quite remarkable. As s the fact that the GTR can corner faster than both of these supercars.

And it looks like the V-spec will just beat the GT2 and Scud over any number of laps. 

Let's put aside national and brand bias and give credit where it is due.

 

--

I don't think the V-Spec will be much faster than the regular GTR. The V-Spec is a big disappointment.

eclou:

Just FYI Stewart and Lier's 996GT2 hit 2 cones during the auto-x at the BMW performance center. The 20 second penalty that ensued is what cost them the One Lap victory

Nope,

We ran as if Ian didn't pick up those cones. Check the point totals we had them covered w/o the penalty assessed. We told them this straight out after it happened. "that penalty didn't count as far as we are concerned. call BMW a wash since the raw times were within 0.2sec of each other. we are going to race you like it's still a 20 point spread from now until the end".

I must give due respect to Ian and Peter for keeping it interesting everyday. They became our friends and main competitors during the One Lap event. We look forward to lining up aginst them in 2010.

MKSGR:

I don't think the V-Spec will be much faster than the regular GTR. The V-Spec is a big disappointment.

Have you readt the test from Sport Auto?

Carlos from Spain:

JoeRockhead:

I read something yesterday that said the GT-R V-Spec ceramic brakes were worth $50,000. The engine is worth $80,000 and the transmission is worth $15,000. I don't think the price of the GT-R reflects the cost of the vehicle. So what ever the list of Nissan's goals, making a profit on that car is not one of them. It's probably being funded primarily as a marketing and R&D mission. So yes, the GT-R is a great value for the money.

I agree, it obvious its not sold for a profit, the problem with an artificially low pricetag is that its am apparent  good value... until you have a failed tranny, worn discs, or engine problem ask MY'08 owners who's tranny blew up along with their warranty for disconnecting the ESP Then there is the high maintenence and running costs of this car, and the resale value... so inicially yes, but in the end I'm not sure its such a value.

 

People were also saying that about the Corvette but the truth was that the Corvetee is one of the very few cars that are profitable for GM.

I don't know why the prices are so high but I don't think it has something to do with production costs. The Spec V trunk lid emblem costs $1500.

Walter:

MKSGR:

I don't think the V-Spec will be much faster than the regular GTR. The V-Spec is a big disappointment.

Have you readt the test from Sport Auto?

Sure, the test is quite positive. However, the V-Spec has no more hp than the regular GTR, weight is just some 50kg less (still very heavy car). Of course, tires and better brakes will also add some advantage. In summary, these are still smaller changes which cannot have a huge impact on lap times... Also, the V-Spec will only be available in few countries.

Walter:

The Spec V trunk lid emblem costs $1500.

That's to keep ricers from sticking them on their Sentra's.

Walter:

Carlos from Spain:

JoeRockhead:

I read something yesterday that said the GT-R V-Spec ceramic brakes were worth $50,000. The engine is worth $80,000 and the transmission is worth $15,000. I don't think the price of the GT-R reflects the cost of the vehicle. So what ever the list of Nissan's goals, making a profit on that car is not one of them. It's probably being funded primarily as a marketing and R&D mission. So yes, the GT-R is a great value for the money.

I agree, it obvious its not sold for a profit, the problem with an artificially low pricetag is that its am apparent  good value... until you have a failed tranny, worn discs, or engine problem ask MY'08 owners who's tranny blew up along with their warranty for disconnecting the ESP Then there is the high maintenence and running costs of this car, and the resale value... so inicially yes, but in the end I'm not sure its such a value.

 

People were also saying that about the Corvette but the truth was that the Corvetee is one of the very few cars that are profitable for GM.

I don't know why the prices are so high but I don't think it has something to do with production costs. The Spec V trunk lid emblem costs $1500.

I' ve only heard that about the Z06 version in particular, not the mass produced regular version which Im sure was quite profitable, but the Z06 was used as their flagship for marketing purposes hence the limited production and was a great bang for the buck, which personally I would take over a GT-R hands downbecause ts a proper sportcar (RWD, MANUAL, lighter, impresive engine, coupe, etc)

babelfish translation

66.196.80.202/babelfish/translate_url_content

 Already on the first meters on the Grand Prix course of the Nürburgring makes the SpecV almost violent an impression. The faith in the 1.7 tons shrinks. Whether lengthwise or also transversedynamically: felt 1,400 Kilos. Maximally. More not. 

  www.sportauto-online.de/fahrberichte/nissan-gt-r-specv-auf-dem-nuerburgring-1265772.html

19. Mai 2009, 13:32 

Nissan GT-R SpecV im Fahrbericht auf dem Nürburgring

 

Wie fährt sich der Über-Nissan im Vergleich zum Porsche Turbo auf dem GP-Kurs?

Während die Sportwagenwelt den Nissan GT-R mit Spannung erwartet, zündeln die Japaner bereits an einer noch schärferen Stufe. Bei der ersten Begegnung mit der technisch verfeinerten SpecV-Version zeigt sich, dass der Allradler noch reichlich Potenzial in sich birgt

Bilder

Thumbnails

Video

‹ zurückBild 1 von 34weiter ›

 

--

They say brakes of the 911 GT2 are better (GT-R: max 12,3 m/s², avg from 231kph to 73kph: 10,8 m/s²). The GT-R has better accelleration and around the corner it's a tough call, we have to wait for the supertest which will come soon but not with the V-Spec.

The article starts with a nice japanese proverb: Patience is the art of getting angry slower.

The Chart:

Eunice:

They say brakes of the 911 GT2 are better (GT-R: max 12,3 m/s², avg from 231kph to 73kph: 10,8 m/s²). The GT-R has better accelleration and around the corner it's a tough call, we have to wait for the supertest which will come soon but not with the V-Spec.

The article starts with a nice japanese proverb: Patience is the art of getting angry slower.

This is the article published in SportAuto last month. I was a bit disappointed as the article does not even specify which tires were installed on the 997TT or whether the car was equipped with LSD. Thus, the test was a bit useless for my personal taste 

MKSGR:

Eunice:

They say brakes of the 911 GT2 are better (GT-R: max 12,3 m/s², avg from 231kph to 73kph: 10,8 m/s²). The GT-R has better accelleration and around the corner it's a tough call, we have to wait for the supertest which will come soon but not with the V-Spec.

The article starts with a nice japanese proverb: Patience is the art of getting angry slower.

This is the article published in SportAuto last month. I was a bit disappointed as the article does not even specify which tires were installed on the 997TT or whether the car was equipped with LSD. Thus, the test was a bit useless for my personal taste 

Yes it is, the article doesn't contain much, it's just teasing for the upcoming supertest. I guess I pretty much summed it up with two sentences and the chart :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM8UOL4Io0M

Is the title of this thread "Nissan V-Spec slower than standard GTR..." still true?

Shouldn't we change it if it is not true anymore?  

We could add a question mark to the thread title, as this is what this thread is about.

The video shows pretty clear that while the V-Spec has advantages in some areas, it cannot be considered "faster" than the standard GT-R.

Eunice:

We could add a question mark to the thread title, as this is what this thread is about.

The video shows pretty clear that while the V-Spec has advantages in some areas, it cannot be considered "faster" than the standard GT-R.

CAR Magazine tested the SpecV and it was approximately 7 seconds faster than the GT-R.

Walter:

Eunice:

We could add a question mark to the thread title, as this is what this thread is about.

The video shows pretty clear that while the V-Spec has advantages in some areas, it cannot be considered "faster" than the standard GT-R.

CAR Magazine tested the SpecV and it was approximately 7 seconds faster than the GT-R.

That test is probably very useless: even Nissan does not claim a time difference in that dimension... Eunice is right - the V-Spec has not undergone a reliable test. Nobody can tell whether the car is faster than the GTR (although it should be - given the very substantial mark-up).