Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Nissan V-Spec slower than standard GTR... - Page5

Apr 18, 2009 6:25:30 PM

JoeRockhead: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Topside , Monaco; Posts: 8033, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 17, 2007; Reply to: Walter

Re: Nissan V-Spec slower than standard GTR...

Walter:

I could show you some lap times where I wouldn't need any excuses. But the list isn't finished. I could also add that the GT-R has less power and more weight and rear seats and runflats and costs about 100'000 euros less. I think my list to explain the 7 seconds difference is complete now.

Less power than what?

"Dyno Test: 2009 Nissan GT-R Makes 507 Horsepower... at least!"

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_0803_2009_nissan_gt_r_dyno_test/index.html

"On MotorCity Speed’s Mustang dyno in Commerce Township, Michigan, GT-R No. 4 produced a peak of 415 horsepower at the wheels. Based on our 20-percent loss estimate, the engine output was 519, or 39 horsepower more than Nissan’s stated 480."

" Clearly, Nissan is delivering more than the advertised 480 horsepower. And the most likely figure is about 520,..."

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/columns/c_d_staff/larry_webster/what_is_the_gt_r_s_real_horsepower_column

The Car and Driver article talks about difference of 0.6 in the quarter mile between their press car and the subsequent ones. There's no question the Nissan is a fast car but Nissan's claims on power are BS. It sure sounds better to say it's got the same power as a TT than saying it actually has about 40 more HP.

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Apr 24, 2009 1:43:54 PM

AUM: Veteran; Loc: Germany; Posts: 1203, Gallery; Registered on: May 2, 2006; Reply to: JoeRockhead

Re: Nissan V-Spec slower than standard GTR...

Nissan claims a time of 7.26.7 today at the Nordschleife.

They are still testing and have until 17.00 this afternoon to try and better it.

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Apr 24, 2009 1:51:52 PM

Gauss: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Luxembourg , Luxembourg; Posts: 5822, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 3, 2003; Reply to: AUM

Re: Nissan V-Spec slower than standard GTR...

When I was at the Ring last Tuesday, there was this group of japanese with a TV crew. They had randomly asked people for their opinion about the GTR.

Both cars, the GTR and the Turbo had english plates if I recall correctly, although the GTR was a LHD!

Here is a crappy pic taken with my iphone:

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Apr 24, 2009 5:01:23 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: AUM

Re: Nissan V-Spec slower than standard GTR...

Based on rumours WR did a 7.19 on Tuesday with a stock GT2. The track conditions seem to have changed quite significantly compared to last year.... Lap times are a bit better now Smiley

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Apr 24, 2009 5:07:36 PM

AUM: Veteran; Loc: Germany; Posts: 1203, Gallery; Registered on: May 2, 2006; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Nissan V-Spec slower than standard GTR...

MKSGR:

Based on rumours WR did a 7.19 on Tuesday with a stock GT2. The track conditions seem to have changed quite significantly compared to last year.... Lap times are a bit better now

Which would make the GTR time credible.

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Apr 27, 2009 12:40:33 PM

AUM: Veteran; Loc: Germany; Posts: 1203, Gallery; Registered on: May 2, 2006; Reply to: AUM

Re: Nissan V-Spec slower than standard GTR...

The Nissan HPC near Karlsruhe in Germany got 8 GTRs last week. Some German deliveries start this week.

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Apr 29, 2009 6:25:41 AM

AUM: Veteran; Loc: Germany; Posts: 1203, Gallery; Registered on: May 2, 2006; Reply to: AUM

Re: Nissan V-Spec slower than standard GTR...

Some interesting info on the V-spec top speed at the Ring.

DR got the GTR to 272kph at Döttinger Höhe (which seems slow).

V-spec 297km/h (184.6MPH) from Nissan data log at Döttinger Höhe (according to gtr.co.uk).

Driver's Republic also has a screenshot of the datalog output from the GTR's 7m29s lap with a top speed of 290km/h

Some other Döttinger Höhe Trap Speeds:

1. Koenigsegg CCX 190.0 MPH

2. Ferrari Enzo 189.2 MPH

3. Maserati MC12 185.5 MPH

4. Porsche Carrera GT 183.5 MPH

5. Pagani Zonda F 181.6 MPH

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Apr 29, 2009 6:59:14 AM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: AUM

Re: Nissan V-Spec slower than standard GTR...

The good news is that any speculations about Nissan claims will be replaced by discussions about the GTR Supertest results rather soon. From what I heard, the first German customer cars are in the process of being delivered. It won't be long now until we have reliable test data...

P.S.: It is safe to assume by now that the GTR suffers at speeds above 200kph (US 0-300 test, Sportauto test, DR, videos on the Net). Therefore, I consider it impossible that the GTR (or V-Spec) will ever get close to those speeds mentioned by Nissan above

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Apr 29, 2009 8:08:38 AM

AUM: Veteran; Loc: Germany; Posts: 1203, Gallery; Registered on: May 2, 2006; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Nissan V-Spec slower than standard GTR...

MKSGR:

The good news is that any speculations about Nissan claims will be replaced by discussions about the GTR Supertest results rather soon. From what I heard, the first German customer cars are in the process of being delivered. It won't be long now until we have reliable test data...

P.S.: It is safe to assume by now that the GTR suffers at speeds above 200kph (US 0-300 test, Sportauto test, DR, videos on the Net). Therefore, I consider it impossible that the GTR (or V-Spec) will ever get close to those speeds mentioned by Nissan above

Yes the SA test will be very interesting.

Here is the datalog of the 7.29 lap.

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Apr 29, 2009 2:24:30 PM

Walter: Pilot; Loc:; Posts: 453, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 20, 2006; Reply to: AUM

Re: Nissan V-Spec slower than standard GTR...

Sport Auto test drove the SpecV. They said it was nearly 3 seconds faster than the 997 Turbo on the Nurburgring GP circuit. Now I don't know if it's whole part that they use for example in the 24h race or just the part that they showed on the graph (1750m long). The SpecV was also faster on the straights. And if the SpecV is slower than the standard GT-R....lol

What was also interesting was that the car they had was a LHD.

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Apr 29, 2009 2:48:39 PM

JoeRockhead: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Topside , Monaco; Posts: 8033, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 17, 2007; Reply to: Walter

Re: Nissan V-Spec slower than standard GTR...

Walter:

Sport Auto test drove the SpecV. They said it was nearly 3 seconds faster than the 997 Turbo on the Nurburgring GP circuit. Now I don't know if it's whole part that they use for example in the 24h race or just the part that they showed on the graph (1750m long). The SpecV was also faster on the straights. And if the SpecV is slower than the standard GT-R....lol

What was also interesting was that the car they had was a LHD.

Do you have a link to the source?

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May 6, 2009 10:24:33 AM

AUM: Veteran; Loc: Germany; Posts: 1203, Gallery; Registered on: May 2, 2006; Reply to: JoeRockhead

Re: Nissan V-Spec slower than standard GTR...

This is probably the first review of a Euro-spec (UK) GTR.

www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/RoadTestsHistory/Nissan-GT-R-3.8-V6-Black-Edition/239872/

From Autocar:

You only have to look at the GT-R’s lap time around our dry handling circuit – only just shy of the Ferrari 430 Scuderia and Porsche 911 GT2, despite its inferior power-to-weight ratio – to realise that it has one or two tricks in its handling bag. Traction is just one. But what gives the GT-R its staggering pace is remarkable stiffness, not just in the suspension set-up but the shell construction. Over bumpy roads the ride is reasonably busy. But on a smoother, the GT-R can use this rigidity to generate incredible lateral grip.

Fast and, yes, quite furious. Performance comes no easier, yet it’s possible to be left a little cold by the GT-R at first. It doesn’t feel special to sit in, and it’s hard, harsh, loud and clinical in the way it goes about things. On a 20-minute test drive it may not worm its way into a potential buyer’s affections.

Partly that’s because of the efficiency and effortlessness of its performance. It goes at the dry-weather pace of a 430 Scuderia or 911 GT2 with nonchalant ease, its engine is as smooth at 6000rpm as it is at 2000 and its gearbox shifts with totally undramatic efficiency. The longer you spend with the GT-R, the more you uncover new movements in its dynamic repertoire and the more visceral, thrilling and alive with feedback and response it seems. There are hidden depths to its brutish, frill-free performance. The longer you have it, the more you want it.

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May 6, 2009 11:32:15 AM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21152, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: AUM

Re: Nissan V-Spec slower than standard GTR...

only just shy of the Ferrari 430 Scuderia and Porsche 911 GT2
--

I stopped reading after that pearl...

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May 6, 2009 11:42:58 AM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: AUM

Re: Nissan V-Spec slower than standard GTR...

In the test summary there is a comment about " Inconsistent wet-weather handling". No further details in the narrative, though. Smiley .

I'll try to get the magazine in case there is some more info.

--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

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May 6, 2009 8:00:52 PM

REALZEUS: Expert; Loc: UK and Greece , United Kingdom; Posts: 1611, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 24, 2008; Reply to: reginos

Re: Nissan V-Spec slower than standard GTR...

Autocar is a well known rag. They say that the track performance is shy of a Scud or a GT2, yet they don't provide track testing data for any of the aforrementioned cars. Not to mention that they did not care to elaborate on that wet weather handling issue they mentioned.

--
FERRARI RULES!!!

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May 7, 2009 7:54:59 AM

AUM: Veteran; Loc: Germany; Posts: 1203, Gallery; Registered on: May 2, 2006; Reply to: REALZEUS

Re: Nissan V-Spec slower than standard GTR...

Quotes from Autocar Magazine (print version) 6th May 2009

"GT-R is not quite the wet weather master you might expect. A combination of relatively aggressive rubber and turbo power delivery make it quite a handful around our narrow wet track.

WET CIRCUIT

Nissan GT-R - 1min 14.2sec

Audi R8 4.2 V8 - 1min 8.2sec"

...and for the dry circuit -

"The GT-R's pace comes from an ability to get the power down with minimum drama and incredibly strong brakes. It's a touch clinical to drive compared with the 430 Scuderia, but at the limit the GT-R is still an involving car.

DRY CIRCUIT

Nissan GT-R - 1min 10.1sec

Audi R8 4.2 V8 - 1min 13.5sec"

The wet and dry circuit layouts are different, so times are not comparable.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/blogs/stillatthewheel/archive/2008/10/08/296.aspx

Some other Autocar Dry Lap times

Car Time Conditions

Porsche 997 GT3 1.12.5 Dry, cloudy, 8 deg

Ferrari 599GTB 1.12.68 Dry, sunny, 18 deg

Porsche 997 Turbo 1.14.45 Dry, cloudy, 23 deg

Lamborghini LP640 1.14.7 Dry, cloudy 18 deg

BMW M5 1.16.15 Dry, cloudy, 23 deg

Porsche 911 Carrera S 1.16.8 Dry, cloudy, 9 deg

Audi RS4 1.16.9 Greasy, bright, 3 deg

Aston V8 Vantage Cpe 1.18.0 Dry, cloudy, 9 deg

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May 7, 2009 10:13:04 AM

Enzo II: Veteran; Loc: Spain , Spain; Posts: 1248, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 1, 2006; Reply to: AUM

Re: Nissan V-Spec slower than standard GTR...

Spanish AUTOMOVIL, May

Turbo Tiptronic

0-100kmh 3.61s

0-1000m 21.12s

Lap time 1.09,60

GT-R

0-100kmh 3.84

0-1000m 21.39s

Lap time 1.08,52

R8 V8 R-tronic

0-100kmh 4.84s

0-1000m 23.76s

Lap time 1.11,21

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May 7, 2009 3:28:28 PM

Walter: Pilot; Loc:; Posts: 453, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 20, 2006; Reply to: JoeRockhead

Re: Nissan V-Spec slower than standard GTR...

JoeRockhead:

Do you have a link to the source?

Should be on their website soon.

edit: and it's the GT2 I was talking about. It has more power than the GT-R.

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May 8, 2009 7:05:37 AM

AUM: Veteran; Loc: Germany; Posts: 1203, Gallery; Registered on: May 2, 2006; Reply to: Walter

Re: Nissan V-Spec slower than standard GTR...

The GT-R is not a good wet weather performer.

Even Suzuki is taking it somewhat easy at the Nordschleife in this half-wet lap. (VDC is off).

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May 8, 2009 11:42:05 AM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21152, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: AUM

Re: Nissan V-Spec slower than standard GTR...

That sort of performance differences is consistent with tires that are made to give and extra advantage over regular tires in dry at the expense of wet performance, such as R-compound Cups on the M3-CSL, etc.

And the GT-R being a sophisticated very intrusive AWD car, to show that sort of difference of dry vs wet, means the influence of tire must be huge, because such cars are the ones show their best compared to other cars in the wet.

Wonder what would happen if you would fit the regular "non-GT-R specific" version tires to the GT-R and then go for a dry lap

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May 8, 2009 5:56:45 PM

AUM: Veteran; Loc: Germany; Posts: 1203, Gallery; Registered on: May 2, 2006; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: Nissan V-Spec slower than standard GTR...

Carlos from Spain:

That sort of performance differences is consistent with tires that are made to give and extra advantage over regular tires in dry at the expense of wet performance, such as R-compound Cups on the M3-CSL, etc.

And the GT-R being a sophisticated very intrusive AWD car, to show that sort of difference of dry vs wet, means the influence of tire must be huge, because such cars are the ones show their best compared to other cars in the wet.

Wonder what would happen if you would fit the regular "non-GT-R specific" version tires to the GT-R and then go for a dry lap

I drove the GTR with P-Zero tyres at the Nürburgring GP circuit. I am used to tracking very fast cars and its grip levels were at the highest level. I also had a few (gut wrenching extreme g-force) passenger laps with a race driver and he said the P-Zero tyres were very close in dry performance to the originals.

The GTR tyres are sticky, but not as sticky as Cups; maybe similar to Cup+.

And they are also runflats.

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May 11, 2009 11:02:56 AM

dimis: Junior; Loc: Greece,Larissa , Greece; Posts: 147, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 7, 2006; Reply to: AUM

Re: Nissan V-Spec slower than standard GTR...

we had the first test here in Greece for the GT-R from a Greek magazine http://www.4troxoi.gr/default.php?pname=eBook&teuxos_id=10

take look the performance

0-100km=4.0sec

0-400m=11,9sec

0-1000m=21.7

not so quick i suppose

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May 11, 2009 4:09:02 PM

andrea: Rennteam Master; Loc: Italy, Pordenone , Italy; Posts: 3569, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 24, 2003; Reply to: dimis

Re: Nissan V-Spec slower than standard GTR...

dimis:

we had the first test here in Greece for the GT-R from a Greek magazine http://www.4troxoi.gr/default.php?pname=eBook&teuxos_id=10

take look the performance

0-100km=4.0sec

0-400m=11,9sec

0-1000m=21.7

not so quick i suppose

interesting...not same league but c63 amg on ita mag did 22,3 on 0-100mt

--
Dedi La vita è troppo corta per non guidare italiano.....

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May 11, 2009 9:40:40 PM

AUM: Veteran; Loc: Germany; Posts: 1203, Gallery; Registered on: May 2, 2006; Reply to: andrea

Re: Nissan V-Spec slower than standard GTR...

www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp

Driving Impression: 2009 Nissan GT-R SpecV

You sense its true value only by driving it.

There's no wheel chirp when the SpecV leaves the line, just a smooth non-dramatic pop. When the engine is fully unleashed, it revs so fast that you have to anticipate reaching the rev limiter, flicking the upshift paddle just as it hits 7000 rpm. The SpecV is more than 130 lb. lighter, and you can feel the difference when leaving the line. Our black test car hit 60 mph in 3.2 seconds. Once the upshift to 4th was made, the car's High Geared Boost Control kicks in, giving you an added shot of power in gears 4, 5 and 6. This technology was created to help the SpecV squirt out of medium-speed corners, providing an extra helping of torque at lower engine speeds. It also helped the car post an impressive quarter-mile time of 11.3 seconds at 124.8 mph.

The SpecV's stopping power was phenomenal. Giant carbon ceramic vented discs have been installed front and rear, along with special ceramic pads. They combined to provide amazing stopping power and little fade, even after extended hot-lapping. By themselves, these brakes cost an astounding $50,000 per set.

On a handling course, the SpecV handled like a lightweight sports car, with improved steering feel and response. The car's basic suspension setup remains the same, but the SpecV gets special Bilstein shocks, which kept the GT-R SpecV composed through all types of corners and provided a surprisingly even ride. And it scorched our handling tests, weaving through the slalom at 74.6 mph and circling the skidpad at 1.10g

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May 11, 2009 9:53:46 PM

AUM: Veteran; Loc: Germany; Posts: 1203, Gallery; Registered on: May 2, 2006; Reply to: AUM

Re: Nissan V-Spec slower than standard GTR...

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May 11, 2009 10:03:05 PM

AUM: Veteran; Loc: Germany; Posts: 1203, Gallery; Registered on: May 2, 2006; Reply to: AUM

Re: Nissan V-Spec slower than standard GTR...

www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp

This means that the engine output remains roughly the same, at 480 bhp, but the car should be quicker thanks to more torque (we hear 470 lb.-ft.) that peaks from 3200 to 5500 rpm. Other modifications include a titanium-coated exhaust system and carbon-ceramic brakes (a set of these is rumored to run $50,000). The performance of the SpecV will be measured at the Nürburgring, where Nissan is aiming to break 7 minutes 20 seconds around the 12.9-mile track, making it a natural competitor to the Porsche 911 GT2.

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May 12, 2009 3:55:15 AM

SciFrog: Rennteam VIP; Loc: USA , United States; Posts: 9870, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 15, 2005; Reply to: AUM

Re: Nissan V-Spec slower than standard GTR...

7.20? This is race car territory. This is getting ridiculous.

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May 12, 2009 6:50:55 AM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: SciFrog

Re: Nissan V-Spec slower than standard GTR...

SciFrog:

7.20? This is race car territory. This is getting ridiculous.

Only a few weeks until the SportAuto Supertest will be there... I bet some people at Nissan are already VERY nervous about this fact Smiley No more PR fairy tales - time of truth has arrived Smiley

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May 12, 2009 8:24:58 AM

hesperus: Junior; Loc: Philippines; Posts: 110, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 28, 2004; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Nissan V-Spec slower than standard GTR...

MKSGR:

SciFrog:

7.20? This is race car territory. This is getting ridiculous.

Only a few weeks until the SportAuto Supertest will be there... I bet some people at Nissan are already VERY nervous about this fact No more PR fairy tales - time of truth has arrived

am eagerly awaiting this myself! when is the Supertest?

i would be surprised indeed if HvS gets the same time as Nissan did.

HOWEVER, what if he manages say, a 7:30 time, in conditions roughly equal to the GT2's 7:33.

what should be the right reaction?

"I knew it all along, Nissan LIED about their times!"

OR

"oh my god, it really is legitimately faster than a GT2!"

Smiley

--
'07 Cayenne TT '06 Ruf RT12 '06 GT3 '06 Jeep SRT8 '03 911 TT '99 MB E55 '98 Evo 5 '87 BMW M3

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May 12, 2009 8:36:47 AM

Spyderidol: Rennteam Master; Loc: Mozambique; Posts: 5807, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 25, 2007; Reply to: hesperus

Re: Nissan V-Spec slower than standard GTR...

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You sense its true value only by driving it.

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