Crown

 The F450 will cost close to $300k...

It will be harsh and depleted like a scud.

Two different buyers...

 The 450 will cost around 225-250,000 depending on the economy. The Spider higher.

Not a chance.

IMHO it will be priced at Scuderia levels, because the performance will be at scud levels...

A DBS is $250k, no chance the 450 comes below that.

SciFrog:

Not a chance.

IMHO it will be priced at Scuderia levels, because the performance will be at scud levels...

A DBS is $250k, no chance the 450 comes below that.

Just saw a Gallardo coupe at Manhattan Motorcars listed for $265k (including options). You can bank on the F450 costing a bit more. And that's before the usual dealer mark-ups.
 

 The 430 coupe was priced below 200,000. How on earth can Ferrari increase the price by 33%? They would be crazy to do so.

When times were good they were maximizing their profits with  prices they were charging for the 430. Who would be crazy enough to pay another $100,000 when the standard of living for most has gone down and people are downsizing regardless of their income level. In my view, if they can get 250,000 they would be stretching it. Ferrari in essence capped the price of the car when it produced the Ca GT. The brand exclusivity which drove high prices has been severely compromised.

BTW, have you seen the prices of the Scud lately? Hell, they cannot sell them and the scud is a limited production car. The used car Ferrari market has cratered.

--

nberry:

 The 430 coupe was priced below 200,000. How on earth can Ferrari increase the price by 33%? They would be crazy to do so.

When times were good they were maximizing their profits with  prices they were charging for the 430. Who would be crazy enough to pay another $100,000 when the standard of living for most has gone down and people are downsizing regardless of their income level. In my view, if they can get 250,000 they would be stretching it. Ferrari in essence capped the price of the car when it produced the Ca GT. The brand exclusivity which drove high prices has been severely compromised.

They are probably trying to compensate for the slide  in the value of the US$ against the Euro.

They probably also saw the dealers marking up over and above MRSP and thought "We'll have some of that".
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fritz

 They also have to price is significantly higher than the Cali GT... $260 base is my bet, with most cars around $275...

Don't forget all new cars have ceramics which raised he base price a lot...

SciFrog:

 They also have to price is significantly higher than the Cali GT... $260 base is my bet, with most cars around $275...

Don't forget all new cars have ceramics which raised he base price a lot...

The expression "sticker shock" is likely to get a lot of use in the near future..........

fritz

fritz:

nberry:

 The 430 coupe was priced below 200,000. How on earth can Ferrari increase the price by 33%? They would be crazy to do so.

When times were good they were maximizing their profits with  prices they were charging for the 430. Who would be crazy enough to pay another $100,000 when the standard of living for most has gone down and people are downsizing regardless of their income level. In my view, if they can get 250,000 they would be stretching it. Ferrari in essence capped the price of the car when it produced the Ca GT. The brand exclusivity which drove high prices has been severely compromised.

They are probably trying to compensate for the slide  in the value of the US$ against the Euro.

They probably also saw the dealers marking up over and above MRSP and thought "We'll have some of that".
--

fritz

During the recent 6 months the dollar has regained some of it's value, furthermore currencies will stabalise once economic recovery has resumed. Besides that, no manucafurer put themselves out of balance my bumping up prices to those levels. There are competitors and customers to consider.

As for dealers marking up prices, it's the bi-effect of exclusivity and is something Ferrari are fully aware of. If profit was their main passion for conducting business then they can easily bump up the production and make a few extra coins. The California will be the bread and butter of the company but it would be unrealistic to position the F430 successor a bit higher in order to create a bigger gap between it and the California, and maybe even lowering the production. In that way F450/F470 dreamers would park their bums in the California to get priority on the waitinglist for the more exclusive F450/470. Therefore I can imagine a 10-15% increase in price coupled with a 10% decrease in production. A bump in price will be justified by higher use of sophisticated materials and incorporation of more F1 tech. I'm sure Ferrari have planned this out well and the dealers will absolutley love it. In a few months we'll see how Ferrari have decided to play their cards.

nberry:

 My dealer is taking deliver of a demo today and asked me whether I would be interested in driving it. I told him since I have no interest in buying the car I would not be interested in test driving it.

FWIW, Ferrari is finding that the car is not getting any interest from current Ferrari owners. Women are apparently expressing luke warm interest.  They better hope that MB and BMW owners move up and express interest in the car otherwise there will be no market for it.

Evenif I weren't interested in buying the car, I would want to test drive it to have an opinion of  the newest Ferrari recarnation. At least the gearbox, engine and comfort level.

In the end, it is a Ferrari which leads in a new era.

ONUR

09 Audi TTS Ibis

07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)

 I decided to test drive it and did today. My dealer handed me the keys and told me give it a workout. I took the car and exercised as I would with my 430.

After driving it, my opinion has changed. What Isuk wrote regarding his experience and opinion I validate. The car is smooth as silk in everything it does. The ride is very comfortable, the shifting, even in sport, is almost seamless and it's handling is almost as good as my 430. In fact, I believe the turning radius of the CA Gt is better than my 430. The power of the car is more than enough and as Isuk indicated it reaches speeds without the driver knowing it. The exhaust is not as aggressive as my 430.

That said, clearly it is a car for the older more conservative driver. I did not experience the attention the Isuk received (he probably is better looking). Most drivers hardly glanced at the car. Now it may be related to living in La Jolla and the many exotic cars on the road in this area. Nevertheless, based on what I experience, it lack the Ferrari WOW factor road presence.

If the target market for the CA GT is the older conservative and woman driver, then Ferrari has hit a home run with CA GT. However, it will not be in my garage.

nberry:

 I decided to test drive it and did today. My dealer handed me the keys and told me give it a workout. I took the car and exercised as I would with my 430.

After driving it, my opinion has changed. What Isuk wrote regarding his experience and opinion I validate. The car is smooth as silk in everything it does. The ride is very comfortable, the shifting, even in sport, is almost seamless and it's handling is almost as good as my 430. In fact, I believe the turning radius of the CA Gt is better than my 430. The power of the car is more than enough and as Isuk indicated it reaches speeds without the driver knowing it. The exhaust is not as aggressive as my 430.

That said, clearly it is a car for the older more conservative driver. I did not experience the attention the Isuk received (he probably is better looking). Most drivers hardly glanced at the car. Now it may be related to living in La Jolla and the many exotic cars on the road in this area. Nevertheless, based on what I experience, it lack the Ferrari WOW factor road presence.

If the target market for the CA GT is the older conservative and woman driver, then Ferrari has hit a home run with CA GT. However, it will not be in my garage.

Nick,

Glad you drove it and realised that once you get past the looks it really is a true Ferrari underneath. The handling is pretty sharp in sport mode but it's obvious the car has been targeted at an audience unlikely to drive to anything like the extent of the car's abilities. You really need to start pushing the car hard to discover it's real capabilities and when you do it starts to shine. You can sense how easy it would be for Ferrari to turn it into something much rawer though. My 430 spider feels quite soft and tame for example after a drive in my Scuderia so a pared down California in the style of a 16M spider would be fun but will never happen through official channels. It's a good car but a tad overpriced IMHO when compared to other competitors. Then again you are paying a premium for the brand. I'd personally wait for the S version of next years Maserati GranTurismo convertible if looking for this type of car. That will have the looks, sound, rawness and fun factor for significantly less $ss.

PS. I probably am better looking it's true but then again Nottingham, England is hardly La Jolla, Ca. so a Ferrari tends to get noticed regardless of who's driving it  

 I was alone in the car and was able to do some spirited driving. I agree the car does shine while being driven aggressively. AND yet, when I was finished I did not feel I had driven a sport car. I had driven a capable convertible.

it is my understanding that the car has been selling well in Asia. Ferrari reported a first quarter profit of 72 million for 2009 primarily because of the CA Gt sales in Asia.

nberry:

 ........ AND yet, when I was finished I did not feel I had driven a sport car. I had driven a capable convertible.

 

Agreed  My dealer is about an hours drive from me and I went there in my 430 spider. After I'd finished the test drive and got back into my own car and put the top down for the drive home, I was glad that I didn't go ahead with my original plan to trade it in for the Cali. The 430 just feels more special. I guess that's the trade off when making a car that can be used a daily. An element of fun has to be sacrificed for practicality.

I test drove the Ca recently too. I second nberry and isuk in all they said.

On a personal note, I liked the gearbox but it's obvious a replacement for the automatic, not the manual.

In the end the Ca didn't made me feel that I drove something special. It's missing the exotic Ferrari feeling of my Scuderia.

After a closer look I would suggest that fortunately the whole of the California exceeds the sum of its parts.  The SL roofline, Lexus rear, and Maserati front end are all blended into a unique Ferrari. It may not be everyone's taste, but it provides Ferrari with access to an important segment of buyers. I'm not sure why "older" is a pejorative when applied to potential buyers for a sports car.  I assume that most people prefer aging to alternative.  I also doubt that the teens and twenty-somethings consider the forty to fifty somethings driving a Porsche GT3 or a Ferrari F430 "young". 

has anyone changed their opinion since their initial comments

many of the comments appear to have been made without  ever seeing the california

The California is for me the first Ferrari I would like to pay money for and own, as opposed to examine/admire in a showroom or to test drive for the experience. It is a Ferrari for the real world (at last)!

I would be willing to buy one tomorrow if they decided to make a fixed head coupe with less weight and more rear space. The folding hardtop is of no value to me. It only adds weight, complexity and in the longer term unavoidably some noises.

I have seen it, not impressed.

I've seen one,  test driven one, and subsequently ordered one.  Expecting delivery in 6 weeks.  Can't wait.  It seems that most of the people who have bashed the Cali have never actually driven one. 

2009 Porsche Turbo Cab - Cargraphic exhaust, HRE P40's charcoal

Shawminator:

I've seen one,  test driven one, and subsequently ordered one.  Expecting delivery in 6 weeks.  Can't wait.  It seems that most of the people who have bashed the Cali have never actually driven one. 

shaw

with a few notable exceptions, e.g. nberry ,i completely agree

I like it too. It doesn't look too big, and looks different than most things on the street, and fast enough, the folding roof is a huge bonus...

Shawminator:

I've seen one,  test driven one, and subsequently ordered one.  Expecting delivery in 6 weeks.  Can't wait.  It seems that most of the people who have bashed the Cali have never actually driven one. 

 I haven't driven one yet but i did get a ride in one and even there i could feel the diference of the ride comfort in regard to the 430. when i first saw it in pics i admit i wasn't sold on it but in the metal its totally different, everything seems to work.

ignacio:

Shawminator:

I've seen one,  test driven one, and subsequently ordered one.  Expecting delivery in 6 weeks.  Can't wait.  It seems that most of the people who have bashed the Cali have never actually driven one. 

 

shaw

 

with a few notable exceptions, e.g. nberry ,i completely agree

 

 To clarify, I am not bashing the California. For what it is it is an excellent car. However, at least to me it does not feel or drive like a Ferrari. But I guess that was the point of the car.

Ferrari is not just the 430 Nick. The California is more like the other Ferraris, GTs...

Nick,

Take one out on your own, switch off the traction control (or put it into sport mode at the very least) and go and spank it on some of those glorious canyon roads you have

Once you gain confidence in it and get past the fact it doesn't handle like the go kart 430 (a consequence of having more weight over the nose and less initial steering feel) I think you'll find it's a much better car than you first thought. You really need to rack up some miles in the car to adjust to the way it handles over the mid-engined Ferraris you've previously owned.

ISUK:

Nick,

Take one out on your own, switch off the traction control (or put it into sport mode at the very least) and go and spank it on some of those glorious canyon roads you have

Once you gain confidence in it and get past the fact it doesn't handle like the go kart 430 (a consequence of having more weight over the nose and less initial steering feel) I think you'll find it's a much better car than you first thought. You really need to rack up some miles in the car to adjust to the way it handles over the mid-engined Ferraris you've previously owned.

Fully agree.

Cali is IMHO overall and excellent GT sportscar. Yes, an sportscar! According to german Sport Auto Cali is as fast as F430F1 around Hockenheim. And probably even faster...

It is first really daily driver friendly Ferrari.

Also, I must admit that looks grows on me highly. Few days ago my wife and I saw Maser Grantursimo S and Cali side by side. Despite the fact that 99% of public will find Maser better looking car my wife comment about Cali was:"...would like to have it-for myself!" I agree with her 100%. Cali is great car indeed.

nberry:

 To clarify, I am not bashing the California. For what it is it is an excellent car. However, at least to me it does not feel or drive like a Ferrari. But I guess that was the point of the car.

 

nick

have you ever driven a maranello?

not all ferraris are mid engine v8's. many are gt cars.

i had an f430 on order for 5 years and never received it from my dealer. i simply refuse to be extorted to pay an under the counter premium for anything.

even though i like the f430, i'm glad it was never delivered. the california does everything i want it to and is more comfortable than the f430. i could care less that it doesn't feel like a mid engine ferrari. if i wanted a track car i'd get a gt3 or a scuderia. for a road car, the california is better for me and many others.

ignacio

 

 

A V12 Ferrari is hard to walk away from...

SciFrog:

A V12 Ferrari is hard to walk away from...

 

i agree. the v12's are magnificent gt cars. the only downside is the list price when new!