Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne - Page1

Apr 3, 2009 2:26:40 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: SciFrog

Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

In horse-racing (here in the UK), if there is any issue about the race, the result is not announced until after a stewards' enquiry. There isn't a farcical situation where the result is announced and then subsequently changed again and again. But the stewards' enquiry in horse-racing happens quickly - obviously the bookies need to know the outcome promptly so that they can quickly establish whose bets won and whose didn't.

F1 by comparison is rapidly becoming a laughing stock.

Also, what about the spread-bets that are being placed? If the results keep changing days after the event, people may be losing out on their winnings and others may be getting paid out when they shouldn't be...

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Apr 3, 2009 3:00:24 PM

Eunice: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Karlsruhe , Germany; Posts: 6155, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 27, 2008; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

In other sports, the referees decision during the game is what counts. If anything turns out afterwards, the penalties are either fines or for the next race.

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Apr 3, 2009 4:23:52 PM

SciFrog: Rennteam VIP; Loc: USA , United States; Posts: 9870, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 15, 2005; Reply to: Eunice

Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

Good point except that the complexity of the F1 cars and the rules that come with it are so complex, there needs to be some ruling after the event.

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Apr 3, 2009 7:52:33 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: Eunice

Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

Eunice:

fritz:

Eunice:

I think that's really hard punishment, but then again, McLaren is not innocent, they did some fair amount of cheating in the past.

Only if you look upon the phrase "there is no smoke without fire" as adequate proof of guilt.

I wasn't referring to the last race,............

I wasn't either. I assumed you were referring to the 100 million $ "Ferrari secrets" scandal. Smiley

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Apr 4, 2009 7:38:25 AM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: fritz

Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

Crikey - I've now heard the McLaren team radio conversation (which took place during the race while Trulli was just behind LH) and (I quote) the team said the following:

"Lewis, you need to allow the Toyota through. Allow the Toyota through now".

LH then told the stewards he had not been instructed to do this by the team - because Dave Ryan (McLaren Sporting Director) had instructed him to (and I quote) "withhold information".

If a soldier is ordered to commit an atrocity, it still remains an atrocity. "Following orders" is not a good enough excuse IMO.

Lewis said he was "misled". Nonsense.

LH claims he is not a "liar" and that he is not "dishonest" BUT he later described it as being like a "professional dive" in soccer. How is that not dishonest as well??? When footballers dive to get a free kick or penalty, that's dishonest!!

The more this sordid saga has unfolded, the more it has tarnished LH and McLaren.

Shame on Lewis. He deserved to be punished. LH has fallen into the gutter - just for 1 extra world championship point. So sad. I can never trust another word he says at face value.

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Apr 4, 2009 11:18:12 AM

Markdsv: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Schevening , Netherlands; Posts: 1197, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 24, 2007; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

Come on Easy_rider911, Lewis is a young guy, got it wrong in the spur of the moment. Of course I cannot talk it right and don't want to do it but he has received a serious punishment. Remember that last years championship balanced on one point, this 6 point penaulty can be very painful.

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Apr 4, 2009 11:27:45 AM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: Markdsv

Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

Lewis is a young talented sportsman in the wide world of money and intrique!

He was asked by his boss to say something and he did. Don't shoot him and don't crucify him!

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Apr 4, 2009 2:28:21 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: reginos

Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

With great respect, LH didn't just "get it wrong". It wasn't just a mistake. He knowingly withheld information which, given what he was asked, was effectively misleading/lying. It's dishonesty.

A steward's enquiry is like appearing in court - they hear the arguments, the panel can include lawyers and they hand out punishments.

He's 24 years old. Not a child. Anyone lying to a judge goes to jail for 'perverting the course of justice'.

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Apr 4, 2009 3:30:56 PM

JoeRockhead: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Topside , Monaco; Posts: 8033, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 17, 2007; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

easy_rider911:

With great respect, LH didn't just "get it wrong". It wasn't just a mistake. He knowingly withheld information which, given what he was asked, was effectively misleading/lying. It's dishonesty.

A steward's enquiry is like appearing in court - they hear the arguments, the panel can include lawyers and they hand out punishments.

He's 24 years old. Not a child. Anyone lying to a judge goes to jail for 'perverting the course of justice'.

True. It's also bad sportsmanship. Like Schumacher trying to knock Villeneuve out of the race when he was obviously going to win.

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Apr 4, 2009 10:48:08 PM

Dr. Phil: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denmark , Denmark; Posts: 5884, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 30, 2004; Reply to: JoeRockhead

Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

It´s no surprise to me that Hamilton is being dishonest. I have always claimed that he was a slick mo-fo who tries to slither his way thru F1 using his politically correct statements, "I have to thank the team"-speeches and general innocent demeanor.

But I am also sure that all other teams are cutting corners any which way they can - McLaren is just exceptionally bad at it and on top of that dumb enough to even THINK they can pull any stunts after Ferrari-gate without the FIA getting down hard on them.

Again they are firing one of their top men to preserve the appearance of integrity..LOL!

Good luck, young Smoothtalker, May the Farce be with you!

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Apr 6, 2009 4:47:55 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

And the consequences just keep on growing for McLaren:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7985669.stm

I expect the FIA will do something pretty drastic to again make an example out of this team (that has already been fined USD 100 million over the Ferrari spying scandal) by e.g. zero points in the 2009 Constructors Championship no matter what they do in the races to come ... or a massive fine of millions of dollars ...

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Apr 6, 2009 5:23:14 PM

Shakal: Expert; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 1375, Gallery; Registered on: May 30, 2006; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

Brawn had illegal exhausts on first race. Exhaust should be hidden, but their can be clearly seen:

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Apr 6, 2009 7:57:14 PM

Eunice: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Karlsruhe , Germany; Posts: 6155, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 27, 2008; Reply to: Shakal

Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

Hamilton quitting F1?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/lewishamilton/5110917/Lewis-Hamilton-considered-quitting-Formula-One-over...

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Apr 6, 2009 8:53:32 PM

throt: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 6078, Gallery; Registered on: May 9, 2005; Reply to: Eunice

Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

Dont think he would quit , but what about the team as a whole ..As it states , they clearly got lots of performance tech work to catch up on and it seems that LH is getting a kick in the goolies left right and centre...

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Apr 6, 2009 10:57:01 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: throt

Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

I never believe it when people who haven't actually resigned shortly afterwards claim that they considered resigning. Politicians do it all the time - it's just a way of diffusing some of the media pressure.

Lewis wouldn't resign from F1 in a million years.

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Apr 8, 2009 1:51:09 AM

Thoma: Veteran; Loc: Vancouver , Canada; Posts: 855, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 5, 2005; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/columnists/matthew_syed/article6054328.ece

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Apr 8, 2009 7:23:03 AM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: Thoma

Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

IMO Hamilton's reputation will depend on his performance on the track. How many races or championships he will win will determine his image and status as a racing driver and not a "lie".

Schumacher and even fabled and demi-god Senna did worse things in their career but who can argue with MS's 7 titles and 91 wins and Senna's talent, 3 titles, 41 wins and the many victories against the odds. Even if you point a finger at them for their wrong doings it will look like sour grapes.

If Hamilton stays at one title (this will of course depend on his car) then he might be remembered as "black liar and one hit wonder". If he carries on with winning no one will remember this incident.

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Apr 29, 2009 12:03:33 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: reginos

Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

FIA gives McLaren team a suspended 3 race ban:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8024661.stm

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Apr 29, 2009 12:14:15 PM

Eunice: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Karlsruhe , Germany; Posts: 6155, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 27, 2008; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

Well, it isn't enforced immediately:

The penalty will only be enforced upon Lewis Hamilton's team if "further facts emerge" about this incident or if there is a "further breach" of the rules.

I think this isn't too bad, given what you could face after lying in court?

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Apr 29, 2009 1:41:38 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: Eunice

Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

I think this outcome really was a best-case scenario for McLaren. They will be breathing a sigh of relief today...

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May 2, 2009 5:07:25 PM

WAY: Rennteam Master; Loc: Melbourne, Australia; Posts: 3344, Gallery; Registered on: May 11, 2004; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

I think Mercedes' veiled threat of pulling out of F1 worked...

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