Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Porsche testdriver dies in testmule - Page1

Feb 13, 2009 8:50:03 AM

Porsche-Jeck: Rennteam Master; Loc: Rheinland , Germany; Posts: 4856, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 27, 2005

Porsche testdriver dies in testmule

Smiley Happened this morning (3 a.m.) on the Autobahn - sounds like he was doing a testdrive with a 991. The 51 years old man lost control (reason yet unclear) and "shaved" 50 m of armco. A colleague, following in a Panamera fortunately was able to avoid the wreck.

http://www.hr-online.de/website/rubriken/nachrichten/indexhessen34938.jsp?rubrik=36098&key=standard_document_36362578

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Feb 13, 2009 8:57:59 AM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21149, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: Porsche-Jeck

Re: Porsche testdriver dies in testmule

Thats horrible! Smiley

R.I.P.

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Feb 13, 2009 10:19:18 AM

Porsche-Jeck: Rennteam Master; Loc: Rheinland , Germany; Posts: 4856, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 27, 2005; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: Porsche testdriver dies in testmule

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Feb 13, 2009 10:21:57 AM

Lars997: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: South , Germany; Posts: 9448, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 8, 2002; Reply to: Porsche-Jeck

Re: Porsche testdriver dies in testmule

Thats the outcome of the more and more nightshifts of test mule drivers. They drive more in nights as there are less seen.

Horribly sad - RIP!

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Feb 13, 2009 10:35:00 AM

Eunice: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Karlsruhe , Germany; Posts: 6155, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 27, 2008; Reply to: Lars997

Re: Porsche testdriver dies in testmule

This is sad. I hope they find out what lead to this crash and may prevent it from happening in the future.

If the test drivers are put under pressure to drive at night because of fans like us, I'm truly sorry for it.

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Feb 13, 2009 10:41:15 AM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: Eunice

Re: Porsche testdriver dies in testmule

RIP.

@Eunice: it's not so much "fans like us" but the spyshot paparazzi who make good money selling these spyshots. They will hunt anyone or anything if it will earn them money.

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Feb 13, 2009 11:38:41 AM

Porsche-Jeck: Rennteam Master; Loc: Rheinland , Germany; Posts: 4856, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 27, 2005; Reply to: Porsche-Jeck

Re: Porsche testdriver dies in testmule

Forgot to add the picture source:

http://www.ka-news.de/fotos/Bilddetail/cme5282,194767.html

Porsche spokesman meanwhile confirmed that it was a 991 Cab testmule. Driver described as very experienced (> 20 years). Driver was conducting a long-term endurance test "under realistic conditions", no special high speed test.

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Feb 13, 2009 11:54:49 AM

Ron (Houston): Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Houston, TX , United States; Posts: 8812, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 10, 2002; Reply to: Porsche-Jeck

Re: Porsche testdriver dies in testmule

Very sad Smiley

RIP

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Feb 13, 2009 12:27:21 PM

Gauss: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Luxembourg , Luxembourg; Posts: 5822, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 3, 2003; Reply to: Ron (Houston)

Re: Porsche testdriver dies in testmule

I just heard this on the radio. Tragic, RIP!

It happened near Darmstadt. They were going from Frankfurt to Heidelberg.

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Feb 13, 2009 12:32:17 PM

Spyderidol: Rennteam Master; Loc: Mozambique; Posts: 5807, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 25, 2007; Reply to: Gauss

Re: Porsche testdriver dies in testmule

This is really very upsetting.

RIP

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Feb 13, 2009 12:51:18 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: Spyderidol

Re: Porsche testdriver dies in testmule

I am very sad. I hope PAG have generous schemes to take care of the family of the deceased.

I don't think the accident was caused by the fact that the car was a test vehicle. Maybe it was human error or sleepiness at this time of the night.

It was a fatal accident at work but for me as a Porsche-friend, this man is a soldier who died in battle for a good cause (I hope this does not sound exaggerated).

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Feb 13, 2009 7:35:28 PM

Super Darius: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Italy-Como , Italy; Posts: 4084, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 7, 2002; Reply to: reginos

Re: Porsche testdriver dies in testmule

RIP and thanks for what he made for us till now
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Feb 13, 2009 7:40:19 PM

ADias: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Southwest USA , United States; Posts: 2495, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 9, 2004; Reply to: Super Darius

Re: Porsche testdriver dies in testmule

Notice the horizontal guard rail and the car squeezed under it? Is that what the guard rail looks like?

It appears that the guard rail offers no protection at the bottom, allowing low cars to wedge themselves under it. Moreover, it appears that the structure collapsed on top of the car. It appears that the guard rail is at fault.

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Feb 13, 2009 7:47:27 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: ADias

Re: Porsche testdriver dies in testmule

ADias:
Notice the horizontal guard rail and the car squeezed under it? Is that what the guard rail looks like?
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I'm not sure that I have correctly understood your question, but that guard rail certainly does not look as if it worked as it should have.

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fritz

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Feb 13, 2009 8:16:19 PM

Ron (Houston): Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Houston, TX , United States; Posts: 8812, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 10, 2002; Reply to: fritz

Re: Porsche testdriver dies in testmule

Very true. Now that I paid close attention to the picture, the guardrail seem to be for SUVs or Busses Smiley

, very strange.

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Happy Driving

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Feb 13, 2009 9:32:52 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21149, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: ADias

Re: Porsche testdriver dies in testmule

ADias:

Notice the horizontal guard rail and the car squeezed under it? Is that what the guard rail looks like?

It appears that the guard rail offers no protection at the bottom, allowing low cars to wedge themselves under it. Moreover, it appears that the structure collapsed on top of the car. It appears that the guard rail is at fault.

--
A. Dias Corvette C6 coupe (sold) 996 C4 (sold)

Thats indeed how they look like Antonio, at least here in Spain, and if you think that is bad for low cars which go under the impact absorving guardrail, you should see what that does to motorbike riders.

The riders travel over the gorund under the guardrail like this car and the posts that hold the guardrail up act as blades and if you hit them over 50km/h they will amputate whatever part of the rider's body hits it. You can see the effect of the post on the car and how it "cut into" the car's chassis, imagine human tissue, its awful even at low speeds, doesn't take much. Its incredible how many damages are caused by these assain guardrails every year here as opposed to falling were there is no guardrail. Now finally they are slowly changing them with guardrail with rounder shaped post and some with a protection bellow it (like a lower guradrail bellow the top one) that absobs the impact and offers no cutting surface.

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Feb 13, 2009 9:50:58 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: ADias

Re: Porsche testdriver dies in testmule

ADias:

Notice the horizontal guard rail and the car squeezed under it? Is that what the guard rail looks like?

It appears that the guard rail offers no protection at the bottom, allowing low cars to wedge themselves under it. Moreover, it appears that the structure collapsed on top of the car. It appears that the guard rail is at fault.

--
A. Dias Corvette C6 coupe (sold) 996 C4 (sold)

Smiley

When I first answered your post, it consisted solely of the first paragraph.

I guess you must have edited it? I was not trying to be a smartass when I wrote that I didn't understand your question. Smiley

--
fritz

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Feb 13, 2009 10:05:08 PM

davew (cincy): Veteran; Loc: Cincinnati, OH , United States; Posts: 1164, Gallery; Registered on: May 10, 2004; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: Porsche testdriver dies in testmule

Wow. That is very sad, and would have likely been prevented with a better rail design - if not in this accident, at least in many others. What a terrible shame.

I can't believe bumper designs are so scrutinized, but roadway railings can be like this! Why don't they just put giant saw blades along the highway...? The picture source cited above shows the wreckage from another angle that really illustrates how far the car went under.

Sad, tragic, and upsetting. I hope this - and the night testing - are changes very soon.

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Feb 13, 2009 10:40:03 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: Lars997

Re: Porsche testdriver dies in testmule

Lars997:

Thats the outcome of the more and more nightshifts of test mule drivers. They drive more in nights as there are less seen.

Surely that is just speculation on your part? Smiley

You can frequently see camouflaged prototypes running around day and night if you live or travel near car factories, as you have been able to for years from my observation.

It is not, or at least not only, to avoid photographers. How would they be able to complete high-mileage durability tests within "normal" development program timelines if they did not try to keep the cars rolling by operating in shifts?

Considering the high total test mileages that car manufacturers must do every year, the statistical likelihood of such events arising can sadly never be ruled out.

--
fritz

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Feb 13, 2009 10:56:09 PM

ADias: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Southwest USA , United States; Posts: 2495, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 9, 2004; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: Porsche testdriver dies in testmule

Carlos from Spain:

ADias:

Notice the horizontal guard rail and the car squeezed under it? Is that what the guard rail looks like?

It appears that the guard rail offers no protection at the bottom, allowing low cars to wedge themselves under it. Moreover, it appears that the structure collapsed on top of the car. It appears that the guard rail is at fault.

--
A. Dias Corvette C6 coupe (sold) 996 C4 (sold)

Thats indeed how they look like Antonio, at least here in Spain, and if you think that is bad for low cars which go under the impact absorving guardrail, you should see what that does to motorbike riders.

The riders travel over the gorund under the guardrail like this car and the posts that hold the guardrail up act as blades and if you hit them over 50km/h they will amputate whatever part of the rider's body hits it. You can see the effect of the post on the car and how it "cut into" the car's chassis, imagine human tissue, its awful even at low speeds, doesn't take much. Its incredible how many damages are caused by these assain guardrails every year here as opposed to falling were there is no guardrail. Now finally they are slowly changing them with guardrail with rounder shaped post and some with a protection bellow it (like a lower guradrail bellow the top one) that absobs the impact and offers no cutting surface.

--

Drivers should stop cold the bureaucrats who designed this and demand a redesign. I lost my desire to drive fast on the German Autobahn. Smiley

--
A. Dias Corvette C6 coupe (sold) 996 C4 (sold)

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Feb 13, 2009 11:04:11 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21149, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: ADias

Re: Porsche testdriver dies in testmule

ADias:

Drivers should stop cold the bureaucrats who designed this and demand a redesign.

You are abosultely right and that would work in the US but unfortunately in burocratic Europe, politians are unfased by such. Many motorbike riders had to die or cripple and many many public marches in protest for years and only now thay are starting to change the guardrails here.

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Feb 13, 2009 11:17:55 PM

ADias: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Southwest USA , United States; Posts: 2495, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 9, 2004; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: Porsche testdriver dies in testmule

Carlos from Spain:

ADias:

Drivers should stop cold the bureaucrats who designed this and demand a redesign.

You are abosultely right and that would work in the US but unfortunately in burocratic Europe, politians are unfased by such. Many motorbike riders had to die or cripple and many many public marches in protest for years and only now thay are starting to change the guardrails here.

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I urge you to change the system. You own the place. Bureaucrats and politicians work for you. In addition... this happened with a Porsche factory driver. PAG is well known for pushing social issues, look what they did successfully in London with the city car tax. I urge them to make this sad event an example to fix this problem.

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A. Dias Corvette C6 coupe (sold) 996 C4 (sold)

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Feb 13, 2009 11:26:06 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21149, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: ADias

Re: Porsche testdriver dies in testmule

If it were that easy here, socialist party would NOT be ruling in Spain, destroying the economy Smiley

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Feb 14, 2009 2:35:33 AM

Whoopsy: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Vancouver,BC , Canada; Posts: 16151, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 19, 2006; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: Porsche testdriver dies in testmule

Those guard rails look like they are designed more for big trucks and semi-trailers than for normal cars, I guess in a socialist country only the union members are protected.

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Feb 14, 2009 3:28:49 AM

Turbo Al: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Rochester, New York , United States; Posts: 2531, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: Whoopsy

Re: Porsche testdriver dies in testmule

No time for politics, just silence.

Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley

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Feb 14, 2009 4:40:02 AM

JoeRockhead: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Topside , Monaco; Posts: 8033, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 17, 2007; Reply to: Turbo Al

Re: Porsche testdriver dies in testmule

Very unfortunate accident. If this could have been prevented with lower guard rails, I hope that they are modified before something like this happens again.

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Feb 14, 2009 9:01:14 AM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12681, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: JoeRockhead

Re: Porsche testdriver dies in testmule

JoeRockhead:
Very unfortunate accident. If this could have been prevented with lower guard rails, I hope that they are modified before something like this happens again.

I don't really know, if we can assume this. I mean, he surely was travelling at high speed, but nobody knows how the accident exactly happened (at least for now, perhaps they'll find out more). But let's just hypothesize that he was braking hard at that moment, what would result in a deep dive of the front of the car. With a low front end of a sportscar like the 911 (or any Ferrari, Lamborghini etc.) I think there is the chance to slide underneath the guard rail, which is actually build for preventing such accidents.

But this also is just a guess from me. Smiley

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Feb 14, 2009 9:08:53 AM

Gauss: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Luxembourg , Luxembourg; Posts: 5822, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 3, 2003; Reply to: Rossi

Re: Porsche testdriver dies in testmule

In my opinion the car didn't even have to be hard braking to get under the guard rail. The impact and the low shape of the car at the front suffice. it's like squeezing an orange through a hole.
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Feb 14, 2009 6:31:48 PM

ADias: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Southwest USA , United States; Posts: 2495, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 9, 2004; Reply to: Rossi

Re: Porsche testdriver dies in testmule

Rossi:
I don't really know, if we can assume this. I mean, he surely was travelling at high speed, but nobody knows how the accident exactly happened (at least for now, perhaps they'll find out more). But let's just hypothesize that he was braking hard at that moment, what would result in a deep dive of the front of the car. With a low front end of a sportscar like the 911 (or any Ferrari, Lamborghini etc.) I think there is the chance to slide underneath the guard rail, which is actually build for preventing such accidents.

But this also is just a guess from me.

If a braking front dip is enough to wedge the front under the barrier... the barrier is too high! The barrier must be low, at the lower bumper height. It's that simple.

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Feb 14, 2009 8:04:51 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12681, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: ADias

Re: Porsche testdriver dies in testmule

ADias:

Rossi:
I don't really know, if we can assume this. I mean, he surely was travelling at high speed, but nobody knows how the accident exactly happened (at least for now, perhaps they'll find out more). But let's just hypothesize that he was braking hard at that moment, what would result in a deep dive of the front of the car. With a low front end of a sportscar like the 911 (or any Ferrari, Lamborghini etc.) I think there is the chance to slide underneath the guard rail, which is actually build for preventing such accidents.

But this also is just a guess from me.

If a braking front dip is enough to wedge the front under the barrier... the barrier is too high! The barrier must be low, at the lower bumper height. It's that simple.

--
A. Dias Corvette C6 coupe (sold) 996 C4 (sold)

I really don't think so. As Gauss said, when travelling at such high speeds no guard rail can help you. Smiley

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