Closesound interesting!
Ron Dennis has spilled the beans about plans to turn McLaren into a volume competitor for Ferrari in the luxury sports car market, reports theFinancial Times.
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=19344
Well this link works: http://www.autoblog.com/2007/12/17/the-new-skinny-on-the-mclaren-p11-supercar/
Anyway - they might be able to build quality cars, but they never will achieve the myth and emotions of an Ferrari! There is only the one and only!
Not the best time, considering I read the other day that AM may default on some loans.
But as to comparing with Ferrari, they have the F1 heritage imo and their first effort was/is a myth greater than any fcar, the Mclaren F1. It all depends on the new designs, look and sound. (and will theu outsource engines, go electric?)
No fcar beats that.
racerx:
Not the best time, considering I read the other day that AM may default on some loans.
The auto industry has long lead-times, even if you are called McLaren. This is a good time to start putting everything in place so they can hit the ground running when the economy improves.
Or, as Warren Buffett put it: "If you wait until the robin starts to sing, you'll miss the spring". 
Well racerX - you might be right that there is a myth underneath us sportcar friends. But a Ferrari has the music already in the name. And the first words little boys are able to say are Ferrari and Porsche and not McLaren. So I guess, the myth is not for everyone that strong.
And - seeing this computer reenderings, it doesnt look very promising. Just a sportscar like so many others, no curves and lines which would jump right into my eyes.
Lars, I think the myth is dependent on culture first and age/knowledge 2nd.
I will speak to the US market (the most important for sales) most little boys here say corvette or mustang unless they are born in greenwich with a silver spoon in their mouths.
A good part of the ferrari MYTH comes from what Nick always harps on, the price tag, factory controlled scarcity, exclusivity.
The rest of it, in the US, comes from Thomas Magnum and Sonny Crockett. Magnum PI and Miami Vice product placement made Ferrari into a household name in the US.
Some amount of serious car people with some real knowledge discount the schumacher years as nothing more than a boring procession. We remember the Alboreto years when Michele would usually finish a race in flames while Lauda/Prost/Senna would be winning in a Marlboro Mclaren.
Ferrari has a great name but a lot of of it is clever marketing. Porsche has just as good if not better racing hisory and audi and Merc have very respectable pasts also.
When Tom Selleck signed his last contract foe the last years of magnum he celebrated by buying himself and his co-stars each a 928, not a 328 or TR.
Plus Ron Dennis is kind of like today's Enzo.
Maybe Mclaren, Zonda, Tesla, and Fisker can set up a joint dealership distribution collaboartion to spread costs.
REALZEUS:Well they are all great cars however the Mclaren was completely bespoke with no expense spared. The engine bay is lined in gold for **** sake! While the F40, F50, and Enzo all offer superior handling, the Mclaren is still faster (acceleration, top speed). Although I don't care as much about top speed as I do handling, this is still an amazing acheivement IMHO.
I regard the F40, F50 and especially the Enzo much greater of a myth than the Macca F1 racerx... many people I know of also... I see this effort as a left field alternative to a Ferrari.
--
FERRARI RULES!!!
trip:
REALZEUS:
I regard the F40, F50 and especially the Enzo much greater of a myth than the Macca F1 racerx... many people I know of also... I see this effort as a left field alternative to a Ferrari.
--
FERRARI RULES!!!Well they are all great cars however the Mclaren was completely bespoke with no expense spared. The engine bay is lined in gold for **** sake! While the F40, F50, and Enzo all offer superior handling, the Mclaren is still faster (acceleration, top speed). Although I don't care as much about top speed as I do handling, this is still an amazing acheivement IMHO.
Uhm... no!!! The Enzo decimates the Macca F1 in a straight line. To quote Road And Track:
"Zero to 60 mph: 3.3 seconds.
Quarter-mile run: 11.1 sec. at 133.0 mph.
Unbelievable.
The Enzo has just recorded the best Road & Track acceleration run ever for a road car. Its 0-60-mph run equals the fastest time logged just a month ago by the all-American Saleen S7. And its quarter-mile time and speed pulverize the mighty McLaren F1's numbers of 11.6 sec. traveling at a mere 125 mph past the quarter-mile mark. Wow!"
Link: http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=627&page_number=5
The Enzo is grossly underrated while the Macca grossly overrated. In truth the Ferrari is both much faster in a straight line (top speed also) and down the twisties. It's in another league altogether!
REALZEUS:
I regard the F40, F50 and especially the Enzo much greater of a myth than the Macca F1 racerx... many people I know of also... I see this effort as a left field alternative to a Ferrari.
--
FERRARI RULES!!!
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and those are great cars. My prsonal favorite of those is the F50 because i like NA cars the best and it looks much better than the the Enzo.
But if you look at it objectively the Mclaren seems to win hands down by the numbers. And I prefer its looks to the fcars. I have watched an F40 on the dyno in person and seen the other facrs in person as well.
In modern GP racing Mclaren has a better legacy imo, Prost, Senna, Lauda.
Ferrari has the history in making beautiful road cars and building its own engines.
But Mclaren, despite the SLR, has a good start and it could be a success if done right.
The Mclaren F1 has it over all fcars for sound, performance, and pure cool factor, watch the video above. I don't think Tiff has any doubts.
Nice video here
Where did you find that 3.2? Is it a R&T figure? Even if it is, when they put down their power the Ferrari just vanishes, the McLaren has no chance. Eight mph at the quarter is like comparing a fast car to a supercar! So I think that the Ferrari wins hands down with the numbers. All numbers (recorded by the same publication, not what a manufacturer may claim) attest to that.
REALZEUS:
trip:
REALZEUS:
I regard the F40, F50 and especially the Enzo much greater of a myth than the Macca F1 racerx... many people I know of also... I see this effort as a left field alternative to a Ferrari.
--
FERRARI RULES!!!Well they are all great cars however the Mclaren was completely bespoke with no expense spared. The engine bay is lined in gold for **** sake! While the F40, F50, and Enzo all offer superior handling, the Mclaren is still faster (acceleration, top speed). Although I don't care as much about top speed as I do handling, this is still an amazing acheivement IMHO.
Uhm... no!!! The Enzo decimates the Macca F1 in a straight line. To quote Road And Track:
"Zero to 60 mph: 3.3 seconds.
Quarter-mile run: 11.1 sec. at 133.0 mph.
Unbelievable.
The Enzo has just recorded the best Road & Track acceleration run ever for a road car. Its 0-60-mph run equals the fastest time logged just a month ago by the all-American Saleen S7. And its quarter-mile time and speed pulverize the mighty McLaren F1's numbers of 11.6 sec. traveling at a mere 125 mph past the quarter-mile mark. Wow!"
Link: http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=627&page_number=5
The Enzo is grossly underrated while the Macca grossly overrated. In truth the Ferrari is both much faster in a straight line (top speed also) and down the twisties. It's in another league altogether!
--
FERRARI RULES!!!
That is incorrect. The McLaren F1 is about 3-4s faster 0-300 than the Enzo (I think, test numbers where 23s vs. 26-27s). Also, the car still costs at least 3 times as much as an Enzo on the secondary market.
As much as I love the Enzo (and also the F40): The F1 is the most extraordinary achievement in the sportscar sector. Just recently talked to a guy who ows/did own many very nice cars (including a pretty recent Formular 1 car which he drives full speed on the track...) like F40, Enzo, McLaren F1 etc. After a talk with him it was pretty clear which car made the biggest impression on him. Guess what car it was 
I would like to see those claimed 0-300 numbers MKSGR... The power to weight ratio as well as all the readings I have seen and provided say exactly the opposite! I guess the most wayward impressed him... yeah that would b the Macca... lol
Standard F1 compared to standard Enzo, the Fezza comes on top. The same applied to LM vs FXX (the extreme race bred versions of the two if you like). The LM was always a road car. 5 exist. The GTR was the race car, 28 exist.
So if we are still talking street cars, the Mclaren still rules.
and for me 2nd place goes to the CGT. (Veyron and enzo are just too ugly to be considered, 288 gto was nice, or jims p4,5)
There is no point discussing Mclaren F1, Enzos and various other Ferraris and CGT, in a time when the Veyron exists.
In my mind that car is the definition of a supercar in all respects. Price, unique dramatic looks, HP, performance and technology.
The rest are just racers disguised to look like road cars.
You said it racers in disguise.
Piech inspired a technical tour de force. Just read its technology
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti_Veyron
and look at its unique design
next to the Enzo
It might be heavier, but you can run through a whole continent in a Veyron and come out fresh without a drop of sweat, something you cannot do in those track day racers in disguise.
Enzo and the rest are good for the piste but IMO a supercar has to something more to earn this title.
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