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    Mar 2, 2006 4:38:43 PM

    RCA
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    RC
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: audi tiptronic v. audi dsg v. porsche tiptronic

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    If that wasn't the case why would they be developing the sequential transmission?



    1. because other manufacturers are offering it (competition)
    2. because it may have advantages on the track, even advantages over manual
    3. because it would be somehow an electronically "adjustable" manual AND auto gearbox in ONE unit, making the car itself more attractive for a broader group of buyers (auto AND manual in one gearbox AND better performance, both on the street and track)
    4. because Porsche always needs some "innovation" to make a point (marketing!!!), like the new VTG technology which wasn't really necessary since the 996 GT2 already had the same power without VTG

    Just a few points, I'm sure there are more reasons...

    Mar 2, 2006 5:08:17 PM

    bazza
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: audi tiptronic v. audi dsg v. porsche tiptronic

    no way for dsg or tip

    i remember i had enough of my audi tt 3.2 dsg last year . and move it to c4s . cause dsg do has hasitation problem ,sometimes u get few second delate, i think human still faster then what ever BS dsg they r

    Mar 2, 2006 5:24:10 PM

    MKSGRM
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: I'm begging you...don't order Tiptronic!

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Please do not forget: it is fast only up to 160kph. Above that level it is slower than manual.



    Sometimes I really wonder if you read my posts.
    Again (I can send you a fax if you wish so ): the 997 Turbo Tiptroninc is FASTER than the Manual, even up to 160 kph and even up to 200 kph! From 0-200 kph, the Tiptronic is 0.6 seconds FASTER than manual.

    I'm not sure where CF stated that he was wrong with his "estimates" (which btw weren't his "estimates" but claims from Porsche employees ), maybe you could direct me to the post where CF made this statement.

    I heard about one second difference (in favor of manual) from 200 to top speed or from standstill to top speed, I don't remember anymore precisely. Sorry.

    You are disappointed? Well, so be it. The 997 Turbo is faster than your 996 Turbo S, so I'm not sure what you expected. Carrera GT performance? You got it, buddy. One second faster on the Weissach track...with Tiptronic.

    And while you and others are bragging about this and that, I'll enjoy my ride starting this summer. And don't tell me you want one when you "encounter" the first cars on the street, I would only tell you "I told you so".



    Don't worry: reading your posts is one of my biggest delights

    Regarding your question, CF stated in another thread:

    "From 200-300 the manual is supposed to win by a VERY small margin, BUT only with perfect shifts!!!!

    Standing KM: Tiptronic wins 21.1 vs 21.5 sec

    400 m - 1000 m: Tip gains another 0.2 sec

    Terminal speed should be 280-290 km/h"

    In a subsequent post he agreed that terminal speed after 1000m should not be 280-290kph but rather something around 250kph.

    Now a simple calculation:

    - the acceleration difference 0-200 is .6 seconds
    - between 200 and 250kph the delta is reduced to .4 seconds
    - Acceleration time up to 250kph is around 21 seconds
    - Remaining acceleration time up to top speed is well in excess of 20 seconds

    Do you see my point?

    - The gap between manual and tip is constant between 160kph and 200kph
    - Between 200 and 250kph the gap narrows, i.e. manual is slightly quicker
    - When reaching 250kph only 21 seconds have elapsed
    - In the remaining 20-30 seconds to top-speed the manual will gain substantially due the much better gearing in that speed range.

    Want to place a bet?

    Mar 2, 2006 5:27:43 PM

    nberry Offline
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: audi tiptronic v. audi dsg v. porsche tiptronic

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    If that wasn't the case why would they be developing the sequential transmission?



    1. because other manufacturers are offering it (competition)
    2. because it may have advantages on the track, even advantages over manual
    3. because it would be somehow an electronically "adjustable" manual AND auto gearbox in ONE unit, making the car itself more attractive for a broader group of buyers (auto AND manual in one gearbox AND better performance, both on the street and track)
    4. because Porsche always needs some "innovation" to make a point (marketing!!!), like the new VTG technology which wasn't really necessary since the 996 GT2 already had the same power without VTG

    Just a few points, I'm sure there are more reasons...



    Sorry RC that dog will not hunt. It is double speak for the proposition that until they develop the better system lets unload as many Tips as we can and never acknowledge the superiority of upcoming sequential syatem.

    When they introduce it, their version will be presented as the best innovation since the development of the automatic transmission.

    Mar 2, 2006 5:28:16 PM

    MKSGRM
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    MKSGR
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: I'm begging you...don't order Tiptronic!

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Please do not forget: it is fast only up to 160kph. Above that level it is slower than manual.



    And while you and others are bragging about this and that, I'll enjoy my ride starting this summer. And don't tell me you want one when you "encounter" the first cars on the street, I would only tell you "I told you so".



    My enjoyment would come to a sudden end when a Z06 would destroy me on the AB... Also, I would definitively not enjoy the experience of being passed by a 997TT manual in my 997TT Tip You seem to have a different view on this

    Mar 2, 2006 5:30:35 PM

    MKSGRM
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: audi tiptronic v. audi dsg v. porsche tiptronic

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    TX 911 said:
    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    I own a Audi S4 with slushbox...The Porsche tiptronic is so much better



    ummm, the point was not to compare Audi and Porsche, it was to compare tiptronic to DSG/PDK.

    everything we know to this point about direct shift gearboxes would suggest that PDK will be better than Tiptronic S.

    This would make me wary of getting a Tiptronic with the possibility that it will be an outdated transmission in a year or two.

    I'm sure with a little electronic wizardry you can make a Tiptronic shift very quickly, pre-boost, etc. etc.

    But it still has a torque converter. I would think the PDK will put more power to the road.



    Since it is widely accepted that Porsche is working on its version of the DSK does it not stand to reason that Porsche feels it is an improvement over its present Tiptronic?

    If that wasn't the case why would they be developing the sequential transmission?



    That is a very good argument

    Mar 2, 2006 5:35:02 PM

    MKSGRM
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    MKSGR
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: audi tiptronic v. audi dsg v. porsche tiptronic

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    If that wasn't the case why would they be developing the sequential transmission?



    1. because other manufacturers are offering it (competition)
    2. because it may have advantages on the track, even advantages over manual
    3. because it would be somehow an electronically "adjustable" manual AND auto gearbox in ONE unit, making the car itself more attractive for a broader group of buyers (auto AND manual in one gearbox AND better performance, both on the street and track)
    4. because Porsche always needs some "innovation" to make a point (marketing!!!), like the new VTG technology which wasn't really necessary since the 996 GT2 already had the same power without VTG

    Just a few points, I'm sure there are more reasons...



    RC, honestly I think that your current views might be a bit distracted by the fact that you ordered a 997TT already. Would you have the same views if you could still cancel the order?

    You know: I used to be a big defender and fan of Porsche. Why do you think did I change my views entirely over the last 14 days or so? I am only interested in performance. And I feel betrayed by Porsche.

    Mar 2, 2006 5:37:03 PM

    Super DariusM
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: audi tiptronic v. audi dsg v. porsche tiptronic

    Guys..

    Saturday afternoon i must place the final order..

    so,you have two days to help me to choose the right Turbo..Tip or Manual..

    I'm for the Manual..but turn off the Tip vs Manual battle!!

    i can't take the final decision if you don't stop write!

    Ciaoo

    Mar 2, 2006 5:40:42 PM

    Crash
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    Reply to: Super DariusM

    Re: audi tiptronic v. audi dsg v. porsche tiptronic

    Quote:
    Super Darius said:
    Guys..

    Saturday afternoon i must place the final order..

    so,you have two days to help me to choose the right Turbo..Tip or Manual..

    I'm for the Manual..but turn off the Tip vs Manual battle!!

    i can't take the final decision if you don't stop write!

    Ciaoo



    Manual... STOP

    Mar 2, 2006 5:42:17 PM

    MKSGRM
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    Reply to: Super DariusM

    Re: audi tiptronic v. audi dsg v. porsche tiptronic

    Quote:
    Super Darius said:
    Guys..

    Saturday afternoon i must place the final order..

    so,you have two days to help me to choose the right Turbo..Tip or Manual..

    I'm for the Manual..but turn off the Tip vs Manual battle!!

    i can't take the final decision if you don't stop write!

    Ciaoo



    Just wait until we start the discussion about the best color

    Mar 2, 2006 5:59:57 PM

    art.italy
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    Reply to: Super DariusM

    Re: audi tiptronic v. audi dsg v. porsche tiptronic

    I would buy the manual..in a sport car i prefere it.
    The only regret i have in my DB9 is the automatic tranny instead of the manual!
    In any case the new turbo is fantastic car Dario, you will enjoy it a lot.
    congratulations!!

    Mar 2, 2006 6:09:49 PM

    Super DariusM
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: audi tiptronic v. audi dsg v. porsche tiptronic

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Super Darius said:
    Guys..

    Saturday afternoon i must place the final order..

    so,you have two days to help me to choose the right Turbo..Tip or Manual..

    I'm for the Manual..but turn off the Tip vs Manual battle!!

    i can't take the final decision if you don't stop write!

    Ciaoo



    Just wait until we start the discussion about the best color



    Meteor gray/terracotta..no dubt on this!


    Artemio,all fine?

    Mar 2, 2006 6:25:38 PM

    art.italy
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    Reply to: Super DariusM

    Re: audi tiptronic v. audi dsg v. porsche tiptronic

    yes, all fine! i don't post a lot but I follow rennteam everyday.
    Regarding cars now i'm in a "quite" moment: i enjoy and love the aston, that is for sure slower than the turbo but, maybe due to the speed limits, i don't know, but now i prefer to drive more slow listening the sound of the engine and appreciating the beauty of the dashboard! I will also change my cayenne turbo at the end of march with an Audi A6 diesel (first diesel in my life!)
    I'm becoming old!!

    Mar 2, 2006 6:56:19 PM

    Persuader
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    Reply to: Super DariusM

    Re: audi tiptronic v. audi dsg v. porsche tiptronic

    Quote:
    Super Darius said:
    i can't take the final decision if you don't stop write!
    Ciaoo



    Having read all the posts on the subject and taken it all in I say...................................................
    MANUAL!

    Mar 3, 2006 1:14:36 AM

    Turbo Al Offline
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: audi tiptronic v. audi dsg v. porsche tiptronic

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    If that wasn't the case why would they be developing the sequential transmission?



    1. because other manufacturers are offering it (competition)
    2. because it may have advantages on the track, even advantages over manual
    3. because it would be somehow an electronically "adjustable" manual AND auto gearbox in ONE unit, making the car itself more attractive for a broader group of buyers (auto AND manual in one gearbox AND better performance, both on the street and track)
    4. because Porsche always needs some "innovation" to make a point (marketing!!!), like the new VTG technology which wasn't really necessary since the 996 GT2 already had the same power without VTG

    Just a few points, I'm sure there are more reasons...



    5. To try to entice Nick to purchase one.

    Mar 3, 2006 1:18:14 AM

    BD 997
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: I'm begging you...don't order Tiptronic!





    This is why I said: let Porsche surprise you. If the fact that a Tiptronic equipped 997 Turbo is faster on a tight track than a manual equipped Turbo doesn't give you the last and most important hint, I really don't know what to say anymore. -RC-




    RC are you saying the Tip is faster than the manual around the track??? is this confirmed???

    Mar 3, 2006 3:10:58 AM

    Avantgarde
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    Reply to: BD 997

    Re: I'm begging you...don't order Tiptronic!

    TIP for me.
    One can't be perfect all the time , we're humans afterall

    Mar 3, 2006 11:41:32 AM

    dhayek Offline
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    Reply to: Super DariusM

    Re: audi tiptronic v. audi dsg v. porsche tiptronic

    Quote:
    Super Darius said:
    Guys..

    Saturday afternoon i must place the final order..

    so,you have two days to help me to choose the right Turbo..Tip or Manual..

    I'm for the Manual..but turn off the Tip vs Manual battle!!

    i can't take the final decision if you don't stop write!

    Ciaoo


    dario ,before you decide ,remember that the 3.7 0 to 100 in tip can be achieved ANYTIME ,ANYWHERE ,by ANYBODY and i think people like you and me could NEVER achieve the 3.9 sec figure(manual),unless you feel changing your clutch soon.you know how they make it: rpm to 4500,5000 and release brutaly the clutch ,personaly i will never do it in my car....

    Mar 3, 2006 12:19:54 PM

    Joost
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    Reply to: dhayek

    Re: audi tiptronic v. audi dsg v. porsche tiptronic

    Dario,
    Remember; how many times do you drive to achieve best 0-100 times, and how many times do you drive for pure pleasure of having your car in control
    -Joost-

    Mar 3, 2006 1:14:26 PM

    BD 997
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    Reply to: dhayek

    Re: audi tiptronic v. audi dsg v. porsche tiptronic

    Quote:
    dhayek said:
    Quote:
    Super Darius said:
    Guys..

    Saturday afternoon i must place the final order..

    so,you have two days to help me to choose the right Turbo..Tip or Manual..

    I'm for the Manual..but turn off the Tip vs Manual battle!!

    i can't take the final decision if you don't stop write!

    Ciaoo


    dario ,before you decide ,remember that the 3.7 0 to 100 in tip can be achieved ANYTIME ,ANYWHERE ,by ANYBODY and i think people like you and me could NEVER achieve the 3.9 sec figure(manual),unless you feel changing your clutch soon.you know how they make it: rpm to 4500,5000 and release brutaly the clutch ,personaly i will never do it in my car....

    I agree with dhayek... In order to acheive 3.9 with manual you will probably have to powershift and that will burn off your clutch pretty fast

    Mar 3, 2006 1:37:14 PM

    Super DariusM
    Rennteam Moderator
    Super Darius
    Loc: Italy-Como , Italy
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    Registered on: Apr 7, 2002
    Reply to: BD 997

    Re: audi tiptronic v. audi dsg v. porsche tiptronic

    Quote:
    BD 997 said:
    Quote:
    dhayek said:
    Quote:
    Super Darius said:
    Guys..

    Saturday afternoon i must place the final order..

    so,you have two days to help me to choose the right Turbo..Tip or Manual..

    I'm for the Manual..but turn off the Tip vs Manual battle!!

    i can't take the final decision if you don't stop write!

    Ciaoo


    dario ,before you decide ,remember that the 3.7 0 to 100 in tip can be achieved ANYTIME ,ANYWHERE ,by ANYBODY and i think people like you and me could NEVER achieve the 3.9 sec figure(manual),unless you feel changing your clutch soon.you know how they make it: rpm to 4500,5000 and release brutaly the clutch ,personaly i will never do it in my car....

    I agree with dhayek... In order to acheive 3.9 with manual you will probably have to powershift and that will burn off your clutch pretty fast



    yes guys..

    but who make drag races here?

    With my former 996TT i make two or three times from stanstill to 100km/h..is easier that we make from 40km/h to 300km/h than 0 to 100...isn't it?

    but..i know that also from 40 to 300 km/h maybe tiptronic is faster..but i think it "pay more" in pleasure of driving make 4.2 to 0 to 100 in a manual car,than 3.7 in a tip car..

    really..don't know what to do..but i have the Tip on my Cayenne and i use it ever in auto mode... i hate the buttons on the steering wheel..

    ciaoo

    Mar 3, 2006 2:33:20 PM

    Crash
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    Reply to: Super DariusM

    Re: audi tiptronic v. audi dsg v. porsche tiptronic

    Quote:
    Super Darius said:
    Quote:
    BD 997 said:
    Quote:
    dhayek said:
    Quote:
    Super Darius said:
    Guys..

    Saturday afternoon i must place the final order..

    so,you have two days to help me to choose the right Turbo..Tip or Manual..

    I'm for the Manual..but turn off the Tip vs Manual battle!!

    i can't take the final decision if you don't stop write!

    Ciaoo


    dario ,before you decide ,remember that the 3.7 0 to 100 in tip can be achieved ANYTIME ,ANYWHERE ,by ANYBODY and i think people like you and me could NEVER achieve the 3.9 sec figure(manual),unless you feel changing your clutch soon.you know how they make it: rpm to 4500,5000 and release brutaly the clutch ,personaly i will never do it in my car....

    I agree with dhayek... In order to acheive 3.9 with manual you will probably have to powershift and that will burn off your clutch pretty fast



    yes guys..

    but who make drag races here?

    With my former 996TT i make two or three times from stanstill to 100km/h..is easier that we make from 40km/h to 300km/h than 0 to 100...isn't it?

    but..i know that also from 40 to 300 km/h maybe tiptronic is faster..but i think it "pay more" in pleasure of driving make 4.2 to 0 to 100 in a manual car,than 3.7 in a tip car..

    really..don't know what to do..but i have the Tip on my Cayenne and i use it ever in auto mode... i hate the buttons on the steering wheel..

    ciaoo



    I love you, man

    Mar 3, 2006 2:34:53 PM

    amjf088
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    amjf088
    Loc: Toronto, Canada , Canada
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    Registered on: Jan 6, 2005
    Reply to: BD 997

    Re: audi tiptronic v. audi dsg v. porsche tiptronic

    Quote:
    BD 997 said:
    Quote:
    dhayek said:
    Quote:
    Super Darius said:
    Guys..

    Saturday afternoon i must place the final order..

    so,you have two days to help me to choose the right Turbo..Tip or Manual..

    I'm for the Manual..but turn off the Tip vs Manual battle!!

    i can't take the final decision if you don't stop write!

    Ciaoo


    dario ,before you decide ,remember that the 3.7 0 to 100 in tip can be achieved ANYTIME ,ANYWHERE ,by ANYBODY and i think people like you and me could NEVER achieve the 3.9 sec figure(manual),unless you feel changing your clutch soon.you know how they make it: rpm to 4500,5000 and release brutaly the clutch ,personaly i will never do it in my car....

    I agree with dhayek... In order to acheive 3.9 with manual you will probably have to powershift and that will burn off your clutch pretty fast



    Actually, I'm not so sure that you would have to abuse the car to get the 3.9 s out of the manual. You would have to drive it well but not necessarily abuse it. Porsche has always been conservative with their performance claims and I don't think they resort to high-rpm clutch drops to get their numbers.

    As an example, a US magazine that is known for launching their test cars hard (Car & Driver) managed 4.1 s in a 997 S, a full half a second better than the factory time.

    Having said this, I DO agree that with the Tip, any driver can get the performance with ease.

    Super-D: My personal vote would be the manual.

    Mar 3, 2006 4:17:43 PM

    Super DariusM
    Rennteam Moderator
    Super Darius
    Loc: Italy-Como , Italy
    Posts: 4084, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 7, 2002
    Reply to: Crash

    Re: audi tiptronic v. audi dsg v. porsche tiptronic

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Super Darius said:
    Quote:
    BD 997 said:
    Quote:
    dhayek said:
    Quote:
    Super Darius said:
    Guys..

    Saturday afternoon i must place the final order..

    so,you have two days to help me to choose the right Turbo..Tip or Manual..

    I'm for the Manual..but turn off the Tip vs Manual battle!!

    i can't take the final decision if you don't stop write!

    Ciaoo


    dario ,before you decide ,remember that the 3.7 0 to 100 in tip can be achieved ANYTIME ,ANYWHERE ,by ANYBODY and i think people like you and me could NEVER achieve the 3.9 sec figure(manual),unless you feel changing your clutch soon.you know how they make it: rpm to 4500,5000 and release brutaly the clutch ,personaly i will never do it in my car....

    I agree with dhayek... In order to acheive 3.9 with manual you will probably have to powershift and that will burn off your clutch pretty fast



    yes guys..

    but who make drag races here?

    With my former 996TT i make two or three times from stanstill to 100km/h..is easier that we make from 40km/h to 300km/h than 0 to 100...isn't it?

    but..i know that also from 40 to 300 km/h maybe tiptronic is faster..but i think it "pay more" in pleasure of driving make 4.2 to 0 to 100 in a manual car,than 3.7 in a tip car..

    really..don't know what to do..but i have the Tip on my Cayenne and i use it ever in auto mode... i hate the buttons on the steering wheel..

    ciaoo



    I love you, man







    Mar 3, 2006 4:28:41 PM

    Wonderbar
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    Reply to: Super DariusM

    Re: audi tiptronic v. audi dsg v. porsche tiptronic

    Sorry if the following has been posted, but here in quotes, is what was given to me by very credible Porsche officials in Geneva. Hope it helps.

    " Why does Tiptronic accelerate faster from a standstill to 100Kmh than the manual?

    Optimum interaction of the new PTM all-wheel drive system, the Tiptronic functions, and the set-up of the engine in conjuntion with VTG gives the Tiptronic version of the new Turbo faster acceleraton due to (1) early build up of boost pressure as soon as the torgue converter reaches its engagement speed; (2) engagement effect providing additional torque boost; and (3) even shorter/quicker shift and reaction times of the transmission.

    You might say the Tip is already pre-tensioned for a faster start, with PTM all wheel drive delivering an almost equal, steady and consistent flow of power.

    On the manual version the engine must first build up boost pressure after the driver has engaged the clutch--and this takes a few fractions of a second. A further point is that clutch and wheel slip when engaging the clutch impairs the optimum conversion of engine power into actual drive power on the road."

    Mar 3, 2006 4:49:19 PM

    JimFlat6
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    Reply to: Wonderbar

    Re: audi tiptronic v. audi dsg v. porsche tiptronic

    If you get the Tiptronic, you will feel sooooo old and like you have given up on really driving the car yourself!

    The Tip might be amusing at first, but after a bit of time you will be kicking yourself for not getting the manual.

    Dont order it!

    Mar 3, 2006 4:58:09 PM

    Crash
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    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: audi tiptronic v. audi dsg v. porsche tiptronic

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    If you get the Tiptronic, you will feel sooooo old and like you have given up on really driving the car yourself!

    The Tip might be amusing at first, but after a bit of time you will be kicking yourself for not getting the manual.

    Dont order it!



    Ditto.

    Mar 3, 2006 7:15:00 PM

    TX 911
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    Reply to: Joost

    Re: audi tiptronic v. audi dsg v. porsche tiptronic

    Quote:
    Joost said:
    Dario,
    Remember; how many times do you drive to achieve best 0-100 times, and how many times do you drive for pure pleasure of having your car in control
    -Joost-



    This is a great point. I don't know about you guys, but I almost never go all out 0-60 mph, 0-100 mph, or whatever.

    If the difference were a full second or 2, it would be a factor. For a few tenths of a second, no way would I get a Tip if I really wanted a manual. Hell, even if I did honestly want or need Tip, I would wait for PDK.

    Manual + SSK + LSD = SEX

    In fact, I think that's the code for this option package on the turbo - SEX

    Mar 4, 2006 6:27:32 AM

    Super DariusM
    Rennteam Moderator
    Super Darius
    Loc: Italy-Como , Italy
    Posts: 4084, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 7, 2002
    Reply to: TX 911

    Re: audi tiptronic v. audi dsg v. porsche tiptronic

    Quote:
    TX 911 said:
    Quote:
    Joost said:
    Dario,
    Remember; how many times do you drive to achieve best 0-100 times, and how many times do you drive for pure pleasure of having your car in control
    -Joost-



    This is a great point. I don't know about you guys, but I almost never go all out 0-60 mph, 0-100 mph, or whatever.

    If the difference were a full second or 2, it would be a factor. For a few tenths of a second, no way would I get a Tip if I really wanted a manual. Hell, even if I did honestly want or need Tip, I would wait for PDK.

    Manual + SSK + LSD = SEX

    In fact, I think that's the code for this option package on the turbo - SEX



    ok..today is the day...

    i will go for manual,short shifter,and rear diff lock!


    Mar 4, 2006 8:06:38 AM

    KresoF1
    Rennteam VIP
    KresoF1
    Loc: Croatia , Croatia
    Posts: 7856, Gallery
    Registered on: Dec 3, 2005
    Reply to: Super DariusM

    Re: audi tiptronic v. audi dsg v. porsche tiptronic

    Super D, that is awsome combo! Go for it! Congrats!
     
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