Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - NISSAN GT-R vs REAL LIFE?!?! - Page1

Nov 23, 2008 9:28:36 AM

PorSchelover1: Co-Pilot; Loc: Brazil , Brazil; Posts: 224, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 17, 2007

NISSAN GT-R vs REAL LIFE?!?!

Drivers Republic GT2 v GTR around the Nurburgring

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GT2 - 7:49
GTR - 7:55.9

"so we left the Ring on the close of the second day, the GT2 was the daddy"

PORSCHE GT2
“Given the times we set were both some-way off the manufacturers’ claims, how do we feel about those claims? Well, Walter’s time is 17-seconds faster than this, and having experienced the GT2 at full-afterburner, I have no doubt that the car will achieve that time. I could show you where I’ve lost five seconds on just a handful of sections.

NISSAN GTR
“could the Nissan really go 27-seconds faster? I just don’t know…but I just don’t see where another 27-seconds comes from with the car I drove. I felt that I came much closer to extracting the maximum performance of the Nissan on this single-flying-lap challenge than I did the Porsche.

FINAL
“But be in no doubt, when we left the Ring on the close of the second day, the GT2 was the daddy. We did the times and the Porsche won.”

infos + videos :hihi:

http://magazines.drivers-republic.com/driversrepublic/thetruth030/

and

and What about this now?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4YiAvhA-Lyk

--

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Nov 23, 2008 10:17:38 AM

Eunice: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Karlsruhe , Germany; Posts: 6155, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 27, 2008; Reply to: PorSchelover1

Re: NISSAN GT-R vs REAL LIFE?!?!

I just want to know, how many laps the driver did in a GT2 and how many in a GT-R.

Nissan had a test driver which was driving this car round the ring for months, adjusting the handling to exactly fit his needs.

Isn't that possible that such a driver finds another 7 seconds?

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Nov 23, 2008 11:08:51 AM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: Eunice

Re: NISSAN GT-R vs REAL LIFE?!?!

Eunice:

I just want to know, how many laps the driver did in a GT2 and how many in a GT-R.

Nissan had a test driver which was driving this car round the ring for months, adjusting the handling to exactly fit his needs.

Isn't that possible that such a driver finds another 7 seconds?

The test summary (as posted above) is clear regarding your question: the GTR test result is much closer to the best possible result than the GT2 test result as the track conditions and the driver's skills prevented significantly better times in the GT2...

Thus, the test makes one thing clear: GT2 and GTR are in very different leagues. However, who would have thought differently?

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Nov 23, 2008 12:40:12 PM

SteveD: Co-Pilot; Loc: UK, M3 CSL/X6 35d/TT , United Kingdom; Posts: 247, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 18, 2003; Reply to: Eunice

Re: NISSAN GT-R vs REAL LIFE?!?!

Eunice:

I just want to know, how many laps the driver did in a GT2 and how many in a GT-R.

Nissan had a test driver which was driving this car round the ring for months, adjusting the handling to exactly fit his needs.

Isn't that possible that such a driver finds another 7 seconds?

Eunice, the answer to your question is 3 laps for each car. It's the same approach we apply to all of our track tests, and shows not just how quick a car is but also how easy the speed is to extract. It also avoids one car suffering because of lesser brakes or less suitable tyres.

--
____________________________________ Steve

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Nov 23, 2008 5:32:10 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: SteveD

Re: NISSAN GT-R vs REAL LIFE?!?!

SteveD:

Eunice:

I just want to know, how many laps the driver did in a GT2 and how many in a GT-R.

Nissan had a test driver which was driving this car round the ring for months, adjusting the handling to exactly fit his needs.

Isn't that possible that such a driver finds another 7 seconds?

Eunice, the answer to your question is 3 laps for each car. It's the same approach we apply to all of our track tests, and shows not just how quick a car is but also how easy the speed is to extract. It also avoids one car suffering because of lesser brakes or less suitable tyres.

--
____________________________________ Steve

Compare it with Formula 1 drivers going to new circuits. It only takes them just a few laps to get lap times down to their own optimum for that circuit for a given car on a given day. After those few laps, a variation of the "law of diminishing returns" applies and no tangible further improvements are made.

For a newbie, the Nürburgring would naturally take longer to learn than a GP circuit, but that would not matter here because the same driver with the same track-specific experience drove both cars there on the same day.

The 3-lap test program should favor the GT-R, because its performance is ackowledged to be more easily accessible than that of the GT2 for drivers less familiar with the cars. In spite of this, the GT2 had the better lap time in the test.

Incidentally, the 3-lap program also worked in favor of the GT-R, because its braking performance was falling off at the end of this short program. The brakes on the GT2, like its engine and transmission cooling systems, will have been laid out to let it keep going until it runs out of fuel, tire tread profile, brake pads, or driver stamina - whichever comes first.

It's unfortunate that this test was carried out under damp conditions and was therefore not as conclusive as it might have been. So we still have to wait for Sport Auto's Supertest report next spring.

So there's no pressure, Horst von Saurma. Smiley

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Nov 23, 2008 5:40:31 PM

Heist: Rennteam Master; Loc: Washington, DC , United States; Posts: 4147, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 15, 2007; Reply to: fritz

Re: NISSAN GT-R vs REAL LIFE?!?!

Not for nothing - but the GT-R has and was never supposed to be benchmarked to the GT-2.

The 911TT yes, but not the GT-2.

Maybe in another year if they wanted to throw the VSpec GT-R up against the GT-2, that would be a more worthwhile and salient comparison.

--
...the only thing stopping you, is you!

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Nov 23, 2008 5:59:31 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: Heist

Re: NISSAN GT-R vs REAL LIFE?!?!

Heist:

Not for nothing - but the GT-R has and was never supposed to be benchmarked to the GT-2.

The 911TT yes, but not the GT-2.

Maybe in another year if they wanted to throw the VSpec GT-R up against the GT-2, that would be a more worthwhile and salient comparison.

The conclusive confirmation I am waiting for is not a matter of comparative results between the GT-R and any other car model in particular.

I am interested in confirmation that the N'Ring lap time claimed by Nissan can or cannot be achieved with a GT-R with the standard street specs, as claimed by Nissan.

As far as I am concerned, this question is a matter of academic interest, but it does also have an ethical aspect, of course. Smiley

--
fritz

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Nov 23, 2008 7:55:55 PM

Eunice: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Karlsruhe , Germany; Posts: 6155, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 27, 2008; Reply to: fritz

Re: NISSAN GT-R vs REAL LIFE?!?!

Heist:

Not for nothing - but the GT-R has and was never supposed to be benchmarked to the GT-2.

Well, they did claim that it's the fastest production car on the ring, that makes ANY car a benchmark.

However, if you're looking at the price, even being compared to a GT2 is an achievement.

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Nov 23, 2008 9:21:40 PM

JoeRockhead: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Topside , Monaco; Posts: 8033, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 17, 2007; Reply to: Eunice

Re: NISSAN GT-R vs REAL LIFE?!?!

Eunice:

Heist:

Not for nothing - but the GT-R has and was never supposed to be benchmarked to the GT-2.

Well, they did claim that it's the fastest production car on the ring, that makes ANY car a benchmark.

However, if you're looking at the price, even being compared to a GT2 is an achievement.

I don't know, 2 or 3 busted tranny's down the road and you're in the GT2 ball park with cost of ownership. Smiley

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Nov 23, 2008 9:36:54 PM

throt: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 6078, Gallery; Registered on: May 9, 2005; Reply to: JoeRockhead

Re: NISSAN GT-R vs REAL LIFE?!?!

GTR is an amazing piece of kit for the money..You cant knock it.....
--

throt

"I didn't do it"

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Nov 23, 2008 10:57:08 PM

JoeRockhead: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Topside , Monaco; Posts: 8033, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 17, 2007; Reply to: throt

Re: NISSAN GT-R vs REAL LIFE?!?!

throt:
GTR is an amazing piece of kit for the money..You cant knock it.....
--

throt

"I didn't do it"

I'm not knocking it, the current owners are. If they over engineered it and charged say 30K more for a car that didn't break, I would agree with you. You get what you pay for.

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Nov 24, 2008 3:43:10 AM

Heist: Rennteam Master; Loc: Washington, DC , United States; Posts: 4147, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 15, 2007; Reply to: JoeRockhead

Re: NISSAN GT-R vs REAL LIFE?!?!

Guys, I think what we have is not a CAR failure - but a component failure by parts supplier. Let's not be so quick to tear the entire car down. It's still a damn amazing machine for the price and like every brand new car with fresh sheet of paper engineering, there's to be expected a few issues.

Porsche had the Rear Main Seal issue in both 911's and Boxsters .. M3's engines in the E46 would grenade themselves after a few thousand miles. The new M3 DKT tranny stalls the car and shifts horribly until you get a software update. The Gallardo would EAT UP the clutch material if you tried to feather in the clutch like you do in stop and go traffic to gently ease the car up ... you had to learn to let traffic go like 4-5 lengths and then brisky accelerate

At least this is a completely AVOIDABLE issue by using the L/C feature sparingly or not at all.

--
...the only thing stopping you, is you!

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Nov 24, 2008 7:09:19 AM

AUM: Veteran; Loc: Germany; Posts: 1203, Gallery; Registered on: May 2, 2006; Reply to: Heist

Re: NISSAN GT-R vs REAL LIFE?!?!

The GTR was on the slower Bridgestone tires. The Dunlops are about 7 seconds faster. This would make the lap times about equal.
--

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Nov 24, 2008 7:22:07 AM

AUM: Veteran; Loc: Germany; Posts: 1203, Gallery; Registered on: May 2, 2006; Reply to: AUM

Re: NISSAN GT-R vs REAL LIFE?!?!

Nissan taking 2010 GT-R back to the 'Ring

11-21-2008 03:29 PM

Filed under: Coupes, Sports/GTs, Supercars, Nissan

The Nissan GT-R has a relationship with the famed Nurburgring in Germany like no other modern car. It has brought the track back into the headlines by taking out much more expensive hardware with a blistering, though unofficial, lap time of 7 minutes, 29 seconds. That number has since been eclipsed by the Corvette ZR1and Dodge Viper ACR, but remains ahead of the GT2 despite Porsche's accusation that Nissan ran a less-than-stock GT-R. Well, the GT-R in Japan is getting some upgrades for 2010, and Nissan is reportedly headed back to the 'Ring to see what it'll do. The changes include a slight increase in power to 485 PS, or about a 5-horsepower bump, as well as a new compound Dunlop tire and suspension tweaks. Other mods include a larger fuel tank and some very minor cosmetic changes that won't make a damn bit of a difference on the track. Will the GT-R be able to best its 7:29 lap time? We're guessing they wouldn't bother to make the trip if they weren't certain there were at least a couple of tenths to shave off.

http://zilvia.net/f/nissan-news/226141-nissan-taking-2010-gt-r-back-ring.html

--

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Nov 24, 2008 7:59:14 AM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: AUM

Re: NISSAN GT-R vs REAL LIFE?!?!

Quite interesting to see that the GTR needs a Facelift so soon after launch.

Nissan probably did not expect their marketing lie to blow up so soon...

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Nov 24, 2008 1:13:04 PM

Porsche9146: Newbie; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 2, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 24, 2008; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: NISSAN GT-R vs REAL LIFE?!?!

So why is the GT2 so much slower compared to Walters lap time?

Nowadays 7:49 is not very quick for a supercar.

The LP560's result (7: 52 done by sa) was also dissapointing for the cars spec.

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Nov 24, 2008 2:02:41 PM

JoeRockhead: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Topside , Monaco; Posts: 8033, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 17, 2007; Reply to: Heist

Re: NISSAN GT-R vs REAL LIFE?!?!

Heist:

Guys, I think what we have is not a CAR failure - but a component failure by parts supplier.

Well it seems Nissan was expecting this to happen, as they included this page in the owner's manual. Not exactly confidence inspiring.

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Nov 24, 2008 3:32:47 PM

Heist: Rennteam Master; Loc: Washington, DC , United States; Posts: 4147, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 15, 2007; Reply to: JoeRockhead

Re: NISSAN GT-R vs REAL LIFE?!?!

JoeRockhead:

Heist:

Guys, I think what we have is not a CAR failure - but a component failure by parts supplier.

Well it seems Nissan was expecting this to happen, as they included this page in the owner's manual. Not exactly confidence inspiring.

WHAT?!!! WOW!

I never knew about that. Is that for real or some kind of photoshop thing?

If not, the minute I saw that page in the manual I would have promptly turned back the keys and asked for my money back + interest for the time they held the deposit. That's cool for a track machine - but this is supposed to be an everyday road car.

Worse, it proves without question Nissan knew there a weakness. That's really f*cked up. Why do such a fantastic job with the entire car only to do something as stupid as this and ruin their reputation? They could have delayed the release date another few months or so to strengthen trannies -- it would have been no big deal.

I'm dissapointed. I still like the car and think it's an amazing piece of engineering when seen as a whole, but I'm very very dissapointed in Nissan.

--
...the only thing stopping you, is you!

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Nov 24, 2008 3:49:08 PM

JoeRockhead: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Topside , Monaco; Posts: 8033, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 17, 2007; Reply to: Heist

Re: NISSAN GT-R vs REAL LIFE?!?!

Heist:

WHAT?!!! WOW!

I never knew about that. Is that for real or some kind of photoshop thing?

Page 52 of the Warranty and Service Guide. "Transmission replacement log" it says. Routine maintenance: brake pads, wiper blades, transmission etc.: Smiley

http://www.nissanusa.com/pdf/techpubs/gtr/2009/2009_GTR_SMG.pdf

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Nov 24, 2008 4:03:39 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: Porsche9146

Re: NISSAN GT-R vs REAL LIFE?!?!

Porsche9146:

So why is the GT2 so much slower compared to Walters lap time?

Nowadays 7:49 is not very quick for a supercar.

The LP560's result (7: 52 done by sa) was also dissapointing for the cars spec.

The Sport Auto magazine time is 7.33 for the GT2.

If you read DR report and watch their videos, conditions were very damp when they set their time, after heavy rain. Actually the conditions favoured the 4wd Nissan much more.

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Nov 24, 2008 4:05:29 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: Porsche9146

Re: NISSAN GT-R vs REAL LIFE?!?!

Porsche9146:

So why is the GT2 so much slower compared to Walters lap time?

It is not. Supertest time is 7.33. 100% matches the factory claim Smiley

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Nov 24, 2008 5:03:17 PM

TEE: Veteran; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 929, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 5, 2003; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: NISSAN GT-R vs REAL LIFE?!?!

This is the best article I have read in a long time. well done and the DR concept is really showing off now. Great article, pictures interlaced with video and other effects.

Perhaps I need to reconsider the potential of the GT2

--
Off enjoying my car...

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Nov 24, 2008 6:06:00 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: NISSAN GT-R vs REAL LIFE?!?!

How do The N0-rated MPSC tyres on the GT2 compare against the Bidgestones, worn by the GT-R, when it comes to the damp test conditions? Would the GT-R in fact be quicker with the Dunlops or not?

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Nov 24, 2008 6:12:04 PM

BiTurbo: Rennteam Master; Loc: X , United States; Posts: 3251, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2006; Reply to: Crash

Re: NISSAN GT-R vs REAL LIFE?!?!

Shame on Nissan to step up into the supercars territory (Porsche, Ferrari, Zonda etc...) and claim to be a supercar killer for 1/2 price.

The 2 things it killed are its transmission and sales Smiley

--
Oh Scheiße!

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Nov 24, 2008 8:09:02 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: TEE

Re: NISSAN GT-R vs REAL LIFE?!?!

TEE1:

This is the best article I have read in a long time. well done and the DR concept is really showing off now. Great article, pictures interlaced with video and other effects.

--
Off enjoying my car...

Abosultely agree Smiley

The DR format clearly shows the benfits of modern IT/Internet. The inclusion of videos, the format that allows you to browse through the article - absolutely great Smiley

Also, the concept of using private customer cars for tests is a good idea as this avoids the rather long wait for various cars to be released by the OEMs for the Sportauto Supertest...

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Nov 24, 2008 8:11:40 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: Crash

Re: NISSAN GT-R vs REAL LIFE?!?!

Crash:
How do The N0-rated MPSC tyres on the GT2 compare against the Bidgestones, worn by the GT-R, when it comes to the damp test conditions? Would the GT-R in fact be quicker with the Dunlops or not?

Only the test team could probably answer this question. It all depends on the track conditions (how wet was it? in which sectors of the track?), right?

BTW, great to have you back here Smiley Smiley Smiley

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Nov 24, 2008 9:48:43 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: NISSAN GT-R vs REAL LIFE?!?!

MKSGR:

Crash:
How do The N0-rated MPSC tyres on the GT2 compare against the Bidgestones, worn by the GT-R, when it comes to the damp test conditions? Would the GT-R in fact be quicker with the Dunlops or not?

Only the test team could probably answer this question. It all depends on the track conditions (how wet was it? in which sectors of the track?), right?

BTW, great to have you back here

Thanks!

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Nov 25, 2008 12:26:47 AM

rhino: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Island , Saint Lucia; Posts: 2866, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 26, 2006; Reply to: Crash

Re: NISSAN GT-R vs REAL LIFE?!?!

Yes Crash the Rennteamers were worried. Welcome back! Smiley

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Nov 25, 2008 1:28:30 AM

eclou: Veteran; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 1182, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 4, 2006; Reply to: Crash

Re: NISSAN GT-R vs REAL LIFE?!?!

Crash:
How do The N0-rated MPSC tyres on the GT2 compare against the Bidgestones, worn by the GT-R, when it comes to the damp test conditions? Would the GT-R in fact be quicker with the Dunlops or not?

Crash, a few folks in the US have tested the softness of the Bridgestone RE70R on a new GTR with a durometer. The results showed it to be about as soft as a Nitto NT01 or Toyo R888, which are not quite as soft as a Michelin Cup. The N spec Michelin Cups or "Cup+" tires are not quite as soft as a non-N spec Cup, which would suggest that the Cup+ and Bridgestone are about on par. The quick wear rate of the Bridgestones (<5k mile lifespan) also suggests the RE70R is essentially an R-compound tire.

--

track vid

0-300kph

chasing a 997GT2

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Nov 25, 2008 7:14:23 AM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: eclou

Re: NISSAN GT-R vs REAL LIFE?!?!

eclou:

Crash:
How do The N0-rated MPSC tyres on the GT2 compare against the Bidgestones, worn by the GT-R, when it comes to the damp test conditions? Would the GT-R in fact be quicker with the Dunlops or not?
Crash, a few folks in the US have tested the softness of the Bridgestone RE70R on a new GTR with a durometer. The results showed it to be about as soft as a Nitto NT01 or Toyo R888, which are not quite as soft as a Michelin Cup. The N spec Michelin Cups or "Cup+" tires are not quite as soft as a non-N spec Cup, which would suggest that the Cup+ and Bridgestone are about on par. The quick wear rate of the Bridgestones (<5k mile lifespan) also suggests the RE70R is essentially an R-compound tire.

--

track vid

0-300kph

chasing a 997GT2

Do you know by chance whether any independant comparison of the Bridgestone and the Dunlop tires were done so far?

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