Crown

the-missile:

I guess it takes some time as well to find vintage side mirrors

2017 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS | GT Silver Metallic - The GT3 Killah!
2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White

Most facelifts screw up a good original design, imo. So we should be thankful that the screwing up appears limited in this case.

KMM:

Most facelifts screw up a good original design, imo. So we should be thankful that the screwing up appears limited in this case.

 

thanks to the screw up on the price increase...

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

Cayenne GTS 2014

SciFrog:
The original Macan turbo is so good its not even worth to upgrade to the new one... The next worthy update will be the EV one.

Not good enough anymore...

Actually, MacanTurbo is “slower”, than it suppose to be for the real ”turbo” model in a lineup.

Just try test driving some other vendor cars in a same power range like bmw m3, power delivery is smooth and strong throughout all rpm range. MacanTurbo is too “slow” in comparison, power delivery is too sluggish and ECONOMY calibrated.
To extract it’s full power potential one has to struggle rising rpm...it’s like trying to extract a cake inside a bottle with a narrow point of entry.

As usual, Porsche AG is robbing a customer in hp department, always withholding appropriate hp increase, but always excels in price encrease department.

Competition from MB and BMW is catching up. The same level models are driving faster, than Porsche. Based on power increase figures for the facelift, Porsche ONLY responded appropriately to the competition, but did not UP the game.

The best job they did with Macan +50hp (it really needed it), then MacanTurbo +40hp (just OK). MacanS +20hp power update is lousy. BMW x3 40i 3.0L, which already has the same 355hp and 370lb torque, drives faster already, than current MacanS 340hp and has a smooth power delivery. Facelifted MacanS +20hp is not enough...

Porsche AG is in a deep arrogant sleep state in Macan model lineup.

Competition already UPed the game...

Since Porsche is the benchmark, competition has to UP-ed their game i order to even attract customers.

ozr:

SciFrog:
The original Macan turbo is so good its not even worth to upgrade to the new one... The next worthy update will be the EV one.

Not good enough anymore...

Actually, MacanTurbo is “slower”, than it suppose to be for the real ”turbo” model in a lineup.

Just try test driving some other vendor cars in a same power range like bmw m3, power delivery is smooth and strong throughout all rpm range. MacanTurbo is too “slow” in comparison, power delivery is too sluggish and ECONOMY calibrated.
To extract it’s full power potential one has to struggle rising rpm...it’s like trying to extract a cake inside a bottle with a narrow point of entry.

As usual, Porsche AG is robbing a customer in hp department, always withholding appropriate hp increase, but always excels in price encrease department.

Competition from MB and BMW is catching up. The same level models are driving faster, than Porsche. Based on power increase figures for the facelift, Porsche ONLY responded appropriately to the competition, but did not UP the game.

The best job they did with Macan +50hp (it really needed it), then MacanTurbo +40hp (just OK). MacanS +20hp power update is lousy. BMW x3 40i 3.0L, which already has the same 355hp and 370lb torque, drives faster already, than current MacanS 340hp and has a smooth power delivery. Facelifted MacanS +20hp is not enough...

Porsche AG is in a deep arrogant sleep state in Macan model lineup.

Competition already UPed the game...

 

 

mate i would encourage you to go and drive a MacanS v a X3 40i. there is no comparison. 

Try the new GLC 63S AMG vs. the Macan Turbo Performance...just saying. 

Even if Porsche gets it better with the chassis with the facelift, they won't be able to do that with the engine (V6).

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

Even if Porsche gets it better with the chassis with the facelift, they won't be able to do that with the engine (V6).

Sadly, that's the new Porsche SUV "recipe".  

Will it continue to sell well?...

Depends,.. how many "unaware" drivers will it be able to trap in the future... 

Able to do what exactly?

I was just given a base Macan as a loaner by my dealer, while they service my car. What a disappointing experience! First thing I noticed is the very long travel of the brake pedal, before the brakes engage. Likely a VW or Audi feature? The other thing I noticed is the lag between front axle and rear axle reactions; likely a side effect of the way the subframes are mounted. I don't recall the Macan S I test drove when the car first came out being this bad. My conclusion was that Porsche should not be building for this price point. I would hate to think that this is the experience many first time Porsche buyers get...

KMM:

I was just given a base Macan as a loaner by my dealer, while they service my car. What a disappointing experience! First thing I noticed is the very long travel of the brake pedal, before the brakes engage. Likely a VW or Audi feature? The other thing I noticed is the lag between front axle and rear axle reactions; likely a side effect of the way the subframes are mounted. I don't recall the Macan S I test drove when the car first came out being this bad. My conclusion was that Porsche should not be building for this price point. I would hate to think that this is the experience many first time Porsche buyers get...

 

Everything is relative... 

If you come from a cheaper asian or european brand then I am sure that this base Macan feels amazing.

2017 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS | GT Silver Metallic - The GT3 Killah!
2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White

bluelines:

 

Everything is relative... 

If you come from a cheaper asian or european brand then I am sure that this base Macan feels amazing.

imagine if you come from the supercar R8

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

Cayenne GTS 2014

If you drive a Macan Turbo with air suspensions , full leather (and ideally power kit) it is an entirely different car than the base Macan.  Like driving a Bmw 320 and an M3, a world apart.  Same with the Cayenne diesel and Cayenne Turbo.

the-missile:

bluelines:

 

Everything is relative... 

If you come from a cheaper asian or european brand then I am sure that this base Macan feels amazing.

imagine if you come from the supercar R8

We had the Macan Turbo before my supercar , trust me...not even close. The Macan has two issues in my opinion: First, it doesn't really feel like a Porsche when you drive it (it is sporty though) and the top engine. A V6 top model engine is a no go in a SUV which easily surpasses 120k EUR (with options), midsize class or not. I do not know the sales figures of the Macan Turbo or Turbo Performance but whoever spends 120-130k for a Macan with V6 engine, is...simply put...nuts.  I realized that quite fast, never enjoyed driving the Macan. Actually on the same driving enjoyment as the Cayenne S Diesel, this one at least had a proper engine, even if heavy and not even close to the nimble handling experience of the Macan.

I guess it is a matter of personal preference and expectations but for me, a proper SUV needs a V8 and monster torque.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

the-missile:

bluelines:

 

Everything is relative... 

If you come from a cheaper asian or european brand then I am sure that this base Macan feels amazing.

imagine if you come from the supercar R8

2017 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS | GT Silver Metallic - The GT3 Killah!
2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White

My point was that Porsche should not be building such a car, period. As RC said, it does not feel like a Porsche, on many dimensions. Slapping the badge on a car with such dynamics to make more money; what's next?

KMM:

My point was that Porsche should not be building such a car, period. As RC said, it does not feel like a Porsche, on many dimensions. Slapping the badge on a car with such dynamics to make more money; what's next?

 

2/3 of the car released from production lines are SUV... and this is what is allowing PAG to release great GT cars in a row.

''New'' rich and emerging market loves the badge and the status such a car gives you.

99% of the macan will never see offroad and it is the same for the cayenne even if they are capable

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

Cayenne GTS 2014

KMM:

My point was that Porsche should not be building such a car, period. As RC said, it does not feel like a Porsche, on many dimensions. Slapping the badge on a car with such dynamics to make more money; what's next?

I believe they tried that strategy once before, to not make money  Not very sustainable.

2017 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS | GT Silver Metallic - The GT3 Killah!
2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White

Just to be sure we cover all the opinions, my pretty loaded full leather Macan turbo was $93k and I couldn’t care less if it had a V6 or a V8 since it is turbo anyway...

bluelines:

KMM:

My point was that Porsche should not be building such a car, period. As RC said, it does not feel like a Porsche, on many dimensions. Slapping the badge on a car with such dynamics to make more money; what's next?

I believe they tried that strategy once before, to not make money  Not very sustainable.

  I'm afraid you could be right, as long as the Macan sells (and it seems to sell well), why should they change anything. I still believe that Porsche made some mistakes (not only with the Macan) but their success proves them right, so... 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

Exactly. I am sorry RC but maybe outside of some of some members here, no one cares about V6 vs V8 in a car like the Macan. The Merc could have 100 more hp, a V6 vs V8 and costs $10k less I still would not buy one.

SciFrog:

Exactly. I am sorry RC but maybe outside of some of some members here, no one cares about V6 vs V8 in a car like the Macan. The Merc could have 100 more hp, a V6 vs V8 and costs $10k less I still would not buy one.

Have you driven one?  Oh...it doesn't have a Porsche badge. Got it.  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

SciFrog:

The Merc could have 100 more hp, a V6 vs V8 and costs $10k less I still would not buy one

Have you driven one?  Oh...it doesn't have a Porsche badge. Got it.  

You know Porsche will give you decent driving dynamics, what ever the model you select.

You know mercedes will not do that for sure except if you start to tick the AMG box and even with that, nothing is guaranteed...G63 AMG ''tank like'' driving dynamics

and for the Macan category and associated customer pool, I am on the frog side, customers do not care about the number of cylinders...let alone the engine size. this is beyond their brain capacity.

--

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

Cayenne GTS 2014

the-missile:

RC:

SciFrog:

The Merc could have 100 more hp, a V6 vs V8 and costs $10k less I still would not buy one

Have you driven one?  Oh...it doesn't have a Porsche badge. Got it.  

You know Porsche will give you decent driving dynamics, what ever the model you select.

You should have tried the Cayenne Diesel (without S)... 

You know mercedes will not do that for sure except if you start to tick the AMG box and even with that, nothing is guaranteed...G63 AMG ''tank like'' driving dynamics

 

 I am always talking about AMG when I talk about Mercedes... The G63 is a bad comparison and you know it.

Try the GLC63 S AMG, fantastic small SUV and at least at par with the current Macan Turbo Performance, if not better (driving dynamics).

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

You should have tried the Cayenne Diesel (without S)... 

I tried the base petrol cayenne while ours was on recall campaign...oh my god

 I am always talking about AMG when I talk about Mercedes... The G63 is a bad comparison and you know it.

Try the GLC63 S AMG, fantastic small SUV and at least at par with the current Macan Turbo Performance, if not better (driving dynamics).

I know you speak only for the AMG models  but the trap was easy I will surely give a try to the GLC AMG just to see what it is all about.

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

Cayenne GTS 2014

the-missile:

I know you speak only for the AMG models  but the trap was easy I will surely give a try to the GLC AMG just to see what it is all about.

 

 I'm not a fan of (non AMG) Mercedes cars, with the exception of the S class maybe (if people are really into luxury sedans). Had only one non-AMG Mercedes in my life, an E190 2.6 (amazing performer for it's time), when I was a student and my father had a CLK 320 business car and a S 560 SE (I hated driving them... ). 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

I don’t care about the badge, I care about cool interesting different cars. The GLC in not a cool car, AMG or not, plus the interior is boring, infotainment system is at least as obsolete as the Macan one. As far as driving dynamics I trust your judgement, but at that level it does it matter anymore? Plus the GLC is new, the Macan is 5 year old... The GLC does not have PDK either and is not in the category of a fun sporty car. The ONLY thing the GLC has is the stealth aspect but since to me that’s actually a negative point, and the fact that it is $10k cheaper than the Macan...

Actually can’t help but thinking that if the GLC was as good as you say, Porsche would have a hard time selling Macan turbo, and we know that’s not the case...

SciFrog:

I don’t care about the badge, I care about cool interesting different cars. The GLC in not a cool car, AMG or not, plus the interior is boring, infotainment system is at least as obsolete as the Macan one. As far as driving dynamics Itrust your judgement, but at that level it doesn’t matter anymore. The GLC does not have PDK either and is not in the category of a fun sporty car. The ONLY thing the GLC has is the stealth aspect but since to me that’s actually a negative point...

Like I said before, drive the GLC63 S...you'd be surprised. Actually, it feels sometimes sportier than my E63S (too much chassis movement when driven "normally"). The E63S starts to feel sporty once you enter "losing your driver's license" territory. It is a weird setup, probably to make the car feel comfortable when driven slowly/normally and making it feel very sporty once you push it hard. I assume the chassis adapts accordingly, even in the sportier driving modes. I got used to it but I have to admit that I only accept this setup because I use it as a daily driver and I sometimes enjoy the soft ride after work (tired) when I drive home. If I had to live with only one "sportscar", I wouldn't have gotten the E63S. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

Today is the day the Macan face lift will be introduced (according to Porsche Instagram)

The rear has been basically adapted to the new 992/Panamera/718 design language.

Also, it seems the Turbo gets 440 hp...

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)