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Board: Porsche - 911 - 997 - Turbo Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

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    Feb 23, 2006 8:59:52 AM

    WR
    Senior
    WR
    Loc: Taipei , Taiwan
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    Registered on: Nov 26, 2005

    997 S Tip Owners... track experience inputs

    hi all,

    tip or no tip, this is always one of the hardest or the longest questions to answer among driving the non-racing spec cars. while following throught out this forum, some have notice really disappointing performance feel of the tip tranny on the new 997 for spirited driving. but has anyone seriously took the 997 S or none S tip to the track and comparing it to the stick? I have done it a few times and like heard your inputs...?
    I think sometime we forget driving pleasure and the whole experience feel is the one most important aspect which cause us all to the develop the 'virus'. It is not always just numbers.... Porsche is always a Porshce and Ferrari is always a Ferrari

    Feb 23, 2006 12:20:31 PM

    RCA
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    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59581, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: WR

    Re: 997 S Tip Owners... track experience inputs

    You can't compare the 997 Carrera S Tiptronic with the 997 Turbo Tiptronic. I don't have details yet but I've been told that the new Tiptronic for the 997 Turbo has been greatly improved regarding shifting reaction time, shifting logic, etc. and that it is a great improvement over the old Tiptronic, especially in combination with the Sport Chrono Turbo package. We still have to figure out what is "new" about the 997 Turbo Tiptronic, if it is still a Mercedes based auto tranny or if it is by Aisin or ZF, whatever.

    I understand that some people don't know if they should order manual or Tiptronic and they are under pressure by their dealers but I'm afraid this is all we got.

    Feb 23, 2006 12:40:37 PM

    BD 997
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    BD 997
    Loc: Boston, MA USA
    Posts: 833, Gallery
    Registered on: Feb 16, 2005
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: 997 S Tip Owners... track experience inputs

    I just wished Porsche would elaborate more on the "new" tip... how it differs from the old? who makes it? etc...

    Feb 23, 2006 7:08:27 PM

    Outlaw_Hawk
    Co-Pilot
    Outlaw_Hawk
    Loc: Qatar
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    Registered on: Feb 6, 2005
    Reply to: WR

    Re: 997 S Tip Owners... track experience inputs

    Quote:
    WR in Taiwan said:
    Porsche is always a Porshce and Ferrari is always a Ferrari



    Thank you

    Feb 23, 2006 8:09:44 PM

    Ville
    Newbie
    Ville
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    Reply to: Outlaw_Hawk

    Re: 997 S Tip Owners... track experience inputs

    From PCNA website.
    : How does the 2007 Porsche 911 Turbo equipped with the optional 5-
    speed Tiptronic S automatic transmission accelerate faster to 60 mph?

    A: The optimized interaction between the new all-wheel-drive system,
    Porsche Traction Management (PTM), Tiptronic S five-speed automatic
    transmission, and Tiptronic-specific calibration of the engine
    management controls and associated variable turbine geometry (VTG)
    system, allows the new 911 Turbo with Tiptronic S to accelerate
    slightly quicker than models equipped with the manual 6-speed
    transmission.

    Improvements to the Tiptronic S transmission in the latest 911 Turbo
    contribute to the performance gains. These include:

    Earlier ramp-up of boost pressure when `brake-torquing' the
    transmission
    Increased torque build-up allowed when brake-torquing
    Reduced shifting- and reaction times
    If launched appropriately, a 911 Turbo equipped with Tiptronic S is
    essentially "pre-tensioned" at the starting line, and during
    acceleration runs, power-interruptions are reduced in comparison to
    the 6-speed manual transmission. Aiding acceleration, when paired
    with Tiptronic S, the all-wheel-drive system with PTM can deliver a
    nearly uninterrupted flow of torque to all four wheels.

    Edit: I'm only a board reader and I wasted my first post on this

    Feb 23, 2006 9:01:26 PM

    JimFlat6
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    JimFlat6
    Loc: Cave , United States
    Posts: 8633, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 25, 2004
    Reply to: Ville

    Re: 997 S Tip Owners... track experience inputs

    Good first post Ville!

    So they went to Pep Boys, bought a competition shift kit for a crappy Ford or GM automatic, looked at the parts and said "we can do that, duh!" Its no big deal to pre load a tranny, make it shift quicker, make its clutchs grab better and optimize its shift points via the engines ECU.

    Did Porsche just discover this potential for the Tiptronic?


    http://www.transmissioncenter.net/Shift_Kits.htm

    Feb 24, 2006 12:13:49 AM

    BD 997
    Veteran
    BD 997
    Loc: Boston, MA USA
    Posts: 833, Gallery
    Registered on: Feb 16, 2005
    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: 997 S Tip Owners... track experience inputs

    whats does 'brake-torquing' mean????

    Feb 24, 2006 2:22:07 AM

    1RAGE
    Junior
    1RAGE
    Loc: Saskatoon, SK, Canada
    Posts: 135, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 31, 2003
    Reply to: BD 997

    Re: 997 S Tip Owners... track experience inputs

    Quote:
    BD 997 said:
    whats does 'brake-torquing' mean????



    http://autorepair.about.com/library/glossary/bldef-030a.htm

    Feb 24, 2006 2:41:03 AM

    BD 997
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    BD 997
    Loc: Boston, MA USA
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    Registered on: Feb 16, 2005
    Reply to: 1RAGE

    Re: 997 S Tip Owners... track experience inputs

    great thanks! but wont that hurt the car if you do it too much? Doesnt sound mechanically healthy... I wouldnt do that to my 150k car... ok maybe once or twice

    Feb 24, 2006 6:22:36 AM

    MKSGRM
    Rennteam Moderator
    MKSGR
    Loc: Germany , Germany
    Posts: 8098, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 17, 2002
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: 997 S Tip Owners... track experience inputs

    Quote:
    RC said:
    You can't compare the 997 Carrera S Tiptronic with the 997 Turbo Tiptronic. I don't have details yet but I've been told that the new Tiptronic for the 997 Turbo has been greatly improved regarding shifting reaction time, shifting logic, etc. and that it is a great improvement over the old Tiptronic, especially in combination with the Sport Chrono Turbo package. We still have to figure out what is "new" about the 997 Turbo Tiptronic, if it is still a Mercedes based auto tranny or if it is by Aisin or ZF, whatever.

    I understand that some people don't know if they should order manual or Tiptronic and they are under pressure by their dealers but I'm afraid this is all we got.



    I am rather sure that it is still based on the old MB auto tranny. Otherwise it would have more than 5 gears (5 gears are a bad compromise - if they developed a new tranny from scratch it would definitively have 6 or 7 gears).

    Feb 24, 2006 6:29:05 AM

    MKSGRM
    Rennteam Moderator
    MKSGR
    Loc: Germany , Germany
    Posts: 8098, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 17, 2002
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: 997 S Tip Owners... track experience inputs

    Quote:
    RC said:
    I understand that some people don't know if they should order manual or Tiptronic and they are under pressure by their dealers but I'm afraid this is all we got.



    Same information policy as in case of the Carrera GT: When the Carrera GT orders were to be confirmed my dealer asked me to submit a downpayment to confirm my Carrera GT order. The draw-back was that he could not tell me little details like final hp figure, weight, performance data, etc. at this point of time!

    My conclusion then was to cancel the oder completely. And you know what: that has been the very best decision in my automotive career. I would never have been happy with the Carrera GT as it is an underperformer (from my personal standpoint).

    Quite disappointing test results all over the place. Inacceptable at that price tag.

    Apparently Porsche is following the same information strategy in case of the 997TT. I would not order the car based on the very limited (and unfavourable) data available.

    There is a substantual risk that customers will be disappointed

    Feb 24, 2006 7:15:06 AM

    WR
    Senior
    WR
    Loc: Taipei , Taiwan
    Posts: 637, Gallery
    Registered on: Nov 26, 2005
    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: 997 S Tip Owners... track experience inputs

    Guys, who ever gets the new 997tt wins! No matter what kind of tranny it gets or what AWD it has, we all know that it is going to be an exciting car to drive! If RC do get it first, do share with rest of us on how it perform on street. Not just 0-100 numbers...

    Feb 24, 2006 8:39:29 AM

    rhino
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    rhino
    Loc: Island , Saint Lucia
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: 997 S Tip Owners... track experience inputs

    MKSGR: very well stated, I agree with your statements about the Carrera gt. For the price, it is definately an under performer. I wasnt aware it also had very limited info when it came out, and dealers were expecting thier customers to fork out that hard earned cash...

    Feb 24, 2006 12:47:59 PM

    BD 997
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    BD 997
    Loc: Boston, MA USA
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: 997 S Tip Owners... track experience inputs

    anyone here track a tip?? Id also like to know how it performs on the track... I wonder how the NEW tips response time is in manual shifting (from the buttons on the wheel)....

    Feb 24, 2006 7:39:53 PM

    MKSGRM
    Rennteam Moderator
    MKSGR
    Loc: Germany , Germany
    Posts: 8098, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 17, 2002
    Reply to: rhino

    Re: 997 S Tip Owners... track experience inputs

    Quote:
    rhino said:
    MKSGR: very well stated, I agree with your statements about the Carrera gt. For the price, it is definately an under performer. I wasnt aware it also had very limited info when it came out, and dealers were expecting thier customers to fork out that hard earned cash...



    Indeed, they asked for Euro 50.000 (if I remeber correctly). Without any meaningful details on the final product

    Feb 25, 2006 2:29:35 PM

    pierre
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    pierre
    Loc: there , Switzerland
    Posts: 1192, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 7, 2002
    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: 997 S Tip Owners... track experience inputs

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Same information policy as in case of the Carrera GT: When the Carrera GT orders were to be confirmed my dealer asked me to submit a downpayment to confirm my Carrera GT order. The draw-back was that he could not tell me little details like final hp figure, weight, performance data, etc. at this point of time!



    You forgot one little detail: even the price wasn't known either.

    --p

    Feb 25, 2006 6:21:51 PM

    MKSGRM
    Rennteam Moderator
    MKSGR
    Loc: Germany , Germany
    Posts: 8098, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 17, 2002
    Reply to: pierre

    Re: 997 S Tip Owners... track experience inputs

    Quote:
    pierre said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Same information policy as in case of the Carrera GT: When the Carrera GT orders were to be confirmed my dealer asked me to submit a downpayment to confirm my Carrera GT order. The draw-back was that he could not tell me little details like final hp figure, weight, performance data, etc. at this point of time!



    You forgot one little detail: even the price wasn't known either.

    --p



    You are right, crazy to think of it now
     
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