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    Feb 17, 2006 3:03:43 AM

    faterikcartman
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    faterikcartman
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    997tt or 997 GT3 or BOTH??? Financial Question

    I'm hot for both cars and cannot seem to decide (but since I'll have at least another six months to wait before my turn to order comes up maybe I'll cool my jets by then (R8 and new NSX get closer as time goes on)).

    If I can get clearance from my wife, which I can (bless her heart), what sort of income and net worth do you think someone should have to blow that kind of money on both cars?

    If I knew I wouldn't be asking here. My wife says she wants the last check she writes before she dies to bounce. Me, I don't want to have regrets on $250,000 worth of car.

    Our particulars--late thirties and no kids (yet anyway).

    At what income and wealth level would you think it "relatively" reasonable to splurge on both cars?

    Feb 17, 2006 3:17:20 AM

    sdy284
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    Reply to: faterikcartman

    Re: 997tt or 997 GT3 or BOTH??? Financial Question

    well you know what they say, if you have to ask, you can't afford it

    Feb 17, 2006 3:18:48 AM

    Turbo Al Offline
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    Reply to: faterikcartman

    Re: 997tt or 997 GT3 or BOTH??? Financial Question

    Quote:
    faterikcartman said:
    I'm hot for both cars and cannot seem to decide (but since I'll have at least another six months to wait before my turn to order comes up maybe I'll cool my jets by then (R8 and new NSX get closer as time goes on)).

    If I can get clearance from my wife, which I can (bless her heart), what sort of income and net worth do you think someone should have to blow that kind of money on both cars?

    If I knew I wouldn't be asking here. My wife says she wants the last check she writes before she dies to bounce. Me, I don't want to have regrets on $250,000 worth of car.

    Our particulars--late thirties and no kids (yet anyway).

    At what income and wealth level would you think it "relatively" reasonable to splurge on both cars?



    To buy both cars (? total of $250,000USD at the least, depending on options), your annual income should be at least double that after Uncle Sam takes half of it, preferably 4X (7 figures), and your net worth should be at least $2 million.

    I disagree with your wife's "bounced check" position-I believe all Americans should have a wealth "buffer" enabling them to die with money left over to give to charity, if not to offspring.

    I highly disrepsect the American attitude that they are on the planet to spend all their money, this suggests that their work, their labors is for that reason only. It ends up encouraging Americans to do what they succeeded in doing in the 4th quarter of 2005-spend more money than they have (our nation's net savings rate was for the first time NEGATIVE).

    Sorry for the rant, man.

    Feb 17, 2006 3:27:51 AM

    carcam
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    Reply to: faterikcartman

    Re: 997tt or 997 GT3 or BOTH??? Financial Question

    I'n my earlier days, my accountant said anything I could pay cash for was fair game. Now, in my 50's, kids in college, thinking about retirement I'm told no more than 10% of your net worth should be in depreciating assests (porsches/ferraris, etc). Your choice. On the other hand, you're young enough and if you can afford it, why not get what you want now and worry about kids and retirement later...

    Feb 17, 2006 4:22:58 AM

    faterikcartman
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    Reply to: Turbo Al

    Re: 997tt or 997 GT3 or BOTH??? Financial Question

    Quote:
    Turbo Al said:
    Quote:
    faterikcartman said:
    I'm hot for both cars and cannot seem to decide (but since I'll have at least another six months to wait before my turn to order comes up maybe I'll cool my jets by then (R8 and new NSX get closer as time goes on)).

    If I can get clearance from my wife, which I can (bless her heart), what sort of income and net worth do you think someone should have to blow that kind of money on both cars?

    If I knew I wouldn't be asking here. My wife says she wants the last check she writes before she dies to bounce. Me, I don't want to have regrets on $250,000 worth of car.

    Our particulars--late thirties and no kids (yet anyway).

    At what income and wealth level would you think it "relatively" reasonable to splurge on both cars?



    To buy both cars (? total of $250,000USD at the least, depending on options), your annual income should be at least double that after Uncle Sam takes half of it, preferably 4X (7 figures), and your net worth should be at least $2 million.

    I disagree with your wife's "bounced check" position-I believe all Americans should have a wealth "buffer" enabling them to die with money left over to give to charity, if not to offspring.

    I highly disrepsect the American attitude that they are on the planet to spend all their money, this suggests that their work, their labors is for that reason only. It ends up encouraging Americans to do what they succeeded in doing in the 4th quarter of 2005-spend more money than they have (our nation's net savings rate was for the first time NEGATIVE).

    Sorry for the rant, man.



    Turbo Al, I showed my wife your post and she says why do charitable organizations have to wait until she dies to get a hand? She points out we give generously throughout the year. She also said she totally disrespects the non-American attitude of other countries who either relentlessly and continuously enjoy the generosity of the USA which eclipses all other nations and also totally disrespects the attitude of European countries who have mooched off of US defense spending and military protection for the past fifty years and still haven't reached our standard of living or levels of charitable giving.

    Sorry for rant (that's from me, not her, she's not sorry).

    Feb 17, 2006 4:39:15 AM

    SciFrog Offline
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    Reply to: faterikcartman

    Re: 997tt or 997 GT3 or BOTH??? Financial Question

    Quote:
    faterikcartman said:
    I'm hot for both cars and cannot seem to decide (but since I'll have at least another six months to wait before my turn to order comes up maybe I'll cool my jets by then (R8 and new NSX get closer as time goes on)).

    If I can get clearance from my wife, which I can (bless her heart), what sort of income and net worth do you think someone should have to blow that kind of money on both cars?

    If I knew I wouldn't be asking here. My wife says she wants the last check she writes before she dies to bounce. Me, I don't want to have regrets on $250,000 worth of car.

    Our particulars--late thirties and no kids (yet anyway).

    At what income and wealth level would you think it "relatively" reasonable to splurge on both cars?



    Income before tax close to $1mio or net worth higher than $10mio. At your age without kids, less would be foolish.

    If you are nowhere near these numbers, be happy to be able to buy just one of them (no kids, if you even think about track, get the GT3).

    Feb 17, 2006 4:48:37 AM

    SoCal Alan
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    Reply to: faterikcartman

    Re: 997tt or 997 GT3 or BOTH??? Financial Question

    Quote:
    faterikcartman said:
    Quote:
    Turbo Al said:
    Quote:
    faterikcartman said:
    I'm hot for both cars and cannot seem to decide (but since I'll have at least another six months to wait before my turn to order comes up maybe I'll cool my jets by then (R8 and new NSX get closer as time goes on)).

    If I can get clearance from my wife, which I can (bless her heart), what sort of income and net worth do you think someone should have to blow that kind of money on both cars?

    If I knew I wouldn't be asking here. My wife says she wants the last check she writes before she dies to bounce. Me, I don't want to have regrets on $250,000 worth of car.

    Our particulars--late thirties and no kids (yet anyway).

    At what income and wealth level would you think it "relatively" reasonable to splurge on both cars?



    To buy both cars (? total of $250,000USD at the least, depending on options), your annual income should be at least double that after Uncle Sam takes half of it, preferably 4X (7 figures), and your net worth should be at least $2 million.

    I disagree with your wife's "bounced check" position-I believe all Americans should have a wealth "buffer" enabling them to die with money left over to give to charity, if not to offspring.

    I highly disrepsect the American attitude that they are on the planet to spend all their money, this suggests that their work, their labors is for that reason only. It ends up encouraging Americans to do what they succeeded in doing in the 4th quarter of 2005-spend more money than they have (our nation's net savings rate was for the first time NEGATIVE).

    Sorry for the rant, man.



    Turbo Al, I showed my wife your post and she says why do charitable organizations have to wait until she dies to get a hand? She points out we give generously throughout the year. She also said she totally disrespects the non-American attitude of other countries who either relentlessly and continuously enjoy the generosity of the USA which eclipses all other nations and also totally disrespects the attitude of European countries who have mooched off of US defense spending and military protection for the past fifty years and still haven't reached our standard of living or levels of charitable giving.

    Sorry for rant (that's from me, not her, she's not sorry).



    Hi Erik,

    you're pretty new here so you don't really know this yet. We're trying really hard to avoid political discussions here because it usually gets out of hand.

    As far as the financial question, I think that since you're both in your late thirties, I'm kind of surprised that you need our advice. You probably already know the answer. But here's my advice. Make sure that the $250K you're planning to spend is an amount that you can lose and that it doesn't affect your financial situation (in any significant way) currently and in the future. If it feels comfortable to both of you, then do it. If you were planning to have kids, have them now, while you still can. I'm on my second right now (wife's 6 months pregnant). (Which is one reason why I can't go to Geneva for the 997TT intro )

    Feb 17, 2006 4:57:45 AM

    SciFrog Offline
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    Reply to: SoCal Alan

    Re: 997tt or 997 GT3 or BOTH??? Financial Question

    Quote:
    I'm on my second right now (wife's 6 months pregnant). (Which is one reason why I can't go to Geneva for the 997TT intro )



    Wife is 5 months pregnant and she's more excited than me to go to Geneva...

    Feb 17, 2006 5:00:04 AM

    faterikcartman
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    Reply to: SoCal Alan

    Re: 997tt or 997 GT3 or BOTH??? Financial Question

    Alan, I knew that was the policy but my wife was pretty flipped out by the political provocation and America bashing, and to be honest I thought it was a cheap shot and unneccessary too.

    We're more like $1.4M (net, after obligations) and $300K/YR.

    I'm asking because we've been cheapskates with cars our whole lives (together and previously) and figured you guys and gals would have better experience dropping big money on cars and how it has affected you and your finances.

    Obviously we could pay cash for both but the opportunity cost is what I worry about.

    Feb 17, 2006 5:13:31 AM

    SciFrog Offline
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    Reply to: faterikcartman

    Re: 997tt or 997 GT3 or BOTH??? Financial Question

    Feb 17, 2006 5:18:37 AM

    JP66 Offline
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    Reply to: faterikcartman

    Re: 997tt or 997 GT3 or BOTH??? Financial Question

    Quote:
    faterikcartman said:
    If I can get clearance from my wife



    Feb 17, 2006 5:27:21 AM

    SoCal Alan
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    Reply to: JP66

    Re: 997tt or 997 GT3 or BOTH??? Financial Question

    Quote:
    JP66 said:
    Quote:
    faterikcartman said:
    If I can get clearance from my wife







    If it makes you feel any better, I never even told my wife I was buying a 997S. I just told her that I ordered it a few months earlier, that it was built and waiting at the San Diego port, and that I would be picking it up in a few days. She said "that's nice".

    How's that for a wife?

    Feb 17, 2006 5:41:51 AM

    faterikcartman
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    Reply to: SoCal Alan

    Re: 997tt or 997 GT3 or BOTH??? Financial Question

    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    JP66 said:
    Quote:
    faterikcartman said:
    If I can get clearance from my wife







    If it makes you feel any better, I never even told my wife I was buying a 997S. I just told her that I ordered it a few months earlier, that it was built and waiting at the San Diego port, and that I would be picking it up in a few days. She said "that's nice".

    How's that for a wife?



    I was looking for the "I'm not worthy" emoticon graemlin; that has me beat, no doubt!

    Feb 17, 2006 5:57:38 AM

    vinnie
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    Reply to: faterikcartman

    Re: 997tt or 997 GT3 or BOTH??? Financial Question

    I would say that anymore than 5% of your capital is too much money spent on a depreciating asset/assets. If you're $1.4M net I would say that's far too little to spend 250k, I'd spend no more than 70k on a car/cars in your situation.
    If you buy the two Porsches it's almost 18% of your net wealth!!

    Feb 17, 2006 7:13:52 AM

    faterikcartman
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    Reply to: vinnie

    Re: 997tt or 997 GT3 or BOTH??? Financial Question

    I should have been a trust fund baby!

    Feb 17, 2006 8:17:22 AM

    Crash
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    Reply to: faterikcartman

    Re: 997tt or 997 GT3 or BOTH??? Financial Question

    Quote:
    faterikcartman said:
    Quote:
    Turbo Al said:
    Quote:
    faterikcartman said:
    I'm hot for both cars and cannot seem to decide (but since I'll have at least another six months to wait before my turn to order comes up maybe I'll cool my jets by then (R8 and new NSX get closer as time goes on)).

    If I can get clearance from my wife, which I can (bless her heart), what sort of income and net worth do you think someone should have to blow that kind of money on both cars?

    If I knew I wouldn't be asking here. My wife says she wants the last check she writes before she dies to bounce. Me, I don't want to have regrets on $250,000 worth of car.

    Our particulars--late thirties and no kids (yet anyway).

    At what income and wealth level would you think it "relatively" reasonable to splurge on both cars?



    To buy both cars (? total of $250,000USD at the least, depending on options), your annual income should be at least double that after Uncle Sam takes half of it, preferably 4X (7 figures), and your net worth should be at least $2 million.

    I disagree with your wife's "bounced check" position-I believe all Americans should have a wealth "buffer" enabling them to die with money left over to give to charity, if not to offspring.

    I highly disrepsect the American attitude that they are on the planet to spend all their money, this suggests that their work, their labors is for that reason only. It ends up encouraging Americans to do what they succeeded in doing in the 4th quarter of 2005-spend more money than they have (our nation's net savings rate was for the first time NEGATIVE).

    Sorry for the rant, man.



    Turbo Al, I showed my wife your post and she says why do charitable organizations have to wait until she dies to get a hand? She points out we give generously throughout the year. She also said she totally disrespects the non-American attitude of other countries who either relentlessly and continuously enjoy the generosity of the USA which eclipses all other nations and also totally disrespects the attitude of European countries who have mooched off of US defense spending and military protection for the past fifty years and still haven't reached our standard of living or levels of charitable giving.

    Sorry for rant (that's from me, not her, she's not sorry).



    Tell your wife to get a life (hey, that rhymes ). I'll respect the moderators' wish to avoid political discussions, but your wife wouldn't fare to well in Europe, especially with her "Americans are superior" attitude and her "generosity" comments (don't make me laugh).

    With regard to affording the cars, I'd say don't do it if you don't earn at least 4x as much annually and have several times that in assets.

    Feb 17, 2006 8:18:34 AM

    Crash
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    Reply to: vinnie

    Re: 997tt or 997 GT3 or BOTH??? Financial Question

    Quote:
    vinnie said:
    I would say that anymore than 5% of your capital is too much money spent on a depreciating asset/assets. If you're $1.4M net I would say that's far too little to spend 250k, I'd spend no more than 70k on a car/cars in your situation.
    If you buy the two Porsches it's almost 18% of your net wealth!!



    That's good thinking, but you're forgetting what the words "car NUT" mean

    Feb 17, 2006 10:04:29 AM

    Alan(NJ)
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    Reply to: faterikcartman

    A suggestion - ask a financial advisor

    he'll set you straight about future college, health care and retirement costs, etc and what the real cost of investing 18% of your "wealth" in depreciating assets will mean to you.

    Here's a simple question - are you planning to have kids?
    If the answer is yes, I'd really think twice about it.

    BTW, does net wealth include the value of your home? Is your home paid for - no mortgage? If not, you're kidding yourself about your new worth.

    Feb 17, 2006 11:27:43 AM

    RCA
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    Reply to: sdy284

    Re: 997tt or 997 GT3 or BOTH??? Financial Question

    Quote:
    sdy284 said:
    well you know what they say, if you have to ask, you can't afford it



    Feb 17, 2006 12:50:12 PM

    Fast Fred
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    Reply to: vinnie

    Re: 997tt or 997 GT3 or BOTH??? Financial Question

    Quote:
    vinnie said:
    I would say that anymore than 5% of your capital is too much money spent on a depreciating asset/assets. If you're $1.4M net I would say that's far too little to spend 250k, I'd spend no more than 70k on a car/cars in your situation.
    If you buy the two Porsches it's almost 18% of your net wealth!!



    So what ? Leaves you 82 % of it... I can't see any problem, especially when you're a car lover !

    Feb 17, 2006 1:37:06 PM

    throt
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    Reply to: faterikcartman

    Re: 997tt or 997 GT3 or BOTH??? Financial Question

    Quote:
    faterikcartman said:
    I'm hot for both cars and cannot seem to decide (but since I'll have at least another six months to wait before my turn to order comes up maybe I'll cool my jets by then (R8 and new NSX get closer as time goes on)).

    If I can get clearance from my wife, which I can (bless her heart), what sort of income and net worth do you think someone should have to blow that kind of money on both cars?

    If I knew I wouldn't be asking here. My wife says she wants the last check she writes before she dies to bounce. Me, I don't want to have regrets on $250,000 worth of car.

    Our particulars--late thirties and no kids (yet anyway).

    At what income and wealth level would you think it "relatively" reasonable to splurge on both cars?



    It also depends on how you are going to purchase them ?? ..

    If its finance your using thats when the %'s should come in to play . On this basis the max I would say is acceptable to pay out would be 10% of your net monthly income , thats after everything else has been paid for , such as mortgage , utilitys etc etc etc .

    Also you guys want to ride over here in the UK and cruise around the poorer parts of London and elsewhere , the metal on there driveways are sometimes worth more than the damn house's they live in , talk about priority's but I am sure this is not just the UK ..

    Good luck faterikcartman and also I always consult with the Mrs before I have a big spend up , I think there's some ""Macho"" stuff going on above , behave lads ..

    throt..

    Feb 17, 2006 3:34:34 PM

    sato
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    Reply to: faterikcartman

    Re: 997tt or 997 GT3 or BOTH??? Financial Question

    Quote:
    faterikcartman said:We're more like $1.4M (net, after obligations) and $300K/YR.



    I am no expert, but those numbers suggest you should put your money behind one car; nicely optioned. In a couple years, if you are still hot for the other car then pony up for it. At that point you could keep both cars or soften the hit of getting the new car by selling/trading the old one.

    As to which, Turbo or GT3? I say GT3. It is as sporty a set-up as you might desire, giving you the muscle and dexterity to enjoy a number of tracking events while being just civil enough for day-to-day driving. The rationale for getting the GT3 first is twofold. Firstly, as you are in your late 30s your relatively sharper reflexes and acuity should aid you in managing the spiritedness of the GT3's stallions. Secondly, as the car starts at approx. US$107,000.00 it is less of a financial burden.

    If you remain enthralled with the GT3, keep her. Then pick up a nicely optioned Turbo S which should be available when you are ready. By then you should be financially golden. And, hey, as a guy in his early 40s you might prefer the creature comforts and more stable character of Porsche's top of the line souped-up grand tourer.

    Feb 17, 2006 3:55:18 PM

    SoCal Alan
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    Reply to: faterikcartman

    Re: 997tt or 997 GT3 or BOTH??? Financial Question

    Quote:
    faterikcartman said:
    I'm asking because we've been cheapskates with cars our whole lives (together and previously) and figured you guys and gals would have better experience dropping big money on cars and how it has affected you and your finances.




    If you've never had a high performance vehicle, I would suggest getting only one. You don't know if this is really for you, meaning is this something you will feel good about having after the initial novelty wears off. Also, if the $$$ is going to be something you're not comfortable with spending, you may have buyers remorse. So be sure this is the car for you and make sure it's comfortable, financially.

    Another thing is how liquid are you financially? Will you be writing a check or leasing or financing. Either way, obviously, the money has to come from somewhere and if you're not that liquid, a monthly finance payment or lease can be pretty high. I believe that for a fully optioned 997S that the payments can range from $1500-$2000 / month. For a turbo, add 50% on top of that. So approximately $2250-$3000 / month. Are you comfortable spending that much money each month for the next 4-5 years?

    Feb 17, 2006 4:21:17 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: SoCal Alan

    Re: 997tt or 997 GT3 or BOTH??? Financial Question

    My cars are a very significant proportion of my net worth. That's why it's more important for me to buy ones that don't depreciate like a new car (my 73S went up 50% in 4 years).

    If you buy a classic, you're better off from a financial point of view. Also, insurance is VERY cheap for a car older than 25yrs...

    Feb 17, 2006 5:03:50 PM

    MKW
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: 997tt or 997 GT3 or BOTH??? Financial Question

    Pay off debt; fund your retirement fully and manage it wisely ; INVEST your money so it works 24/7 for you . The wealth multiplier effect of time is tremendous .Buy these toys with " Monopoly " money when you have it !

    Feb 17, 2006 5:21:12 PM

    amjf088
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    Reply to: MKW

    Re: 997tt or 997 GT3 or BOTH??? Financial Question

    Well, I'm also in my late thirties and can only dream about buying even one of those cars new.

    I make about $130K, but my wife does not have an income. Although I have just about finished paying off our house, and have saved aggressively for retirement and my son's education, I still figure the best I can really do is a Boxster (or maybe a used Cayman S in a couple of years) - based on net worth.

    At 300K/1.4 million one of those two cars is OK. Certainly we recognize that it is not the best way to use your money, but life has to be enjoyed too.

    Feb 17, 2006 5:44:37 PM

    JimFlat6
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    Reply to: MKW

    Re: 997tt or 997 GT3 or BOTH??? Financial Question

    Sounds like you have never owned a high performance sports car.

    Instead of the latest, fastest and most expensive Porsche(s), why not start out with something a bit more forgiving, used, with a factory warranty at a lower price. Like a 2-3 yo 996 coupe. Both of you please get some experience behind the wheel and get some training because a GT3 or Turbos speed and dynamics are way different from anything you have ever experienced. You would both be in way over your heads
    skill wise to start out with a GT3 and a Turbo.

    What makes you think you can fit all of the inevitable baby gear in any newer 911? You will need at least one normal car. If your wife has friends with babies you will need at least one vehicle with even more room, like a SUV.

    Good luck!

    Feb 17, 2006 6:19:53 PM

    Texas911
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    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: 997tt or 997 GT3 or BOTH??? Financial Question

    Man, looks like you do have to be a millionaire to drive a new Porsche!

    Feb 17, 2006 6:38:49 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: Texas911

    Re: 997tt or 997 GT3 or BOTH??? Financial Question

    Quote:
    Texas911 said:
    Man, looks like you do have to be a millionaire to drive a new Porsche!


    You don't HAVE to be, but it sure helps

    Feb 17, 2006 7:18:54 PM

    sato
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    Posts: 364, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 8, 2005
    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: 997tt or 997 GT3 or BOTH??? Financial Question

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Sounds like you have never owned a high performance sports car.



    If that is true then I withdraw my earlier post. Furthermore, my assumption is that anyone who gets the GT3 at least has done some track work and expects to do a lot more with the GT3.

    Erik, you had better be a top-notch driver or have a good understanding of the driving dynamics of a rear-biased car at the limits for a GT3 to be your first high performance sports car. She may look pretty but that girl would kick your a$$ in a heartbeat.
     
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