Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8 - Page1

Feb 15, 2006 7:07:12 PM

hamilton93: Junior; Loc: North CA, USA; Posts: 138, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 18, 2005

C&D 997S vs. AMV8

Sorry if this is a repeat as i know many of you get the digital version of C&D, but I'm confused.

C&D ranked the AMV8 higher then the 997S (c2) yet the Porsche beat out the AM on all quantitative categories. The AM only won by one point overall (actually a tie if you apply a confidence factor). AM's win was based on the qualitative categories like "gotta have it factor"

I agree the sheet-metal and availability of the AMV8 wow's the crowd, heck I'd love to have one. But in this arms race and the fact I am an avid sports car guy, performance numbers mean more then the touchy-feely categories....Thoughts

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Feb 15, 2006 7:19:14 PM

throt: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 6078, Gallery; Registered on: May 9, 2005; Reply to: hamilton93

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

Thoughts , AMV8 is for the due cruising down the road smoking a pipe its also imo overpriced..Its been put out to kick the 997's arse in performance and it just has not happened . See one the other day , nice but not for me ..

throt..

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Feb 15, 2006 7:23:37 PM

jlr: Junior; Loc: Birmingham, Alabama; Posts: 123, Gallery; Registered on: May 15, 2005; Reply to: hamilton93

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

For less of the touchy feely thing and more of the quantitative performance thing, try the Z06. You had to know someone would say that. If the AMV8 wins the touchy feely categories over the 997, you've got to give them credit. Porsches are, and always have been, the best compromise among sports cars IMO -- really good at everything, maybe best in no one particular category. Give the British credit at least for building cars with character.

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Feb 15, 2006 7:44:20 PM

hamilton93: Junior; Loc: North CA, USA; Posts: 138, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 18, 2005; Reply to: jlr

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

Valid point about the Z06, amazing stats for the money, although there are a lot of negative comments about steering, this itself is tough as you are driving a 505hp rocket, i want to know exactly what's going to happen and hoe the road feels when i turn the whell at 140mph

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Feb 15, 2006 7:59:59 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: hamilton93

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

Quote:
hamilton93 said:
Sorry if this is a repeat as i know many of you get the digital version of C&D, but I'm confused.

C&D ranked the AMV8 higher then the 997S (c2) yet the Porsche beat out the AM on all quantitative categories. The AM only won by one point overall (actually a tie if you apply a confidence factor). AM's win was based on the qualitative categories like "gotta have it factor"

I agree the sheet-metal and availability of the AMV8 wow's the crowd, heck I'd love to have one. But in this arms race and the fact I am an avid sports car guy, performance numbers mean more then the touchy-feely categories....Thoughts

Sounds like C&D has recently attended a 2-day seminar at the Jeremy Clarkson School of Objectivity.

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Feb 15, 2006 8:31:08 PM

tkids: Co-Pilot; Loc: CO. USA. , United States; Posts: 198, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 15, 2005; Reply to: fritz

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

Last Friday I stopped by the AM booth at the Chicago Auto show. When I accidently mention that I had a Pcar on order, they invited me in to take a tour of the car. 1st thing he compared to the 911 is that AM only makes 3000 AMV8s and 30000 997s. I must say it is a nicely built car to the touch from the Handpainted Hood Badge to the things that look metal and glass are actually glass(grille/climate control dials).

Looks like people are marketing and touting this car as the one to get because of its exclusivity, that is fine, but I don't care how many people own a 911. It is all about the ride for me.

I certainly think they are comparing the wrong 997 to the AMV8. If it is to be Performance based comparison use the C2, if it is to be Price related, let's use the the 997TT.

Now with that criteria, I don't think the AMV8 is that great. Way more expensive than the C2 and it gets its A$$ kicked when put up to the TT. IMHO

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Feb 15, 2006 10:19:25 PM

ResB: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Yorkshire, where roads are twisty... , United Kingdom; Posts: 2858, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 19, 2006; Reply to: fritz

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

Quote:
fritz said:
Quote:
hamilton93 said:
Sorry if this is a repeat as i know many of you get the digital version of C&D, but I'm confused.

C&D ranked the AMV8 higher then the 997S (c2) yet the Porsche beat out the AM on all quantitative categories. The AM only won by one point overall (actually a tie if you apply a confidence factor). AM's win was based on the qualitative categories like "gotta have it factor"

I agree the sheet-metal and availability of the AMV8 wow's the crowd, heck I'd love to have one. But in this arms race and the fact I am an avid sports car guy, performance numbers mean more then the touchy-feely categories....Thoughts

Sounds like C&D has recently attended a 2-day seminar at the Jeremy Clarkson School of Objectivity.

Was going to say the same thing. Go to video.google and search for m6 and the video where there is a small test of the 997s, AM Vantage and M6 is there to watch...just listen to the comments at the end.

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Feb 15, 2006 10:32:32 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: ResB

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

Quote:
ResB said:
Quote:
fritz said:
Quote:
hamilton93 said:
Sorry if this is a repeat as i know many of you get the digital version of C&D, but I'm confused.

C&D ranked the AMV8 higher then the 997S (c2) yet the Porsche beat out the AM on all quantitative categories. The AM only won by one point overall (actually a tie if you apply a confidence factor). AM's win was based on the qualitative categories like "gotta have it factor"

I agree the sheet-metal and availability of the AMV8 wow's the crowd, heck I'd love to have one. But in this arms race and the fact I am an avid sports car guy, performance numbers mean more then the touchy-feely categories....Thoughts

Sounds like C&D has recently attended a 2-day seminar at the Jeremy Clarkson School of Objectivity.

Was going to say the same thing. Go to video.google and search for m6 and the video where there is a small test of the 997s, AM Vantage and M6 is there to watch...just listen to the comments at the end.

You mean the comparison test drive on the Isle of Man. I saw and recorded it when it was first transmitted, but that is just one of many prime examples of JC's objective "reporting".

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Feb 15, 2006 10:39:30 PM

throt: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 6078, Gallery; Registered on: May 9, 2005; Reply to: fritz

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

Total humiliation for BM & AM though and they mentioned how good the P's brakes were which were PCCB's it was also running the -20 . And 6 secs over a small distance is awesome . Imagine the big brother TT

.

throt...

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Feb 15, 2006 11:53:51 PM

twin turbo: Junior; Loc: london uk; Posts: 70, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 29, 2005; Reply to: throt

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

AMV8 is hardley any faster than the cayman s, if you read autocars figures. agree with throt well over priced...

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Feb 16, 2006 2:23:23 AM

Flashman: Co-Pilot; Loc: USA North Carolina , United States; Posts: 252, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 30, 2004; Reply to: hamilton93

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

But come on - the AM is at one end of the pretty scale, the 997 somewhere in the middle, and the Z06 at the butt ugly end. As to reliability which in 2006 surely should not be an issue any more, reading reviews of the AM its a total dog (read the March edition of EVO magazine). I know some members of the board here have had problems with their P cars, but thats nothing compared to the AM problems that are dogging the press cars let alone the end consumers.

Agree with a previous post, Porsche make the best compromise of a sports car out there.

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Feb 16, 2006 3:16:14 AM

Targa Tim: Expert; Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada , Canada; Posts: 1475, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 3, 2005; Reply to: Flashman

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

The AMV8 is a great car, but the Car and Driver conclusion is garbage. They basically fix the result by giving 4 more points to AMV8 for being more exclusive (got to own factor); and even more unbelievable, 4 more points to AMV8 for being more fun to drive. I can agree on the exclusive and look factor, but picking a front engine, heavier, slower car which handle worse in every aspects than the 997S as more fun to drive. I think all the C & D test drivers should go back to driving schools to relearn proper sport car driving before they write any more comments...

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Feb 16, 2006 9:57:59 AM

charliepug: Co-Pilot; Loc: Australia; Posts: 227, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 15, 2005; Reply to: tkids

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

Quote:
tkids said:
Last Friday I stopped by the AM booth at the Chicago Auto show. When I accidently mention that I had a Pcar on order, they invited me in to take a tour of the car. 1st thing he compared to the 911 is that AM only makes 3000 AMV8s and 30000 997s. I must say it is a nicely built car to the touch from the Handpainted Hood Badge to the things that look metal and glass are actually glass(grille/climate control dials).

Looks like people are marketing and touting this car as the one to get because of its exclusivity, that is fine, but I don't care how many people own a 911. It is all about the ride for me.

I certainly think they are comparing the wrong 997 to the AMV8. If it is to be Performance based comparison use the C2, if it is to be Price related, let's use the the 997TT.

Now with that criteria, I don't think the AMV8 is that great. Way more expensive than the C2 and it gets its A$$ kicked when put up to the TT. IMHO

I would tell the AMV8 salesman if I wanted exclusivity I'd buy a Bottega croc hanbag instead of Louis Vuttons' ones cos then I could stick my nose up

to others... but I'd rather be one of the 30,000 911 owners and thrilled to be (soon) driving one, than drive an "exclusive" car

. With due respects to AM, I have not test driven one, but I've owned a P-car to realise in my heart that it's the one for me

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Feb 16, 2006 3:05:07 PM

Friscorays: Junior; Loc: TX; Posts: 148, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 20, 2005; Reply to: charliepug

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

Some additional thoughts on the subject in this thread:

http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=186695&an=0&page=4#186695

By the way Targa Tim, should the C and D test drivers who picked the Cayman over the Lotus in the same issue also be required to attend driving school or do they get a pass since the Porsche "won" that particular comparo?

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Feb 16, 2006 9:55:54 PM

Targa Tim: Expert; Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada , Canada; Posts: 1475, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 3, 2005; Reply to: Friscorays

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

Quote:
Friscorays said:
Some additional thoughts on the subject in this thread:

http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=186695&an=0&page=4#186695

By the way Targa Tim, should the C and D test drivers who picked the Cayman over the Lotus in the same issue also be required to attend driving school or do they get a pass since the Porsche "won" that particular comparo?

I know what you mean.

I am not saying if a Porsche doesn't won a comparison then the article is garbage. But with this particular AMV8 vs 997S article, there is just no way that they can claim the AMV8 is the winner by "fixing" the score card. If being exclusive will won a test, then why do they even waste time doing a comparison. Everybody knows 997S will outsell the AMV8 even if they cost the same money. The 30000 vs 3000 number has nothing to do with being exclusive, it is because there are really 30000 buyers for 997 out there. Even if AM has the capability to built 30000 cars, they will not be able to find so many buyers because in reality, the 997 is the better car and that's why we are buying it.

By the way, they also said the valet boy will prefer to park the AMV8 up front instead of 997S. What a stupid and naive comment. Do I buy my dream car to impress the valet boys? I wouldn't even let them get near it for God's sake.

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Feb 16, 2006 10:03:00 PM

john999s: Senior; Loc: Hessen, Germany , Germany; Posts: 630, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2005; Reply to: Targa Tim

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

As far as I can see the only areas where a Vantage has some sort of advantage is that a)they are rare, and b)the styling is undeniably good. In every other measurable way a 997 S out performs it.

The author clearly had a personal preference for the Aston (I don't blame him-its a personal thing) but let personal prejudice get the better of journalistic integrity. Bit like Top Gear's JC really.

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Feb 19, 2006 5:52:59 PM

JAG007: Junior; Loc: London, UK; Posts: 104, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 16, 2005; Reply to: john999s

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

I think the comments are actually not too valid from you guys (ouch!). How many P owners actually drive their cars to anywhere near their limit to state performance is such a significant issue? More likely most of these people can quote their P car statistics...
Now obviously quite a few of us a more dedicated, will be part of forums such as this, and do the Porsche thing for what the car really is. I would like to include myself in this category. The truth is I live in London, UK, where if I am caught speeding, meaning anytime I get into 3rd gear, I get my insurance / police / every mean dog set on me, and in 95% of the time I would also end up in the back of another car anyway!
AM on the other hand, especially the V8 vs DB9, is slick as hell, makes a better noise, has an interior to die for, and is basically the equivalent of bombshell of a girlfriend: we all get married at some point, but we all want certain things in life which do not make quite sense of paper, and can cost us quite a bit of the green ones also!
(and yes I have a 997S and take it on circuits)

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Feb 19, 2006 7:29:47 PM

Targa Tim: Expert; Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada , Canada; Posts: 1475, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 3, 2005; Reply to: JAG007

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

Quote:
JAG007 said:
I think the comments are actually not too valid from you guys (ouch!). How many P owners actually drive their cars to anywhere near their limit to state performance is such a significant issue? More likely most of these people can quote their P car statistics...
Now obviously quite a few of us a more dedicated, will be part of forums such as this, and do the Porsche thing for what the car really is. I would like to include myself in this category. The truth is I live in London, UK, where if I am caught speeding, meaning anytime I get into 3rd gear, I get my insurance / police / every mean dog set on me, and in 95% of the time I would also end up in the back of another car anyway!
AM on the other hand, especially the V8 vs DB9, is slick as hell, makes a better noise, has an interior to die for, and is basically the equivalent of bombshell of a girlfriend: we all get married at some point, but we all want certain things in life which do not make quite sense of paper, and can cost us quite a bit of the green ones also!
(and yes I have a 997S and take it on circuits)

I respectfully disagree with your comment.

The purpose of a car comparison report is to tell the readers which one is a better car after the magazine has done various objective testings, but not which one the author would prefer to own (as we are not interested at all).

If your argument that in real life driving situation, most 997 owners will not push their cars to the limit (this is a very true comment), than you can extrapolate and claim that the AMV8 is a better car and even a bargain compares to the upcoming 997TT (which has almost exactly the same interior as any 997), as even more owners cannot push their TT to its limit on daily driving.

My final conclusion is that being exotic and has a good look and nice interior does not make the AMV8 a better car than 997. Then of course, all cars are toys and we cannot use logic to make car buying decision. But the real fact is that there are 10 times more buyers for 997 than AMV8 and they are not all stupid.

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Feb 20, 2006 3:29:09 PM

JAG007: Junior; Loc: London, UK; Posts: 104, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 16, 2005; Reply to: Targa Tim

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

I also respectfully agree but (apart the beer thing which is very beerfest German!)...
Acutally I did not buy my 997S because I thought it was an inferior product, but I am just stating the fact that most people will "feel" better in an AM V8, at least in the beginning before it breaks down!
Remember, AM charges about $25.000 more than a 997S, not to mention a 997, because they can get away with it!
Before I say anything else, I would buy the 997S even if it was for the same price.

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Feb 21, 2006 1:59:50 AM

Targa Tim: Expert; Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada , Canada; Posts: 1475, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 3, 2005; Reply to: JAG007

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

Hi JAG007,

I'm glad that you will prefer the 997S!

AM always has more expensive cars than Porsche. Their price are closer to Ferrari. But being more expensive doesn't mean that it has to be a better car.

I never dislike the AMV8, I think it is a great car and I will be happy to own one myself. I'm just pissed that the C&D author decided to ignore all the test results and picked a winner based on his own single-minded, biased opinion.

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Feb 25, 2006 9:28:48 PM

birdness: Newbie; Loc: Canada; Posts: 32, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 8, 2005; Reply to: Targa Tim

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

Sport-Auto(French Car Magazine), in their latest issue, did a comparison betweem the Aston AMV8, porsche 997 4S, and the Maserati Gransport. First place honours went to the AMV8, 2nd to Porsche and 3rd to the Gransport. Are we seeing a pattern here. Please don't shoot the messenger!!!

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Feb 25, 2006 9:43:31 PM

throt: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 6078, Gallery; Registered on: May 9, 2005; Reply to: birdness

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

Lol ,, there some blatant biased results coming out , but imo the AMV8 will need all favours it can get ..

throt...

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Feb 25, 2006 10:04:54 PM

bstew: Expert; Loc: NC, USA; Posts: 1797, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 11, 2005; Reply to: hamilton93

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

Quote:
hamilton93 said:
Sorry if this is a repeat as i know many of you get the digital version of C&D, but I'm confused.

C&D ranked the AMV8 higher then the 997S (c2) yet the Porsche beat out the AM on all quantitative categories. The AM only won by one point overall (actually a tie if you apply a confidence factor). AM's win was based on the qualitative categories like "gotta have it factor"

I agree the sheet-metal and availability of the AMV8 wow's the crowd, heck I'd love to have one. But in this arms race and the fact I am an avid sports car guy, performance numbers mean more then the touchy-feely categories....Thoughts

I read the article and it doesn't bother me one bit that the AMV8 beat the 997. The true test is to drive each yourself and then make up your mind. I have never put much stock in what other people say about a car as everyone likes different things. I would hope no one here would buy a 100K car or any one for that matter based on what someone else says

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Feb 26, 2006 12:59:48 AM

stanwan: Junior; Loc: UK; Posts: 56, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 17, 2005; Reply to: bstew

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

I really have no idea what the fuss is about.The author of the article just stated his opinion. Differing opnions are what makes the world an interesting place to be!

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Feb 26, 2006 3:25:45 AM

bstew: Expert; Loc: NC, USA; Posts: 1797, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 11, 2005; Reply to: stanwan

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

Quote:
stanwan said:
I really have no idea what the fuss is about.The author of the article just stated his opinion. Differing opnions are what makes the world an interesting place to be!

I agree

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Feb 26, 2006 3:32:05 AM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: bstew

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

The Aston AMV8 looks dodgy when it comes to both performance and reliability.

Its no quicker and no better handling than a Roush supercharged V8 Mustang and is probably slower on top speed.

Any Aston Martin with a 165mph speed limiter, like the AMV8 has, is no choice of mine.

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Feb 26, 2006 12:32:56 PM

stanwan: Junior; Loc: UK; Posts: 56, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 17, 2005; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
The Aston AMV8 looks dodgy when it comes to both performance and reliability.

Its no quicker and no better handling than a Roush supercharged V8 Mustang and is probably slower on top speed.

Any Aston Martin with a 165mph speed limiter, like the AMV8 has, is no choice of mine.

I really don't know where you are getting your info from? THe AMv8 doesn't have a speed limiter, and it's top speed is 175mph, which is the speed i assume you cruise at regularly!

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Feb 26, 2006 3:16:41 PM

Ziggy: Expert; Loc:; Posts: 1600, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 27, 2004; Reply to: birdness

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

Quote:
birdness said:
Sport-Auto(French Car Magazine), in their latest issue, did a comparison betweem the Aston AMV8, porsche 997 4S, and the Maserati Gransport. First place honours went to the AMV8, 2nd to Porsche and 3rd to the Gransport. Are we seeing a pattern here. Please don't shoot the messenger!!!

Sport-Auto (French) is one of the worst auto magazines currently on sales (I have been subscribing many years and I have read the article). BTW, they compared the AMV8, the Maserati and the 997 4S and the writter Laurent Chevalier said the Porsche is objectively the best car, but he subjectively prefered the Aston.

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Feb 26, 2006 5:00:44 PM

birdness: Newbie; Loc: Canada; Posts: 32, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 8, 2005; Reply to: Ziggy

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

Quote:
Ziggy said:
Quote:
birdness said:
Sport-Auto(French Car Magazine), in their latest issue, did a comparison betweem the Aston AMV8, porsche 997 4S, and the Maserati Gransport. First place honours went to the AMV8, 2nd to Porsche and 3rd to the Gransport. Are we seeing a pattern here. Please don't shoot the messenger!!!

Sport-Auto (French) is one of the worst auto magazines currently on sales (I have been subscribing many years and I have read the article). BTW, they compared the AMV8, the Maserati and the 997 4S and the writter Laurent Chevalier said the Porsche is objectively the best car, but he subjectively prefered the Aston.

I think alot of people may subjectively prefer the AMV8.I can't really blame them. The choice of a car in this price range is a matter as much of the heart as it is of the brain. I think when the heart gets involved, the Aston has an undeniable advantage. Getting a time of 8:03 on the 'Ring also helps.

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Feb 26, 2006 5:18:44 PM

SciFrog: Rennteam VIP; Loc: USA , United States; Posts: 9870, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 15, 2005; Reply to: birdness

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

8:03 with Corsa tires.

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C&D 997S vs. AMV8

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Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

Re: C&D 997S vs. AMV8

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