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    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    CF said:
    There's nothing wrong or inferior with the "NEW" manual gearbox for the 997 Turbo.

    It's the Tiptronic that's been completely redesigned and now offer what's technologically possible for a Tiptronic gearbox, and that just happens to be better than what a manual gearbox has to offer in terms of acceleration numbers at certain speed intervals.

    To me it seems that some of you would prefer if they held back the development of the Tiptronic gearboxes in order to make the manual more competitive.



    Ok then, since you keep mentioning that is all because the Tiptronic that's been completely redesigned then tell us how exactly does the NEW 5-speed torque converter Tip achieves the performance of a 6-speed dual-clucth and betters the performance of the Ferrari and BMW 6-speed secuentials? what has been redesigned? .. that would stop all the hypothesising, so what are you basing your statement on?



    They can redesign as much as they like: The Tip will be slower (compared to manual) between 200kph and top-speed as it has only five gears.



    That seriously ticks me off.
    Another thing, regarding the gearbox: how can it be so weak? The old 996TT gearbox could safely handle the Ruf 590 level (850 Nm) without any problems whatsoever, so what's the deal? What I still don't get is how the Tip gains another 4/10 of a second between 100 and 160 km/h, with a higher weight to power ratio and lower gears.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    First of all, I dont think the Tip will loose the 200-300 sprint.

    Even race or 0.1-0.2 sec win for the Tip.

    0-60 MPH : 3.7/3.4 (Man/Tip/stand) 3.5/3.2 (SportCT)
    0-100 Km/h : 3.9/3.7 (Man/Tip/stand) 3.7/3.5 (SportCT)
    0-160 Km/h : 8.4/7.8 (Man/Tip/stand) 8.0/7.4 (SportCT)
    0-200 Km/h : 12.8/12.2 (Man/Tip/stand) 12.2/11.6 (SportCT)

    0-400 m : 11.8/11.6 (Man/Tip/stand) 11.6/11.4 (SportCT)

    Hockenheim: Tiptronic wins by 0.5-1.5 sec

    Nurburgring : Manual wins by 1-3 sec due to LSD.


    Keep in mind that times posted with SportCT is only estimates by me!!

    Hockenheim and NBR as well.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Great info, any idea on the NBR times (the absolute number?)

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Maybe I have missed a couple of posts but I still do not understand of why Tiptr. is faster. Specially from standstill. Unless you have a "launch" function tip starts with "zero" rpm's whereas manual you can let go much higher. wrong ????

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Quote:
    CF said:
    First of all, I dont think the Tip will loose the 200-300 sprint.

    Even race or 0.1-0.2 sec win for the Tip.

    0-60 MPH : 3.7/3.4 (Man/Tip/stand) 3.5/3.2 (SportCT)
    0-100 Km/h : 3.9/3.7 (Man/Tip/stand) 3.7/3.5 (SportCT)
    0-160 Km/h : 8.4/7.8 (Man/Tip/stand) 8.0/7.4 (SportCT)
    0-200 Km/h : 12.8/12.2 (Man/Tip/stand) 12.2/11.6 (SportCT)

    0-400 m : 11.8/11.6 (Man/Tip/stand) 11.6/11.4 (SportCT)

    Hockenheim: Tiptronic wins by 0.5-1.5 sec

    Nurburgring : Manual wins by 1-3 sec due to LSD.


    Keep in mind that times posted with SportCT is only estimates by me!!

    Hockenheim and NBR as well.



    Well, the Tip gains .2 secs 0-100kph and another .4 secs (so .6 in total) up to 160kph.

    Between 160kph and 200kph Tip and manual are equally quick...

    That's one reason why I expect the Tip to be slower between 200kph and top-speed. The other reason is: at speeds above 200kph the Tip version with only 5 gears accelerates (on average) at lower revs and lower hp than the manual version with 6 gears.

    As a potential customer you face the dilemma: Do I want to be quick 0-200 or 200-300. What a bad choice to make for a sports car... In particular, if you can use the entire speed range (on a German AB, for example).

    I really hope for a short-term introduction of PDK and powerkit

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    CF said:
    First of all, I dont think the Tip will loose the 200-300 sprint.

    Even race or 0.1-0.2 sec win for the Tip.

    0-60 MPH : 3.7/3.4 (Man/Tip/stand) 3.5/3.2 (SportCT)
    0-100 Km/h : 3.9/3.7 (Man/Tip/stand) 3.7/3.5 (SportCT)
    0-160 Km/h : 8.4/7.8 (Man/Tip/stand) 8.0/7.4 (SportCT)
    0-200 Km/h : 12.8/12.2 (Man/Tip/stand) 12.2/11.6 (SportCT)

    0-400 m : 11.8/11.6 (Man/Tip/stand) 11.6/11.4 (SportCT)

    Hockenheim: Tiptronic wins by 0.5-1.5 sec

    Nurburgring : Manual wins by 1-3 sec due to LSD.


    Keep in mind that times posted with SportCT is only estimates by me!!

    Hockenheim and NBR as well.



    Well, the Tip gains .2 secs 0-100kph and another .4 secs (so .6 in total) up to 160kph.

    Between 160kph and 200kph Tip and manual are equally quick...

    That's one reason why I expect the Tip to be slower between 200kph and top-speed. The other reason is: at speeds above 200kph the Tip version with only 5 gears accelerates (on average) at lower revs and lower hp than the manual version with 6 gears.

    As a potential customer you face the dilemma: Do I want to be quick 0-200 or 200-300. What a bad choice to make for a sports car... In particular, if you can use the entire speed range (on a German AB, for example).

    I really hope for a short-term introduction of PDK and powerkit



    True. I'd live a lot easier if the auto tranny I drove were a 6-speed PDK (although I wonder how the manual will perform with the powerkit).

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    They can redesign as much as they like: The Tip will be slower (compared to manual) between 200kph and top-speed as it has only five gears.



    Well, it depends...do you really think the top speed of 310 kph is limited by the rev limiter?
    Also don't forget that in higher speed ranges, the type of transmission doesn't really count anymore.
    We also don't know how Porsche programmed the overboost in combination with the Tiptronic.
    There are so many things we don't know yet, all we can do is to speculate. You may be right though.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Quote:
    CF said:
    0-60 MPH : 3.7/3.4 (Man/Tip)
    0-100 Km/h : 3.9/3.7 (Man/Tip)
    0-160 Km/h : 8.4/7.8 (Man/Tip)
    0-200 Km/h : 12.8/12.2 (Man/Tip)

    0-400 m : 11.8/11.6 (Man/Tip)

    Top Speed : 310 Km/h (Man/Tip)



    I look in my archive and found a test from 1998 993 Turbo R (Ruf) (490 HP)

    0-100 Km/h : 3,6
    0-160 Km/h : 7,8
    0-200 Km/h : 11,8

    Top Speed 329 km/h

    Judge yourself....we are in 2006 now.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    From the Porsche website .


    996 Turbo


    Top speed: 305 km/h (Tiptronic S 298 km/h)


    0-100 km/h: 4,2 s (Tiptronic S 4,8 s)
    0-160 km/h: 9,3 s (Tiptronic S 10,4 s)

    80-120 km/h 4,8 s/5.Gear (Tiptronic S 5,5 s/4.Gear)


    GT3RS/GT3

    Top speed: 306 km/h (190 mph)

    0-100 km/h: 4.4/4.5 s
    0-200 km/h: 14.0/14.3 s

    80-120 km/h 6.4/6.5 s (5th gear)



    996 Turbo S/X50



    Top speed 307 km/h (Tiptronic S 300 km/h)

    0-100 km/h: 4.2 s (Tiptronic S 4.5 s)
    0-160 km/h: 9.0 s (Tiptronic S 9.7 s)

    80-120 km/h 4.9 s/5.gear (Tiptronic S 5.6 s/4th Gear)



    996 GT2 MKII


    Top speed 319 km/h

    0-100 km/h: 4.0 s
    0-160 km/h: 8.3 s

    80-120 km/h 4.3 s (5th gear)



    996 GT MKI


    Top speed 316 km/h

    0-100 km/h: 4.1 s
    0-160 km/h: 8.5 s
    0-200 km/h: 13.1 s

    80-120 km/h 4.7 s (5th gear)



    997 Turbo - Standard 620 Nm without "Powerkit 680 Nm"


    Top speed 310 km/h

    0-100 km/h: 3.9 s (Tiptronic S 3.7 s)
    0-160 km/h: 8.4 s (Tiptronic S 7.8 s)
    0-200 km/h: 12.8 s (Tiptronic S 12.2 s)

    80-120 km/h 3.8 s/5.gear (Tiptronic S 3.5 s/4th gear)




    997 GT3


    Top speed 310 km/h


    0-100 km/h: 4.3 s
    0-160 km/h: 8.7 s

    80-120 km/h 6.2 s (5th gear)

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Here's another question about the 0-60mph or 0-100kmph times:

    How are they launching the cars? Is the manual reved to max torque and launched? Can you even do this with a tiptronic? If they do with the manual, how is it being beat by the tip!! I believe it may be an issue of electronics and traction...

    I think we're going to have to wait for some independent car tests...

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Quote:
    CF said:
    From the Porsche website .


    996 Turbo


    Top speed: 305 km/h (Tiptronic S 298 km/h)


    0-100 km/h: 4,2 s (Tiptronic S 4,8 s)
    0-160 km/h: 9,3 s (Tiptronic S 10,4 s)

    80-120 km/h 4,8 s/5.Gear (Tiptronic S 5,5 s/4.Gear)


    GT3RS/GT3

    Top speed: 306 km/h (190 mph)

    0-100 km/h: 4.4/4.5 s
    0-200 km/h: 14.0/14.3 s

    80-120 km/h 6.4/6.5 s (5th gear)



    996 Turbo S/X50



    Top speed 307 km/h (Tiptronic S 300 km/h)

    0-100 km/h: 4.2 s (Tiptronic S 4.5 s)
    0-160 km/h: 9.0 s (Tiptronic S 9.7 s)

    80-120 km/h 4.9 s/5.gear (Tiptronic S 5.6 s/4th Gear)



    996 GT2 MKII


    Top speed 319 km/h

    0-100 km/h: 4.0 s
    0-160 km/h: 8.3 s

    80-120 km/h 4.3 s (5th gear)



    996 GT MKI


    Top speed 316 km/h

    0-100 km/h: 4.1 s
    0-160 km/h: 8.5 s
    0-200 km/h: 13.1 s

    80-120 km/h 4.7 s (5th gear)



    997 Turbo - Standard 620 Nm without "Powerkit 680 Nm"


    Top speed 310 km/h

    0-100 km/h: 3.9 s (Tiptronic S 3.7 s)
    0-160 km/h: 8.4 s (Tiptronic S 7.8 s)
    0-200 km/h: 12.8 s (Tiptronic S 12.2 s)

    80-120 km/h 3.8 s/5.gear (Tiptronic S 3.5 s/4th gear)




    997 GT3


    Top speed 310 km/h


    0-100 km/h: 4.3 s
    0-160 km/h: 8.7 s

    80-120 km/h 6.2 s (5th gear)



    Very interesting data, CF

    Given one rarely ever launches from 0 KPH on either AB/when coming out of a curve, would argue the 80-300KPH metrics are prob most relevant, rather than any 0-xxx metrics...

    My only major complaint re: 996TTS is the turbo lag seen in the 70-120MPH bursts often used on various relevant SF fwys....a disappointing lag for those accustomed to SL55/65's near-instantaneous response in that speed band....hopefully, 997TT will finally have solved the turbo lag issue....

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Carlos, I have two theories:

    1) The manual setup is detuned because the manual might not be able to handle the increase in torque.

    2) Porsche has changed the way they perform their acceleration tests. In this case, we need the independent testing from car mags and hopefully, they will choose both gearboxes to compare.



    3) Is it possible that the choice of gear ratios for the tip is better for acceleration than that chosen for the manual?

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    They can redesign as much as they like: The Tip will be slower (compared to manual) between 200kph and top-speed as it has only five gears.



    Well, it depends...do you really think the top speed of 310 kph is limited by the rev limiter?
    Also don't forget that in higher speed ranges, the type of transmission doesn't really count anymore.
    We also don't know how Porsche programmed the overboost in combination with the Tiptronic.
    There are so many things we don't know yet, all we can do is to speculate. You may be right though.



    My assumption is that the gear ratio of the manual 997TT has been adjusted so that the car reaches max revs at around 310kph. Does this assumption make sense? At least the assumption was true in case of 996TT and 996TTS.

    If you agree with my assumption you also agree that the manual 997TT will be faster than the tip version in the speed range between 200kph and top speed: The tip version has a total of 5 gears only to cover the same speed range (200-310kph). This (necessarily) implies that the manual version has a better gear ratio above 200kph. Am I wrong here?

    The manual version will be quicker than the tip version

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    They can redesign as much as they like: The Tip will be slower (compared to manual) between 200kph and top-speed as it has only five gears.



    Well, it depends...do you really think the top speed of 310 kph is limited by the rev limiter?
    Also don't forget that in higher speed ranges, the type of transmission doesn't really count anymore.
    We also don't know how Porsche programmed the overboost in combination with the Tiptronic.
    There are so many things we don't know yet, all we can do is to speculate. You may be right though.



    My assumption is that the gear ratio of the manual 997TT has been adjusted so that the car reaches max revs at around 310kph. Does this assumption make sense? At least the assumption was true in case of 996TT and 996TTS.

    If you agree with my assumption you also agree that the manual 997TT will be faster than the tip version in the speed range between 200kph and top speed: The tip version has a total of 5 gears only to cover the same speed range (200-310kph). This (necessarily) implies that the manual version has a better gear ratio above 200kph. Am I wrong here?

    The manual version will be quicker than the tip version



    BTW: You probably realise that a major factor making the 996TTS quicker than the 996TT at high speeds was the shorter gear ratio... Of course, the additional 30hp did not hurt either. But gear ratios are quite important.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    so what are the only cars on the road that can take on the 997TT Tiptronic from 0-62 ???

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Enzo, Veyron, Kit Cars...

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Ariel atom

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Ferrari 599GTB

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Quote:
    john999s said:
    Ferrari 599GTB



    Not correct, 0-60 in 3.6, sorry this is even slower than the tip WITHOUT overboost.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    I thought he said 'take-on'. He will lose but he can take it on

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    OK SciFrog try this. Mclaren F1.


    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance


    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Quote:
    john999s said:




    Lol

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Quote:
    BD 997 said:
    so what are the only cars on the road that can take on the 997TT Tiptronic from 0-62 ???



    The problem is: You can buy a manual 997TT and know that the tip version is faster up to 200kph.

    Or you can buy the tip version and know that the manual is faster above 200kph.

    As I consider this kind of choice very unsatisfactory I will not buy a 997TT

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    BD 997 said:
    so what are the only cars on the road that can take on the 997TT Tiptronic from 0-62 ???



    The problem is: You can buy a manual 997TT and know that the tip version is faster up to 200kph.

    Or you can buy the tip version and know that the manual is faster above 200kph.

    As I consider this kind of choice very unsatisfactory I will not buy a 997TT



    So the only thing we can do is wait for the PDK... But then, what happens if I want to tune it to 600 HP? Does the gearbox fall apart?

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    BD 997 said:
    so what are the only cars on the road that can take on the 997TT Tiptronic from 0-62 ???



    The problem is: You can buy a manual 997TT and know that the tip version is faster up to 200kph.

    Or you can buy the tip version and know that the manual is faster above 200kph.

    As I consider this kind of choice very unsatisfactory I will not buy a 997TT


    I'd like to hear which car you'll buy to be faster than a manual 997TT

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Quote:
    brunner said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    BD 997 said:
    so what are the only cars on the road that can take on the 997TT Tiptronic from 0-62 ???



    The problem is: You can buy a manual 997TT and know that the tip version is faster up to 200kph.

    Or you can buy the tip version and know that the manual is faster above 200kph.

    As I consider this kind of choice very unsatisfactory I will not buy a 997TT


    I'd like to hear which car you'll buy to be faster than a manual 997TT



    Right now, I consider the 599GTB and the Murcielago.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Mksgr What do you drive now?

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    I cant wait till Jeremy Clarkson gets behind the wheel... lets see what he has to say.

     
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