Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you? - Page1

Feb 15, 2006 10:11:23 AM

Georges G. Hayek: Senior; Loc: Beirut , Lebanon; Posts: 650, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 1, 2006

I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

I have visited the Official Porsche Site and checked the 997 turbo section. I can figure out that a "S" version is very probable. (Other than the production of the 996 Carrera turbo S) One of the things that had pulled my attention was the Tailpipes similar to the Carrera version... So a "S" version might come out with those dual tailpipes... What do you folks think about it?

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Feb 15, 2006 11:56:55 AM

Moogle: Rennteam Master; Loc: Bay Area , United States; Posts: 5019, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 9, 2003; Reply to: Georges G. Hayek

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

There is no doubt in my mind that an S is coming out. But they will be staggered awhile.

release schedule?

probably the cabriolet will come out in 6 months,
then perhaps 6-12 months after the S coupe will come out
and 6 months after THAT, the S Cab will be released.

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Feb 15, 2006 1:42:29 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59581, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Georges G. Hayek

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Guys, a Turbo S is indeed on the horizon...in two years maybe.

I don't know what you've seen on the Porsche website, I didn't see any twin tail pipe (maybe you can give us a hint WHERE you saw it) but I would like to share with you two upcoming products from Porsche: a first time premiere for a Turbo...the turbo sport exhaust system and of course...the long awaited "infamous" powerkit. Both products will be available sooner or later.

Expect the 997 Turbo Cabriolet for next spring...IF the success of the 997 Turbo Coupe doesn't delay it's production. After the Cabriolet will be introduced, the powerkit should be on the schedule. And here's the catch: the powerkit could be available only with PDK together. Some sort of turbo performance package. This is only a rumor, so please take it with a grain of salt. There are lots of rumors floating around right now.

So indeed, the Turbo S is coming. But looking at the spectacular Tiptronic performance figure, I doubt that there is a "need" (from a marketing point of view) for a Turbo S right now. Believe it or not but I heard that in some countries, the Turbo is already sold out for the rest of the year. And it won't get better as soon as the first cars actually hit the streets. So here's my prediction: it will be very difficult to get a 997 Turbo this year and in the first half of next year if you're not already somewhere on a dealer's list. Of course some cars will be available for a premium but I should warn you: as soon as the big hype is over, the cars will be widely available. Porsche isn't the type of company to create an artificial shortage of cars, if there is demand, enough cars will be build to satisfy all potential customers.

So yes, a Turbo S is coming. But don't expect it to hit the markets before 2008. It may even come later. If people want to believe something else, well, I can't do anything about it. But there are other Porsche models too to be released over the next 24 months, the Turbo S has not top priority now.

Think about the 997 GT3, Targa, Turbo Cabriolet, the Cayenne facelift and hear hear, a possible smaller Cayenne Sport version with less weight, a less sophisticated AWD and slightly less power than it's big brothers but very likely much better handling and straight line performance.
And of course there is room for a 997 GT2 too...BEFORE the 997 Turbo S shows up.

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Feb 15, 2006 1:48:57 PM

john999s: Senior; Loc: Hessen, Germany , Germany; Posts: 630, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2005; Reply to: RC

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Even if I put the GBP10,000 deposit down my dealer says he must have, and assuming I can pass the 'vetting' I'm number 7 or 8 so far and he won't guarantee me a car this year....

I think the rest of the UK is the same. And for an S? I'd be surprised if I would see one for me before until late next year if at all. My dealer says that they are going to keep numbers lower than the 996TT. We shall see.

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Feb 15, 2006 3:19:01 PM

sdy284: Expert; Loc: Wisconsin, USA; Posts: 1348, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 7, 2005; Reply to: RC

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Quote:
RC said:
Guys, a Turbo S is indeed on the horizon...in two years maybe. I don't know what you've seen on the Porsche website, I didn't see any twin tail pipe (maybe you can give us a hint WHERE you saw it) but I would like to share with you two upcoming products from Porsche: a first time premiere for a Turbo...the turbo sport exhaust system and of course...the long awaited "infamous" powerkit. Both products will be available sooner or later.

Expect the 997 Turbo Cabriolet for next spring...IF the success of the 997 Turbo Coupe doesn't delay it's production. After the Cabriolet will be introduced, the powerkit should be on the schedule. And here's the catch: the powerkit could be available only with PDK together. Some sort of turbo performance package. This is only a rumor, so please take it with a grain of salt. There are lots of rumors floating around right now.

So indeed, the Turbo S is coming. But looking at the spectacular Tiptronic performance figure, I doubt that there is a "need" (from a marketing point of view) for a Turbo S right now. Believe it or not but I heard that in some countries, the Turbo is already sold out for the rest of the year. And it won't get better as soon as the first cars actually hit the streets. So here's my prediction: it will be very difficult to get a 997 Turbo this year and in the first half of next year if you're not already somewhere on a dealer's list. Of course some cars will be available for a premium but I should warn you: as soon as the big hype is over, the cars will be widely available. Porsche isn't the type of company to create an artificial shortage of cars, if there is demand, enough cars will be build to satisfy all potential customers.

So yes, a Turbo S is coming. But don't expect it to hit the markets before 2008. It may even come later. If people want to believe something else, well, I can't do anything about it. But there are other Porsche models too to be released over the next 24 months, the Turbo S has not top priority now. Think about the 997 GT3, Targa, Turbo Cabriolet, the Cayenne facelift and hear hear, a possible smaller Cayenne Sport version with less weight, a less sophisticated AWD and slightly less power than it's big brothers but very likely much better handling and straight line performance.
And of course there is room for a 997 GT2 too...BEFORE the 997 Turbo S shows up.

RC he's not saying he SAW a twin tail pipe. He's saying that since the "base" turbo has tailpipes similar to the base carrera. That maybe the Turbo S when it debuts will have twin pipes. He's just making a guess thats all

And i must say, i totally agree with him about the tailpipes. they are far to similar to a base carrera's

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Feb 15, 2006 8:22:45 PM

twinturbo001: Junior; Loc: CA; Posts: 103, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 29, 2006; Reply to: sdy284

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

If the new 997 TT is as popular as I think it will be then there will no rush by Porsche to bring the upgraded X50 package. How long did it take Porsche to add the X50(S) to the 996 TT?? Wasn't it about 3 years? Who on this forum can tell me how much real difference there was in power between the stock 996TT and the X50 996TT, wasn't it only 30 HP? If they come with a X50 for the 997 how much power will it add?

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Feb 15, 2006 8:42:08 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: twinturbo001

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Quote:
twinturbo001 said:
If the new 997 TT is as popular as I think it will be then there will no rush by Porsche to bring the upgraded X50 package. How long did it take Porsche to add the X50(S) to the 996 TT?? Wasn't it about 3 years? Who on this forum can tell me how much real difference there was in power between the stock 996TT and the X50 996TT, wasn't it only 30 HP? If they come with a X50 for the 997 how much power will it add?

The X50 reduced the 0-200 km/h time by almost 2 seconds (as fast as a 997TT manual) and the difference really became apparent at speeds over 200 km/h.

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Feb 15, 2006 10:05:10 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59581, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Crash

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Quote:
Crash said:
The X50 reduced the 0-200 km/h time by almost 2 seconds (as fast as a 997TT manual) and the difference really became apparent at speeds over 200 km/h.

Factory claim is actually around 1 second. Some X50 cars did 0-125 mph (200 kph) in up to 12.8 seconds but so did newer "standard" Turbos do under 14 seconds (to be precise in the 13.8-13.9 seconds range). So there is a one second difference, this is actually always the advantage of the powerkit over the standard car.

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Feb 15, 2006 10:23:35 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Quote:
RC said:
Quote:
Crash said:
The X50 reduced the 0-200 km/h time by almost 2 seconds (as fast as a 997TT manual) and the difference really became apparent at speeds over 200 km/h.

Factory claim is actually around 1 second. Some X50 cars did 0-125 mph (200 kph) in up to 12.8 seconds but so did newer "standard" Turbos do under 14 seconds (to be precise in the 13.8-13.9 seconds range). So there is a one second difference, this is actually always the advantage of the powerkit over the standard car.

Yes, you're right. My bad

.

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Feb 15, 2006 11:45:30 PM

Paul S in TX: Co-Pilot; Loc:; Posts: 259, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 20, 2002; Reply to: twinturbo001

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Quote:
twinturbo001 said:
If the new 997 TT is as popular as I think it will be then there will no rush by Porsche to bring the upgraded X50 package. How long did it take Porsche to add the X50(S) to the 996 TT?? Wasn't it about 3 years? Who on this forum can tell me how much real difference there was in power between the stock 996TT and the X50 996TT, wasn't it only 30 HP? If they come with a X50 for the 997 how much power will it add?

X50 started with the 02 model year for the 996 TT but it was somewhat in short supply that year; more plentiful with the 03's.

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Feb 16, 2006 12:28:21 AM

twinturbo001: Junior; Loc: CA; Posts: 103, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 29, 2006; Reply to: Paul S in TX

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

So what your saying is the X50 package doesn't really help Quarter mile or 0-60 times?

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Feb 16, 2006 3:01:58 AM

TT Gasman: Co-Pilot; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 241, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 18, 2002; Reply to: twinturbo001

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Should work out just about right for me, I plan to buy in about 18 months and by then the hype will be redirected to the S/Cab variants. That way I can get a good deal on a base TT with floor mats.

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Feb 16, 2006 4:27:28 PM

Oxonian: Pilot; Loc: Jeddah, Saudi Arabia; Posts: 488, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 28, 2005; Reply to: TT Gasman

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

I bet you that the TTS will have the following:

1) PDK
2) 3.8 L engine
3) 530 bhp
4) 0-60 in 3.2 sec or less

The TTS, IMHO, will redefine the industry. It will be the ultimate everyday supercar. Not even Ferrari will get close to the TTS until year 2010.

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Feb 16, 2006 4:36:26 PM

SoCal Alan: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Orange County , United States; Posts: 7268, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 6, 2004; Reply to: Oxonian

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Quote:
Oxonian said:
I bet you that the TTS will have the following:

1) PDK
2) 3.8 L engine
3) 530 bhp
4) 0-60 in 3.2 sec or less

The TTS, IMHO, will redefine the industry. It will be the ultimate everyday supercar. Not even Ferrari will get close to the TTS until year 2010.

That'll be sweet.

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Feb 16, 2006 4:48:32 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59581, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Oxonian

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Quote:
Oxonian said:
I bet you that the TTS will have the following:

1) PDK
2) 3.8 L engine
3) 530 bhp
4) 0-60 in 3.2 sec or less

The TTS, IMHO, will redefine the industry. It will be the ultimate everyday supercar. Not even Ferrari will get close to the TTS until year 2010.

Like I said in a previous post, I don't think there is much room for 0-60 mph acceleration time improvement. Maybe 0.1 seconds...

From 0-125 mph, the difference will be like always around 1.5 seconds.
Of course PDK will be available in two years but I'm not sure about your power claim. 3.8 l engine displacement? For what purpose? More torque?

I think Porsche stays with 3.6 l, even on the Turbo S. Power? Well, 50 HP over the standard Turbo? I doubt it again. I think 520 at max are very likely, 510 HP for the powerkit. There has to be some room for a 997 GT2 too...if it comes.

I don't know why people always compare Ferrari to Porsche, especially since in certain countries, Ferrari cars are a substantial amount of money more expensive than Porsche cars.

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Feb 16, 2006 4:54:07 PM

CF: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Florida , United States; Posts: 1113, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 30, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

You WILL be able to order a Powerkit today for your 997 Turbo, and at a substantially lower price than before I might add.

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Feb 16, 2006 5:20:38 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Quote:
RC said: 3.8 l engine displacement? For what purpose? More torque? I think Porsche stays with 3.6 l, even on the Turbo S.

The reason for more displacement in a Turbo motor is not just for the additional peak power and torque, but more displacement will make it more responsive to the throttle before the full boost is reached. It's one more way (with VTG) to make the throttle response closer to non-turbo motor at lower rpms...

Since the 997TT is relatively low-revving motor (6,600 rpm max), it makes more displacement more attractive. It would be more challenging to increase the displacement of the GT3 where the pistons are already moving so fast (8,400 rpm)...

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Feb 16, 2006 5:38:10 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: CF

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Quote:
CF said:
You WILL be able to order a Powerkit today for your 997 Turbo, and at a substantially lower price than before I might add.

Sweet

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Feb 16, 2006 5:56:45 PM

SoCal Alan: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Orange County , United States; Posts: 7268, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 6, 2004; Reply to: CF

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Quote:
CF said:
You WILL be able to order a Powerkit today for your 997 Turbo, and at a substantially lower price than before I might add.

Any more details, CF? Hints, or rumours?

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Feb 16, 2006 6:17:01 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: SoCal Alan

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Quote:
SoCal Alan said:
Quote:
CF said:
You WILL be able to order a Powerkit today for your 997 Turbo, and at a substantially lower price than before I might add.

Any more details, CF? Hints, or rumours?

I think he is talking nonsense again: He is probably just referring to the overboost option...

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Feb 16, 2006 7:02:01 PM

SoCal Alan: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Orange County , United States; Posts: 7268, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 6, 2004; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Quote:
MKSGR said:
Quote:
SoCal Alan said:
Quote:
CF said:
You WILL be able to order a Powerkit today for your 997 Turbo, and at a substantially lower price than before I might add.

Any more details, CF? Hints, or rumours?

I think he is talking nonsense again: He is probably just referring to the overboost option...

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Feb 16, 2006 7:19:51 PM

W8MM: Rennteam Master; Loc: Cincinnati, OH , United States; Posts: 3993, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 8, 2003; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Quote:
MKSGR said:I think he is talking nonsense again: He is probably just referring to the overboost option...

Why is it nonsense?

I think it's very clever of Porsche to configure the Sport Chrono package as the "power kit" option.

Now, instead of an "S" following the Turbo script on the deck lid, one needs to watch for the "dash wart" to know how special a Turbo might be.

After the word gets around about the wart-equipped Turbos being really fast, the street value of all dash warts on any 997 will be on the rise from association effects.

The overboost option is way more usable for USA customers than the "S" (X50) motor, anyway. The 6-speed versions of the X50 aren't any faster than the normal car in typical street encounters. In some cases, the X50's turbo lag makes it slower for low-speed street racing than the standard issue motor. Only Tiptronic X50 (or Turbo S) setups actually benefit accelleration below 100 MPH.

A 997TT Tiptronic w/dash-wart seems like the uber-street racer to me. I'd take over-boost over more turbo lag any day.

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Feb 16, 2006 7:49:16 PM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: W8MM

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

I wish that the 997TT's redline was over 7200 instead of
6600.

6600 rpms is pretty "humble" by todays supercar engine
standards, high torque or not.

Its great accelleration numbers aside, more revs would make it more fun to drive on a daily basis if you cant fully use
the lspeeds in the ast two or 3 gears anyway.

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Feb 16, 2006 7:54:50 PM

throt: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 6078, Gallery; Registered on: May 9, 2005; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

This is where the GT3 comes good ...

throt..

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Feb 16, 2006 8:03:07 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
I wish that the 997TT's redline was over 7200 instead of
6600.

6600 rpms is pretty "humble" by todays supercar engine
standards, high torque or not.

Turbocharged engines just don't work well at the high revs that NA engines can run at.

Even the small capacity (1.5 liter) turbocharged Formula 1 engines of the mid-80s would only run to about 13,000 rpm, whilst the 3 liter NA engines which followed them didn't take long to get up to 18,000 rpm +.

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Feb 16, 2006 8:03:12 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: W8MM

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Quote:
W8MM said:
Quote:
MKSGR said:I think he is talking nonsense again: He is probably just referring to the overboost option...

Why is it nonsense?

I think it's very clever of Porsche to configure the Sport Chrono package as the "power kit" option.

Now, instead of an "S" following the Turbo script on the deck lid, one needs to watch for the "dash wart" to know how special a Turbo might be.

After the word gets around about the wart-equipped Turbos being really fast, the street value of all dash warts on any 997 will be on the rise from association effects.

The overboost option is way more usable for USA customers than the "S" (X50) motor, anyway. The 6-speed versions of the X50 aren't any faster than the normal car in typical street encounters. In some cases, the X50's turbo lag makes it slower for low-speed street racing than the standard issue motor. Only Tiptronic X50 (or Turbo S) setups actually benefit accelleration below 100 MPH.

A 997TT Tiptronic w/dash-wart seems like the uber-street racer to me. I'd take over-boost over more turbo lag any day.

The overboost feature is definitively no powerkit. If they should ever sell it like that they are aiming at ignorant buyers.

"Nonsense" is referring to CFs "joke" regarding the misprinted tip and manual times. I did not consider this joke funny at all given the bad news regarding the 997TT.

US customers do not "need" a TT by definition. Serious driving is impossible in the US (except on a track)...

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Feb 16, 2006 8:13:40 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
I wish that the 997TT's redline was over 7200 instead of
6600.

6600 rpms is pretty "humble" by todays supercar engine
standards, high torque or not.

Its great accelleration numbers aside, more revs would make it more fun to drive on a daily basis if you cant fully use
the lspeeds in the ast two or 3 gears anyway.

The other nice advantage of a high redline is that it gives you a huge advantage in gearing. High revs allow for lower and closer gear ratios which USUALLY allow for much better acceleration. But, since the TT has the overboost only below 4k revs, "better" gearing might actually make it slower...

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Feb 16, 2006 8:16:49 PM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: fritz

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Fritz, so true. In fact its great that Porsche has a 6600 rpm redline on the 997TT.

Its just that sometimes you want to have it all - high revs, high torque and high hp.

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Feb 16, 2006 8:19:52 PM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Will the new 997TT be a likely industry award candidate for most torque per cc's of displacement for a gasolene engine?

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Feb 16, 2006 8:28:51 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Fritz, so true. In fact its great that Porsche has a 6600 rpm redline on the 997TT.

Its just that sometimes you want to have it all - high revs, high torque and high hp.

And best of all: low weight.......

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Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

Re: I feel a 997 turbo "S" in the horizon... Do you?

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