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Feb 14, 2006 8:39:24 PM
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Nick_Athens
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- Reply to: Bennett
Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?
Quote:
Bennett said:
WHY DO YOU ONLY CARE ABOUT 0-60 AND HORSEPOWER FIGURES? Seriously, I never expected this from you, RC, of all people. I'm sorry to say this but your post is just whinny and ridiculous. Look at what you're saying. You're complaining about a car that no one has driven.
Why don't you go buy a dragster instead of a sports car? Sports cars are about more than straight line performance and HP figures. Seriously stop complaining about why the car doesn't have more than 500hp. It's so shallow and lame. Do you realize that 510hp is merely 6% more hp than 480hp? That is nothing. I seriously doubt you can tell the difference when we're talking about this much power.
Your whole Tiptronic argument is just PAINFUL. You're worried about a school boy or an old lady beating you in a straight line? Be reasonable here. Do you live at the drag strip? Do you care that much about straight line acceleration that you're willing to buy something that you despise just incase an old lady in a Triptronic Turbo pulls up to race you at a stop light? You're willing to sacrifice driver involvement (manual transmission) for quicker straight line acceleration. Your post seriously hurts to read. Did you actually write this? .3 seconds slower from 0-60 is nothing unless you live by a stop watch.
You're disappointed that the Turbo in manual is basically equal to the Ferrari F430? What are you talking about? The F430 is an amazing car. For one minute, don't look at the badge. The F430 is a masterpiece and it costs way more than a Turbo. You should be happy that the Turbo can keep up with such a car. How can you complain when the new Turbo is better in every regard over the last Turbo? I think you had unrealistic expectations for this car. It's a 911 Turbo, not a Bugatti Veryon. This car will keep up with almost any supercar you can find and it only costs 120k US. It doesn't get much better than that, except maybe the Z06.
You make some BIG mistakes.... I dont know how much experience you have with sport cars...but
First 0-100km the tiptronic vs manual doesnt have ONLY 0.3sec difference... and this because the famous OLD LADY can make this time anytime... with the manual you have to make the PERFECT start in order to achieve it... and something more, the EVEN WORSE is not the 0-100 BUT THE 0-200km where the old lady with the coffee on the table will have passed you more than 3 cars!!
Lets forget about this now if you buy the tiptronic, you are going to loose all the FUN of your car...
On the other hand if you buy the manual you are going to have a very big problem AGAIN (first from the old lady with the coffee and secondly from all the F430 AND from all the 996 Turbos which 80% of them are tuned!!)
we dont know yet if you can easily tune the 997tt... (which rumors say that you cant)
and the worse is that you will have paid and 190.000 euros... (here in Greece that is the price for 997tt)
Feb 14, 2006 8:52:39 PM
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CF
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- Loc: Florida , United States
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- Reply to: Nick_Athens
Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?
I was so puzzled about this Tiptronic so I made some calls and got this Info.
Posted times ARE in fact reversed!
Once again,THE POSTED ACCELERATION TIMES has mistakingly been reversed when published on the Porsche website and in the info sent out to prospective customers!
Order has been restored
It should read 0-100: 3,7 manual and 3.9 Tip
0-200: 12.2 manual and 12.8 Tip!!!
Posted times ARE in fact reversed!
Once again,THE POSTED ACCELERATION TIMES has mistakingly been reversed when published on the Porsche website and in the info sent out to prospective customers!
Order has been restored
It should read 0-100: 3,7 manual and 3.9 Tip
0-200: 12.2 manual and 12.8 Tip!!!
Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?
Hahahahaha ,,
Absolutely hilarious , imagine it an old granny in her tip tt at the red stop light hanging out of the window asking you ""sunny fancy a burn up"" , you nod yes nervously..Then GREEN shes off your stick shifting barely using the clutch and stillll she slightly drifts away ,,,, along with one hand out of her window giving you the one finger exercise ,, hmmmmm ""what a babe""
throt..
Absolutely hilarious , imagine it an old granny in her tip tt at the red stop light hanging out of the window asking you ""sunny fancy a burn up"" , you nod yes nervously..Then GREEN shes off your stick shifting barely using the clutch and stillll she slightly drifts away ,,,, along with one hand out of her window giving you the one finger exercise ,, hmmmmm ""what a babe""
throt..
Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?
Quote:
CF said:
I was so puzzled about this Tiptronic so I made some calls and got this Info.
Posted times ARE in fact reversed!
Once again,THE POSTED ACCELERATION TIMES has mistakingly been reversed when published on the Porsche website and in the info sent out to prospective customers!
Order has been restored
It should read 0-100: 3,7 manual and 3.9 Tip
0-200: 12.2 manual and 12.8 Tip!!!
You are kidding...? Christophorus also states that tiptronic is faster...
Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?
Quote:
CF said:
I was so puzzled about this Tiptronic so I made some calls and got this Info.
Posted times ARE in fact reversed!
Once again,THE POSTED ACCELERATION TIMES has mistakingly been reversed when published on the Porsche website and in the info sent out to prospective customers!
Order has been restored
It should read 0-100: 3,7 manual and 3.9 Tip
0-200: 12.2 manual and 12.8 Tip!!!
Now we are talking , just about to say lets wait for more figures . This would tie more accurate and to the norm..
throt...
Feb 14, 2006 9:00:04 PM
- Crash
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- Loc: Never been to , Antarctica
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- Reply to: Nick_Athens
Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?
Guys, please let's not forget that the Turbo S was the only variant of the TT available in 2005.
So now we're going to be splitting hairs. "You're comparing it to the powerkit", "You suck for only thinking about the straight line, RC", yadda yadda.
The car is new, they've had 7 years to improve upon the old model and THREE years to improve upon the powerkit. So why am I dissatisfied?
Because the Turbo S, while very fast, is only enough to keep up with the competition. Commendable for a car this old, but the all new 997TT should beat the 430 and the Gallardo substantially, which it won't, judiging by these numbers.
Now, IF the numbers are very conservative and the manual does 0-200 in 12 seconds, then I will gladly keep my mouth shut and marvel at the performance, but not at this.
The sceptics were right when they said that the Z06 will walk all over it (with these numbers it will).
And why do we care about straight-line performance? Probably because when you buy the "ultimate sports car", as the Turbo became known over the years, you want to also be able to show it once in a while.
I LOVE corners and solitary, winding roads, but occasionally I'll gladly go against another car on a highway.
And since my friend just bought an M6, which isn't much slower, I could have a problem justifying the price of a car, that costs a third more than the M6, to MYSELF.
We can shout "straight line performance is irrelevant" all we want, but if that were true, we'd all be driving Lancer EVOs for a third of the money.
So now we're going to be splitting hairs. "You're comparing it to the powerkit", "You suck for only thinking about the straight line, RC", yadda yadda.
The car is new, they've had 7 years to improve upon the old model and THREE years to improve upon the powerkit. So why am I dissatisfied?
Because the Turbo S, while very fast, is only enough to keep up with the competition. Commendable for a car this old, but the all new 997TT should beat the 430 and the Gallardo substantially, which it won't, judiging by these numbers.
Now, IF the numbers are very conservative and the manual does 0-200 in 12 seconds, then I will gladly keep my mouth shut and marvel at the performance, but not at this.
The sceptics were right when they said that the Z06 will walk all over it (with these numbers it will).
And why do we care about straight-line performance? Probably because when you buy the "ultimate sports car", as the Turbo became known over the years, you want to also be able to show it once in a while.
I LOVE corners and solitary, winding roads, but occasionally I'll gladly go against another car on a highway.
And since my friend just bought an M6, which isn't much slower, I could have a problem justifying the price of a car, that costs a third more than the M6, to MYSELF.
We can shout "straight line performance is irrelevant" all we want, but if that were true, we'd all be driving Lancer EVOs for a third of the money.
Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?
Quote:
CF said:
I was so puzzled about this Tiptronic so I made some calls and got this Info.
Posted times ARE in fact reversed!
Once again,THE POSTED ACCELERATION TIMES has mistakingly been reversed when published on the Porsche website and in the info sent out to prospective customers!
Order has been restored
It should read 0-100: 3,7 manual and 3.9 Tip
0-200: 12.2 manual and 12.8 Tip!!!
Holy crap!!!
Wooooo!
Feb 14, 2006 9:09:17 PM
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Ron (Houston)
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Reply to:
CF
Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?
Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
CF said:
Quote:
You are kidding...? Christophorus also states that tiptronic is faster...
No I'm not.
Someone in the marketing department made a serious mistake.
That would be excellent news
Thats why I said I would stick with the stick , I could never see it ..
throt..
Feb 14, 2006 9:13:45 PM
- throt
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Reply to:
Ron (Houston)
Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?
Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:Quote:
CF said:
No I'm not.
Someone in the marketing department made a serious mistake.
Gee, that's an indication as to how well educated the marketing people are about cars at Porsche
Another office cock up by some birdie at a desk
..throt..
Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?
Sorry, as much as I value your opinion, I have to state that far too many people are stating their discontentment over the, well... perceived lack of sufficient power?!, and the ever constant issues whether to "tip" or not to "tip". I'm sorry, but I adamntly feel that Porsche got it sooooo right with this rocket. As far as manual v. tip, like the aforementioned minorities stated; go with the passion, who cares about a couple of hundreths of a second in a perfect environment. Do you really want to drive an auto over the fantastic stick through the twisties, or for that matter, anywhere.
For me the sky's the limit as far as horsepower goes, however, with that said, Porsche does many things right, one of which is keeping the previous customer loyal and from feeling cheated over their last purchase by their method of slight increases over the years. How would YOU feel if you just forked over 130,000.00K+, just to have your recently purchased 996TT, become basically obsolete.
M6, M5, AMG, whatever, they all hev far more weight and far less torque; AMG excluded. This beast will most likely best the best, or at least match, that Ferrari (Enzo, etc...excluded of course), Lambo, and the rest have to offer.
I love this car. I don't have to WIN every drag race. The immeasureable pleasure of this driver's car can't be measured only by stats.
This isn't addressed to anyone in particular just my 2
cents. Sorry if I offended anyone.
For me the sky's the limit as far as horsepower goes, however, with that said, Porsche does many things right, one of which is keeping the previous customer loyal and from feeling cheated over their last purchase by their method of slight increases over the years. How would YOU feel if you just forked over 130,000.00K+, just to have your recently purchased 996TT, become basically obsolete.
M6, M5, AMG, whatever, they all hev far more weight and far less torque; AMG excluded. This beast will most likely best the best, or at least match, that Ferrari (Enzo, etc...excluded of course), Lambo, and the rest have to offer.
I love this car. I don't have to WIN every drag race. The immeasureable pleasure of this driver's car can't be measured only by stats.
This isn't addressed to anyone in particular just my 2
cents. Sorry if I offended anyone.
Feb 14, 2006 9:17:09 PM
- Bennett
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- Loc: California, USA
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- Reply to: Nick_Athens
Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?
Quote:
Aisxos said:You make some BIG mistakes.... I dont know how much experience you have with sport cars...but
First 0-100km the tiptronic vs manual doesnt have ONLY 0.3sec difference... and this because the famous OLD LADY can make this time anytime... with the manual you have to make the PERFECT start in order to achieve it... and something more, the EVEN WORSE is not the 0-100 BUT THE 0-200km where the old lady with the coffee on the table will have passed you more than 3 cars!!
Lets forget about this now if you buy the tiptronic, you are going to loose all the FUN of your car...
On the other hand if you buy the manual you are going to have a very big problem AGAIN (first from the old lady with the coffee and secondly from all the F430 AND from all the 996 Turbos which 80% of them are tuned!!)
we dont know yet if you can easily tune the 997tt... (which rumors say that you cant)
and the worse is that you will have paid and 190.000 euros... (here in Greece that is the price for 997tt)
I completely understand how hard it is to hit shift points perfectly to keep up with the Trip transmission but the point I was trying to get across in my painfully long message was that straight line performance is not that important. How often do you race in a straight line? The 911 Turbo is not designed for just straight line acceleration. Porsche's are about a well balanced automobile that is comfortable in all environments. Everyone in this forum is so concerned with straight line performannce and the HP figure. Go tune your Porsche if it isn't fast enough for you or buy something else. But I'm just tired of people complaining about these 0-60 times. They are sooo much faster than the previous Turbo. What were you expecting?
Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?
Quote:
brunner said:
BAHAHAHAHA!
This is way too funny, i'm rupturing my guts here laughing :grin
I can see the threads tomorrow, "NO, WAIT, THE 997TT IS COOL AFTER ALL"
Yes, but with good reason.
12,2 for the manual is a lot better than 12,8 and since I will not buy a Tip, very important to me.
Feb 14, 2006 9:24:40 PM
- bostonmini
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Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?
....guys, the tip is slower, it must be unless the ratios are different, I bet anything CF is right; this isnt even a new design, dont know why ppl are so perplexed, other than the [censored] that screwed up the figures...Who really cares anyway until someone drives one, and incidentally i firmly believe that the standard bone stock turbo will have 500 HP in reality, but for marketing reasons will say "483" just as was the case with the GT2...the only really strange thing is the quarter mile in 11.6 while 124 MPH takes 12.2....the car has to be going near this speed to cover the quarter that fast....
Feb 14, 2006 9:27:03 PM
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Nick_Athens
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- Loc: Greece , Greece
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Reply to:
CF
Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?
Quote:
CF said:
I was so puzzled about this Tiptronic so I made some calls and got this Info.
Posted times ARE in fact reversed!
Once again,THE POSTED ACCELERATION TIMES has mistakingly been reversed when published on the Porsche website and in the info sent out to prospective customers!
Order has been restored
It should read 0-100: 3,7 manual and 3.9 Tip
0-200: 12.2 manual and 12.8 Tip!!!
AND NOW WHAT ABOUT THE OLD LADY WITH THE COFFEE??? OMG
Feb 14, 2006 9:32:43 PM
- Crash
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- Reply to: Nick_Athens
Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?
Quote:
Aisxos said:Quote:
CF said:
I was so puzzled about this Tiptronic so I made some calls and got this Info.
Posted times ARE in fact reversed!
Once again,THE POSTED ACCELERATION TIMES has mistakingly been reversed when published on the Porsche website and in the info sent out to prospective customers!
Order has been restored
It should read 0-100: 3,7 manual and 3.9 Tip
0-200: 12.2 manual and 12.8 Tip!!!
AND NOW WHAT ABOUT THE OLD LADY WITH THE COFFEE??? OMG
"Come on lucky numbers! Grandma needs a new ECU upgrade... BINGO!!!"
Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?
Quote:
CF said:
I was so puzzled about this Tiptronic so I made some calls and got this Info.
Posted times ARE in fact reversed!
Once again,THE POSTED ACCELERATION TIMES has mistakingly been reversed when published on the Porsche website and in the info sent out to prospective customers!
Order has been restored
It should read 0-100: 3,7 manual and 3.9 Tip
0-200: 12.2 manual and 12.8 Tip!!!
Dudes,
I was just about to post (or PM RC) that RC should still stick with the manual for lots of reasons:
1. It is still more controlled/fun driving (and still fast),
2. It is required to get the LSD (IMO very important for an enthusiast driver who wants to drive the car HARD),
3. I also believe that with the bulletproof 3.6L TT engine adapted with the VTG's, this car even with factory specs. is a LIMITED car, and has tremendous potential for tuning-imagine 600 peak HP PLUS 750Nm torque between 2,000 and 5,000rpm-I believe this is feasible with this car with this engine and with these turbo's-the tuners will come with one that is reliable too-I suspect in RC's own backyard (well, maybe not literally, but figuratively
), and I bet we'll see a Manthey997TT or RS997TT with 600 peak HP, permanent overboost capability, and 0-100kph times of 3-flat, 0-160kph of low 7's, and quarter miles in sub-11 with trap speeds of 130's+mph-and won't erupt like Krakatoa. So the way to go is 997TT with Manual/PCCB's/Sports Chrono Turbo (of course)/LSD, and if the powerkit isn't retrofittable, then tune her up, baby!
Sure we can all have our pet peeves with the car-I still don't care for the rims, for example-but as Brunner said, we're desecrating the thing before it hits (dry) pavement. 
If CF is correct, and the Tip/manual specs. were switched, then send the VP of marketing to the barracks.
Feb 14, 2006 9:33:11 PM
- svtrader1
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- Reply to: bostonmini
Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?
Quote:
bostonmini said:
the only really strange thing is the quarter mile in 11.6 while 124 MPH takes 12.2....the car has to be going near this speed to cover the quarter that fast....
You're absolutely right! It doesn't add up. The smoke still hasn't cleared.
Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?
Quote:
Crash said:Quote:
rhino said:
Sorry thats just the way I feel. I think the 997 turbo was improved in comparison to the 996 turbo. What more can we ask for. Porsche or any other car manufacturer for that matter could never satisfy 100% of all your wishes (customers). They provided better 0-60 times for both trannies, more aggresive styling, better fuel economy, made it lighter, more detailed and better quality interior, al for around the same price... Since when has Porsche changed the design drastically. This is why you can put a 1970's 911 and the 997 next to each other and recognize that they are the from the same gene pool. I strongly disagree that Porshe has failed. Maybe they deserve an A- but failing I think not!!!
I strongly disagree with you and strongly agree with both MKSGR, RC and others who have the same sentiment.
Let's review:
997TT performance stats:
3,9s 0-100 km/h
12,8s 0-200 km/h
996TTS/X50 performance stats:
Test in ams 1/2003
Gewicht 1578 kg
0 - 80 km/h 3,0 s
0 - 100 km/h 3,9 s
0 - 120 km/h 5,5 s
0 - 140 km/h 6,8 s
0 - 160 km/h 8,4 s
0 - 180 km/h 10,9 s
0 - 200 km/h 12,9 s
Test in Auto Zeitung 08/2005
Gewicht 1600 kg
0 - 80 km/h 3,2 s
0 - 100 km/h 4,1 s
0 - 120 km/h 5,6 s
0 - 130 km/h - s
0 - 140 km/h 6,9 s
0 - 160 km/h 8,5 s
0 - 180 km/h 10,8 s
0 - 200 km/h 13,1 s
If you know basic mathematics, you can see what I'm aiming at.
A whole 1/10 of a second improvement in 100-200 km/h acceleration? With the allmighty VTG?
If the powerkit doesn't deliver substantially better performance, Porsche will have lost at least one customer.
Good point, but you are comparing offical specs to test specs. Officals are almost always understated, so there is some improvement.
However, going back to the original post by RC, I feel your sentiments exactly
. I also commend you on your courage to post something that must have been extremely difficult.-----------
Tip/Auto debate:
here's a thought for those siding with Porsche PR on this one: If the Tip is geared to be faster to 200kmph (hence slower to 300kmph), why do they only release the stats where the Tip is faster! It's as if they're ushering you into buying the tip
. Very irritating!!!!
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