Crown

Board: Porsche - 911 - 997 Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    X51 v normal "S"

    Apologies - posted this first incorrectly in the 'turbo' board.

    Put about 100 miles on the X51 Cab. Just getting the running gear seated and worn in a bit. I've had two 997S cars already, a coupe and a cab, and this engine feels markedly different. It feels freer-revving and stronger - to those with a broken in, sport chrono "S" car, the powerkit option without "sport" engaged is what yours feels like, in the sweet spot of the powerband, with "sport" engaged. In "sport" mode the X51 is really special. All around, the engine has a good bit more oomph. I am looking forward to the end of break-in on this new one. The PASM also seems better - the 'wobble' - for lack of a better term - with PASM on sport, in a corner, although never really pronounced in the other cars, feels nearly absent.

    Re: X51 v normal "S"

    I think "Excellence" just did a good review on X51 and they were impressed too.

    Re: X51 v normal "S"

    ale,

    Good to hear! Thanks!


    Re: X51 v normal "S"

    I'm sure the X51 is amazing, but with it and a few options, then the 997TT is almost within reach at US $123000. And the GT3 is certainly within reach.

    Re: X51 v normal "S"

    True, but the TT (I've had two) and GT3(had none - dont track)are are totally different cars - both by purpose and feel. A 612 Ferrari, by that measure, is a 'better buy' than a 430(not to mention a 430 Spider). The rwd is, to me, the best 'feel' of the Porsche cars. Prodigious grip, at 355hp more than abundantly useful power, etc. X51 is, with very little seat time, a very enjoyable upgrade - better than I expected. And, for me, a Porsche cab is unbeatable - nearly no 'twist'; you'd think you were driving a coupe. If you've driven a Maser Spyder you have a good sense of how a convertible can look great but shake like jello over any road imperfection.

    Re: X51 v normal "S"

    Quote:
    Targa Tim said:
    I'm sure the X51 is amazing, but with it and a few options, then the 997TT is almost within reach at US $123000. And the GT3 is certainly within reach.



    I'm sure there will be plenty of people who would go for the 997TT if the prices are close but not me. I would perfer a C2S Cab w/X51. My reasons why I would not get the 997TT:

    1. I hate the look of the fixed rear wing.
    2. I love a drop top.
    3. X51 provides more then enough power.
    4. I don't track, plan to track, or have a desire to see people track.
    5. Insurance.
    6. I hate the look of the fixed rear wing.

    O did I say I hate the look of the fixed rear wing?

    PS. This is just one man's opinion.

    GOT IT!!!!

    Here's the major blurb on X51 from excellence. ENJOY! You did the right thing!



    With the fluids properly warmed and a long onramp just ahead, it's time to put the X51 engine through its paces. In second gear and at full throttle, acceleration is strong - but then the same can be said for any Carrera S and even the 3.6-liter Carrera. The latest 3.8-liter 997s are powerful enough leave one wondering if there's much development potential left in the normally-aspirated flat six.

    X51 answers that question convincingly, with a 997 Carrera S-like powerband that's as linear as it is strong. It offers good torque from just off idle all the way up to redline, but it can't match the GT3's top-end fervor. It feels slightly more "workhorse" to the high-strung GT3's thoroughbred. But, in a 911 more likely to be used every day than most GT3s will be, that's a good thing. The X51 3.8 offers tractable power everywhere, with plenty of good noises and enough zing to keep things interesting as it reaches for redline.

    Does it feel faster than a plain Carrera S? Yes and no. No because it's tough to feel a seven percent power increase in a car that weighs more than 3,000 pounds and claims more than 350 horsepower. But informal roll-on tests in third and fourth gears later in the day saw the Club Coupe pull away from the 2005 997S slowly, but surely. It was exactly the difference you'd expect from a 26 hp/11 lb-ft advantage. Importantly, X51 gives up nothing across its powerband to the regular 3.8. Though its peak power and torque figures come 600 and 900 rpm later, the X51's powerband never dips below the 3.8's. Even from 1500-2000 rpm, it has a useful, 15 lb-ft advantage.

    People after the best horsepower-per-dollar equation might be happier spending their $17,000 on the aftermarket, but X51 has two edges that must be considered: (1) it maintains the factory's full warranty and (2) there's a sweetness to this engine that can't be quantified. The throttle response in the X51-equipped 2006 997S was plain superior to the 2005 997S we tried. The revised motor sings through its powerband with an alacrity one wouldn't know the standard engine is missing - unless he or she tried an X51. Gear after gear, pull after pull to its 7300-rpm redline, the X51 engine is considerably more satisfying than the normal 3.8 - which itself is no slouch.

    Re: X51 v normal "S"

    Quote:
    bstew said:
    My reasons why I would not get the 997TT:

    1. I hate the look of the fixed rear wing.
    6. I hate the look of the fixed rear wing.

    O did I say I hate the look of the fixed rear wing?

    PS. This is just one man's opinion.



    Yesssss, That bloody wing. Turning me off to it also. BUT I will probably buy one anyway (in a couple years) and trade in current 997S.

    I mean, anybody who looks at it who know's nothing about cars will see it as they see the Ford "Whatever" with it's jazzy wing. Big deal.

    Car guys will see it as THE TURBO! Car guys will NOT see it as "the-997-owner-wanting-to-look-like-a-turbo"

    So I guess that's something not-bad about the attention-getting wing for no-attention-wanting guys who buy one.

    Re: X51 v normal "S"

    I put 280 miles on my X51 over the week-end. It is an amazing world class car. I owned an 89 930(5 speed 296 HP). The 997 makes that car seem primitive in all respects. I have driven standard 997S and drove an 04 Turbo before making decision to opt for X51, and I am not disapointed. I just got out of an 04 CTT so I know what a high HP and torque auto can do. Kept the revs below 5000, but drove the car hard to that point, utilizing the short shift fully. The car pulls immediately from the start, and on the highway, the passing power and torque are superb.
    I have no desire to EVER track the car. This car exceeds any acceleration or handling capabilities I desire. In everday city and highway driving, the X51 is unreal. And I have yet to take it past 5000 RPM.
    The sound from the PSE with Sport Chrono engaged is not to be believed. When I think of the $$ spent over the years in after market exhaust, and PSE comes from the factory.
    Price ot X51 vs. TT was never a consideration for me. I knew what I wanted. Much can be said for resale, depreciation highly optioned car etc, but all that is a personal choice. I really enjoy the feel of a 2WD auto that is naturally breathing in high revs.
    And no one is going to be dropping the top of a 997 TT cab this summer in USA

    Re: X51 v normal "S"

    Ale - Good to hear your thoughts on the comparison. I look forward to your commentary after break-in.

    As far as the X51 to TT speculation - I am firmly in the normally aspirated camp. I have a C2S X51 PCCB on order, priced higher (before discount) than the new Turbo and I have no intention of changing it. While the turbo power and marquee are very appealing, the car just looks too fussy for my tastes.

    I've never been a fan of the side air intakes as they butcher the sexiest contours of the car. The Turbo front light assemblies (LEDs & fogs) appear more as shiny baubles than the uniform and elegant integrations on the normally aspirated models. And the rear wing, though more tasteful to my eyes than the ready for track-work GT3 wing I just can't stomach it as more than a superfluous appendage.

    As far as engine power, 381 horses are fine for me. I tracked the base 997 and 997S at PDE and the S felt plenty powerful. Two wheel driving also suits me better. If four wheel drive was my priority I'd buy an Audi.

    Finally, all this talk of resale doesn't jive with my genetic makeup. I buy this car for keeps and will drive her till the wheels fall off, the mechanicals become irretrievable, or my bank account cries uncle. More a love affair than joy ride for hire.

    Re: X51 v normal "S"

    Quote:
    RAKLAW said:
    I put 280 miles on my X51 over the week-end. It is an amazing world class car. I owned an 89 930(5 speed 296 HP). The 997 makes that car seem primitive in all respects. I have driven standard 997S and drove an 04 Turbo before making decision to opt for X51, and I am not disapointed. I just got out of an 04 CTT so I know what a high HP and torque auto can do. Kept the revs below 5000, but drove the car hard to that point, utilizing the short shift fully. The car pulls immediately from the start, and on the highway, the passing power and torque are superb.
    I have no desire to EVER track the car. This car exceeds any acceleration or handling capabilities I desire. In everday city and highway driving, the X51 is unreal. And I have yet to take it past 5000 RPM.
    The sound from the PSE with Sport Chrono engaged is not to be believed. When I think of the $$ spent over the years in after market exhaust, and PSE comes from the factory.
    Price ot X51 vs. TT was never a consideration for me. I knew what I wanted. Much can be said for resale, depreciation highly optioned car etc, but all that is a personal choice. I really enjoy the feel of a 2WD auto that is naturally breathing in high revs.
    And no one is going to be dropping the top of a 997 TT cab this summer in USA



    I agree--I had an 01 996 Turbo immediately before my Club Coupe. And I'm still in the 2,000 mile take it easy period, so I haven't gotten to red line yet. But the launch is much quicker than the Turbo was; the X51 sings under full throttle as no turbo can (btw, you need to do the always on PSE bypass); and it really is a free revving, breathing motor. If it had the true dry sump of the Turbo/GT3's 3.6, it would be perfect.

    The rush of 0-60 in 3.4 sec (997 Turbo with a Tip) would be impressive, but I wouldn't trade the Deuce (Club Coupe 2 of 50) even up for the 997 Turbo. A GT3 (if I could get it with a Tip or better yet, PDK eventually because I cannot work a clutch for physical reasons) would be harder to resist.

    Yes, I'm Paul--reformed Turbo junkie

    Re: X51 v normal "S"

    I remember well poring over stats of the 'super'cars when I was a kid in the 70s when the 911 became my personal icon. The mighty Turbo of yore had a whopping 270 hp as I recall, and it was a 'sub 6 60'. Of course, today, a Camry might get into the 6s - no matter, it still ain't no 911.

    That is, the power, grace and finesse of today's 911 is so extraordinary that we are getting into the number of angels that dance on the head of a pin with the power of a turbo, or, more, a turbo S. My X51 was just going exactly as quickly as the scion dead stopped next to me in the urban traffic which, I'm sure, many of us enjoy.

    I've got a 430 order and have had a 360. I'll doubtless enjoy that piece of rolling art in the stoplight derby, but, in the end, the 911 calls you home if you got hooked on that car as a kid. The pure 911 of whatever is the day - no wings n things - driving just the rear wheels. And, you can be sure, that our cars - be they 4.2 to 60 or 3.7 to 60 are ridiculously quick, and at 186 or 19xxxx mph, offering top end that none of us will ever see save for a few seconds on the 'bahn.

    Re: X51 v normal "S"

    Quote:
    sato said:

    As far as engine power, 381 horses are fine for me.




    Nah, I get a chuckle when I hear guys say stuff like you said here. It's a nervous chuckle for sure, but c'mon really, think about it... you have to conclude 450hp is something you gotta have!???

    Alain Decadenet sez 600 hp per ton is the ideal HP for a track car. So we should have at least half that for our roadcars, right? That would be exactly the 450 hp of the TURBO!!!!

    Re: X51 v normal "S"

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Quote:
    sato said:

    As far as engine power, 381 horses are fine for me.




    Nah, I get a chuckle when I hear guys say stuff like you said here. It's a nervous chuckle for sure, but c'mon really, think about it... you have to conclude 450hp is something you gotta have?



    Now that is a language I can understand. A 911 Turbo is a timeless BEAST - a supercar that can be driven everyday, rain, shine or snow. On regular roads, NOTHING compares to one - no 997 with X51 or PCCB, no GT3, nothing.

    I have to agree that the 997 TT looks way overstyled to me, but that wouldn't stop me from stepping up from a 997 with X51 anyday of any week. Anyone who says otherwise should drive them first.

    Re: X51 v normal "S"

    "anyone who says otherwise..." that is exactly what's being said in this thread. I see you drive a 996; great car. Have you driven a 996TT for an extended period? I have - coupe and cab. This new factory pwr upgraded engine is, simply, stunning. If you've driven the TT for some miles, and the X51 car, and can offer your drive time comparison, it'd be good to hear that too. That was the whole idea when I started this thread.

    Re: X51 v normal "S"

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Quote:
    sato said:

    As far as engine power, 381 horses are fine for me.




    Nah, I get a chuckle when I hear guys say stuff like you said here. It's a nervous chuckle for sure, but c'mon really, think about it... you have to conclude 450hp is something you gotta have!???

    Alain Decadenet sez 600 hp per ton is the ideal HP for a track car. So we should have at least half that for our roadcars, right? That would be exactly the 450 hp of the TURBO!!!!



    I have to admit the thought of 450+ hp does give me a tingle.

    What can I say? I'm just a guy who knows his limitations.

    Re: X51 v normal "S"

    Ale..Could not agree with you more. Having owned and loved 4 Ferraris this X51 engine is indeed a marvel, and transforms the S immeasurably. I can only imagine what its like at 7300 RPM. I feel very fortunate to have aquired one.

    Re: X51 v normal "S"

    Thanks guys!

    Now, more nights of little sleep thinking of my baby equipped with 381 ponies.


    Re: X51 v normal "S"

    Hmmmm, wonder the X51 could be retrofitted?? Anyone know the answer? I think I remember powerkit could be fitted with the 996.

    Re: X51 v normal "S"

    Raklaw I agree with every word you said. I get yesterday my 4s x51 pccb, and this is a very special car. by far the best 911 I tested in the last time includind turbo, gt3, standard s etc. the x51 is every cent worth.
    ciao
    alex

    Re: X51 v normal "S"

    Quote:
    alexis said:
    Raklaw I agree with every word you said. I get yesterday my 4s x51 pccb, and this is a very special car. by far the best 911 I tested in the last time includind turbo, gt3, standard s etc. the x51 is every cent worth.
    ciao
    alex



    Alexis, yo just introduced an interesting variable that I was wondering. Who can comment on the C4S X51? Any views of how does it compare to the C2S X51 and C4S? Thanks.

    Re: X51 v normal "S"

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Quote:
    sato said:

    As far as engine power, 381 horses are fine for me.




    Nah, I get a chuckle when I hear guys say stuff like you said here. It's a nervous chuckle for sure, but c'mon really, think about it... you have to conclude 450hp is something you gotta have!???

    Alain Decadenet sez 600 hp per ton is the ideal HP for a track car. So we should have at least half that for our roadcars, right? That would be exactly the 450 hp of the TURBO!!!!



    I for one would be quite happy with 381 horses.

    Re: X51 v normal "S"

    Quote:
    alexis said:
    Raklaw I agree with every word you said. I get yesterday my 4s x51 pccb, and this is a very special car. by far the best 911 I tested in the last time includind turbo, gt3, standard s etc. the x51 is every cent worth.
    ciao
    alex



    Alex, Please let us know your C4S X51 impressions! Your spec is very similar to the car I have on order for a Mar (I hope) build - C4S, X51, PCCB. Looking forward to pictures, thoughts, etc.

    - Tom

    Re: X51 v normal "S"

    Paul S.. The plug for the hack on the X51 is not visible as it is on standard S motor. How did you achieve full-time PSE

    Re: X51 v normal "S"

    As mentioned in the German-language side of the Rennteam forum it was thought that Porsche would make available a bundled 'package' if you will for enthusiasts,--X51, PCCB and the Sport Chrono,--and shave a little off the package. But, as we have seen, that's not what we're going to get.

    Perhaps the Sport Chrono option is best exploited with the addition of X51.

    Dan

    Re: X51 v normal "S"

    You only live once, get a TT , I am.

    Re: X51 v normal "S"

    Get the Carrera S with X51, PCCB and the Sport Chrono for Porsches current best Naturally Aspirated engine for the street/light track ...2nd only to the 997GT3 of course. That's right, we only live once.

    Re: X51 v normal "S"

    Quote:
    ale said:
    "anyone who says otherwise..." that is exactly what's being said in this thread. I see you drive a 996; great car. Have you driven a 996TT for an extended period? I have - coupe and cab. This new factory pwr upgraded engine is, simply, stunning. If you've driven the TT for some miles, and the X51 car, and can offer your drive time comparison, it'd be good to hear that too. That was the whole idea when I started this thread.



    I have not driven both the C2S with X51 and the 997 TT. Nobody here has. That was my point.

    The 997 TT will likely offer the same stunning performance difference from it's normally aspirated little brother that was offered in the 996 series - a difference I experienced after driving both. Sure, the X51 will close the gap to some degree, but I suspect the 997TT will still provide the (much) bigger grin.

    It does remain to be seen, but I'd be willing to bet on it!

    Let's all chant: Turbo-Turbo-Turbo . . .

    Re: X51 v normal "S"

    Fascinating thread Thanks guys for your first hand insights... Makes the X51 seem even more tempting than I thought....

     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 3/17/24 7:48 AM
    GnilM
    662657 1775
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 2/19/24 11:51 PM
    Wonderbar
    401316 564
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Cayman GT4 RS (2021) 5/12/23 12:11 PM
    W8MM
    254609 288
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022 3/12/24 8:28 AM
    DJM48
    229290 323
    Porsche Sticky The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche 1/30/24 9:18 AM
    RCA
    59670 45
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift 3/15/24 1:23 PM
    CGX car nut
    4383 50
    Porsche The moment I've been waiting for... 2/1/24 7:01 PM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    853591 1364
    Porsche 992 GT3 7/23/23 7:01 PM
    Grant
    762062 3868
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020) 4/6/23 7:43 AM
    crayphile
    446960 1276
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 2/10/24 4:43 PM
    nberry
    376626 1526
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 7/3/23 12:30 PM
    Porker
    359341 797
    Porsche GT4RS 2/22/24 5:16 AM
    tso
    358937 1424
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 12/13/23 2:48 PM
    CGX car nut
    350290 2401
    Lambo Aventador and SV 3/30/23 1:59 PM
    CGX car nut
    278211 724
    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 4/21/23 8:09 AM
    the-missile
    271335 550
    Porsche Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour 3/14/24 8:55 PM
    blueflame
    268576 658
    Porsche Collected my 997 GTS today 10/19/23 7:06 PM
    CGX car nut
     
     
     
     
     
    244235 812
    Lambo Huracán EVO STO 7/30/23 6:59 PM
    mcdelaug
    220902 346
    Others Corvette C8 10/16/23 3:24 PM
    Enmanuel
    217550 488
    Lotus Lotus Emira 6/25/23 2:53 PM
    Enmanuel
    185786 101
    Others Gordon Murray - T.50 11/22/23 10:27 AM
    mcdelaug
    150956 387
    Porsche Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS 6/11/23 5:13 PM
    CGX car nut
    122315 144
    AMG Bought a muscle car... 3/26/23 3:31 PM
    WhoopsyM
    118218 303
    Ferrari [2022] Ferrari Purosangue (SUV) 4/15/23 5:20 AM
    watt
    116033 141
    BMW M 2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now 12/29/23 9:04 AM
    RCA
    102205 303
    Motor Sp. 2023 Formula One 12/19/23 5:38 AM
    WhoopsyM
    100668 685
    Others Valkyrie final design? 4/28/23 2:45 AM
    Rossi
    97082 219
    Porsche 2022 992 Safari Model 3/7/24 4:22 PM
    WhoopsyM
    80077 239
    AMG Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758 2/23/24 10:03 PM
    blueflame
    74189 297
    Porsche 992 GT3 RS 3/3/24 7:22 PM
    WhoopsyM
    51733 314
    133 items found, displaying 1 to 30.