Crown
Board: Porsche - 911 - 996
Language: English
Region: Worldwide
Close
CloseForum - Thread
Re: Sport Exhaust System
Quote:
I'm almost ready to place my order on an '04 C4S. My last question is re: the Sport Exhaust System. Should I order it? Does it create any change in performance? I love the sound.
Highly recommendable if sound is your top priority!
Performance can be gained only with a sport exhaust with high flow catalysts and it would be in the 10 HP range on the 996. I'm not sure this is really worth it. Of course you can get rid of the catalysts but you'd need a motronic reprogramming to really make use of it.
To make my final point: the PSE is a great thing to have, it is an original Porsche part and you'l be very happy with it. Some aftermarket exhausts even make you loose power, even if it doesn't feel that way. What does it help if you gain 10 HP at 6500 rpm but loose 15 HP (and torque) at 3000 rpm? Food for thought.
Re: Sport Exhaust System
I would definetely recommend the factory sport exhaust, the sound is very nice and rich and has a great quality, really similar to the old air cooled cars.But as RC said, don't expect real hp gains by just changing mufflers.
RC: you raised a good point regarding the removal of the cats, I had done this on the Modena, and it does give you an hp increase which you actually notice and also improves the sound a lot(becomes unbearably loud for most though).
I was planning to do this on the RS in conjunction with mounting Cargraphic's super sound exhaust system, but they advised me not to do so, since the new GT3 and therefore the RS have 4 lambda sensors and OBD2.By putting test pipes the Check engine light would be permanently on and the DME could alter the parameters and have the engine not perform to the fullest.If this is correct I have a problem here, since I don't know any other way to have the car sound as I want it to...
RC: you raised a good point regarding the removal of the cats, I had done this on the Modena, and it does give you an hp increase which you actually notice and also improves the sound a lot(becomes unbearably loud for most though).
I was planning to do this on the RS in conjunction with mounting Cargraphic's super sound exhaust system, but they advised me not to do so, since the new GT3 and therefore the RS have 4 lambda sensors and OBD2.By putting test pipes the Check engine light would be permanently on and the DME could alter the parameters and have the engine not perform to the fullest.If this is correct I have a problem here, since I don't know any other way to have the car sound as I want it to...
Dec 10, 2003 2:41:26 PM
-
Ron (Houston)
- Rennteam Moderator
-
- Loc: Houston, TX , United States
- Posts: 8812, Gallery
- Registered on: Apr 10, 2002
- Reply to: Andrew D.
Re: Sport Exhaust System
No questions ask. PSE is a MUST I had a TechArt which sounded like stock exhaust and I changed it for PSE, I love it. I actually change my daily route longer from work to home to hear the sound longer.
Believe it or not, ever since I installed the PSE I don't even turn on my Radio
Believe it or not, ever since I installed the PSE I don't even turn on my Radio
Re: Sport Exhaust System
luigi, man you really like it loud, don't you? although i miss the loundness of my carrera's PSE i prefer the sound of the RS a lot. it's an honest sound, no exhaust F/X -- from rickety to trumpeting... especially heard from the cabin. from outside, it's a little bit low on volume, right. my neighbours are glad, though. but since you've been used to a tubistyle system with removed cats... i can really imagine that you sometimes are wondering if the RS engine is still running
btw, i just noticed that you are a moderator. good news and welcome to the team!
to andrew d.: get the factor sport exhaust! highly recommended!
although i miss the loundness of my carrera's PSE i prefer the sound of the RS a lot. it's an honest sound, no exhaust F/X -- from rickety to trumpeting... especially heard from the cabin. from outside, it's a little bit low on volume, right. my neighbours are glad, though. but since you've been used to a tubistyle system with removed cats... i can really imagine that you sometimes are wondering if the RS engine is still running
btw, i just noticed that you are a moderator. good news and welcome to the team!
to andrew d.: get the factor sport exhaust! highly recommended!
Re: Sport Exhaust System
Quote:
I was planning to do this on the RS in conjunction with mounting Cargraphic's super sound exhaust system, but they advised me not to do so, since the new GT3 and therefore the RS have 4 lambda sensors and OBD2.By putting test pipes the Check engine light would be permanently on and the DME could alter the parameters and have the engine not perform to the fullest.If this is correct I have a problem here, since I don't know any other way to have the car sound as I want it to...
LG1:
So you can't upgrade the GT3 exhaust??? Can you explain why after market exhausts will cause problems??? Thanks
If you find a solution, can you make a post for us GT3 guys??? Thanks
Re: Sport Exhaust System
Quote:
hi rockitman
I will install on my GT3 the exhaust from europipe with 100cell cat.
see at www.europipe.be
Regards Bruno Luescher
So bruno, no issues with the sensor's tripping the check engine lite??? That euro pipe looks sweet....Thanks
Re: Sport Exhaust System
Quote:
Rockitman,
I ordered from europipe in 1993 a exhaust system for the 964 RS and it was really best quality what you can get.
did you watch also the video?
rg bruno
Just watched the video...The sound is quite intoxicating under acceleration...Feeling quite drunk now after watching it.
The build quality looks top notch and I like the performance dyno figures. They seem realistic. Pricey, but hey...do I spend $4,200 on the RS's carbon fiber wing kit or do I spend the $4200 on the pipe. Sound's like the pipe will be a much more enjoyable and worthwhile mod...Anyone with 2004 GT3 do this pipe yet??? would luv to hear some more impressions before I drop the hammer....
Re: Sport Exhaust System
Quote:
hi rockitman
I will install on my GT3 the exhaust from europipe with 100cell cat.
see at www.europipe.be
Regards Bruno Luescher
Looks more like Cargraphic (Phoenix - UK) to me.
Even the prices are similar.
The dyno testing has been done by Manthey Tuning in Germany.
Re: Sport Exhaust System
Quote:Quote:
hi rockitman
I will install on my GT3 the exhaust from europipe with 100cell cat.
see at www.europipe.be
Regards Bruno Luescher
Looks more like Cargraphic (Phoenix - UK) to me.
Even the prices are similar.
The dyno testing has been done by Manthey Tuning in Germany.
The design looks similar, but the steel and welds look different. Are you suggesting that this is cargraphics mfg. set up sold under the europipe name????
Re: Sport Exhaust System
Quote:
Are you suggesting that this is cargraphics mfg. set up sold under the europipe name????
The Cargraphic exhaust are actually made my Phoenix UK as far as I heard. So yes, it would perfectly make sense.
Developping an exhaust system, especially for turbo charged cars, is no simple task. It needs a lot of know-how.
Phoenix in the UK also makes the exhaust systems for 911 race cars as far as I know, so it would be the perfect source.
Also the fact that Manthey installs the Europipe system could be an indication but I'm not 100% sure.
Anyway: Cargraphic exhausts are pretty good, so there is nothing to worry about.
Re: Sport Exhaust System
they (europipes) are located in my hometown.
Stef & Herman doining a great job
for myself I did ordered the PSE (996 4s '04)
and after 6 weeks I still got the 'vrrrroemmmmm' smile
but for all other 'P'st,gt2,gt3,.. I strongly recomment europipe 
ps; offcourse I disconnected the cut off around 40 to 70km/h , on/off switch is still working perfect
Stef & Herman doining a great job
for myself I did ordered the PSE (996 4s '04)
and after 6 weeks I still got the 'vrrrroemmmmm' smile
but for all other 'P's
t,gt2,gt3,.. I strongly recomment europipe ps; offcourse I disconnected the cut off around 40 to 70km/h , on/off switch is still working perfect
Cargraphics R-Exhaust system
They claim 20+ hp for the complete system: headers,cats,mufflers. My thought is if your willing to spend $4300 for cats/mufflers to get 10hp, why not spend the additional $1800 or so to get a complete system with headers for 20hp??? Anyone have any experience with the R-Exhaust system from Cargraphic that includes the headers,cats and mufflers??? Thanks
Re: Cargraphics R-Exhaust system
Rockitman, sorry I wasn't clear in my post:the check engine light is triggered if you replace the cats with straight pipes(as I first wanted to do), both the cargraphic and europipe systems won't trigger the Check Engine light even if the cats were replaced with their sport cats.
Europipe and Cargraphic are not the same exhausts, RC is correct when saying that Cargraphic's are indeed manufactured by Phoenix of UK.
I was going for Cargraphic's Export muffler and also their sport cats (OBD2 compliant), since the people at cargraphic tell me that the sport cats also improve the sound and I want the loudest and screamier sound possible.
Looking at Europipe's system I noticed that their sport cats are 100 cells and still OBD2 compliant, whereas Cargraphic's OBD2 sportcats are 200 cells, so europipe's system will be even freer flowing and with lower backpressure but still OBD2 compliant.
I then had a long chat with Mr. Tourne' at Europipe and found out that they can, on special order, build a muffler with a much higher noise level than the one on their site and with a very screamy note (basically straight pipes after the sportcats), which is just what I want.
I'm really torn now between going with Cargraphic or choosing Europipe...
Any feedback or advice is highly appreciated...
Europipe and Cargraphic are not the same exhausts, RC is correct when saying that Cargraphic's are indeed manufactured by Phoenix of UK.
I was going for Cargraphic's Export muffler and also their sport cats (OBD2 compliant), since the people at cargraphic tell me that the sport cats also improve the sound and I want the loudest and screamier sound possible.
Looking at Europipe's system I noticed that their sport cats are 100 cells and still OBD2 compliant, whereas Cargraphic's OBD2 sportcats are 200 cells, so europipe's system will be even freer flowing and with lower backpressure but still OBD2 compliant.
I then had a long chat with Mr. Tourne' at Europipe and found out that they can, on special order, build a muffler with a much higher noise level than the one on their site and with a very screamy note (basically straight pipes after the sportcats), which is just what I want.
I'm really torn now between going with Cargraphic or choosing Europipe...
Any feedback or advice is highly appreciated...
Re: Cargraphics R-Exhaust system
Quote:
I'm really torn now between going with Cargraphic or choosing Europipe...
Any feedback or advice is highly appreciated...
Thanks Luigi...I too am torn literally apart trying to decide which way to go...If I go cats/mufflers, I kind of like the europipe...I have not heard the Cargraphic sport cat/muffler setup and how that would compare with europipe. I am also wondering if 100 cell cats will hold up...I have been told they burn out rather quickly, but I suppose it depends on the strength and material packing type inside the cat...
Finally, for the extra $1500 or so for headers, I am wondering if it would be better to go for the entire Cargraphic "R" system w/ headers for more hp, supposedly..."I have yet to see dyno numbers from Cargraphic, but have requested them... The europipe sure looks and sounds sweet...I just don't know what to do...
What do you think??? cats/mufflers or headers/cats/mufflers...
Re: Cargraphics R-Exhaust system
I have Cargraphic complet r system, and RS ecu on my GT3 and thay clamed 20 ps gain and I will atach the dyno graph. The sound is good, but as Olivier Niemche from PSI motorsport sad the headers are not ok, the pipes are not same lenght (if You understand what I ment, sorry for bed Engish). The car had after changing tne exhoust system (headers,cats and mufflers), ECU and air filter the car had 363.8 PS
Re: Cargraphics R-Exhaust system
Here is the dyno with europipe w/ 100 cell race cats only, stock headers... Looks like I will only consider cargraphic exhaust and cats..No headers or the europipe set up. I am starting to grow fonder of europipe at this point, but the jury is still out. Opinions anyone???
Re: Cargraphics R-Exhaust system
Rockitman,
I get my GT3 2004 in about 10 days i will install the europipe and the carbon spoiler from albert see www.albertweb.de.
And belive me if its 12 or 20 hp more doesnt matter this 8 hp you will not feel on the street only on a race track but then you have to run every round into a 0.10 second, if you do that then i'm ok with your worry if not then just buy a exhaust.
Regards Bruno
I get my GT3 2004 in about 10 days i will install the europipe and the carbon spoiler from albert see www.albertweb.de.
And belive me if its 12 or 20 hp more doesnt matter this 8 hp you will not feel on the street only on a race track but then you have to run every round into a 0.10 second, if you do that then i'm ok with your worry if not then just buy a exhaust.
Regards Bruno
Re: Cargraphics R-Exhaust system
I am leaning towards the europipe system, although I will order the special version with straight pipes after the cats.
I received a very detailed and informative e-mail from Stefan at Europipe and found out that the cats they use are the same ones of the Supercup exhaust(the one with twin tailpipes), but with a special chemical coating that allows it to be more durable for street driving.
Rockitman: I've had very good experiences with Cargraphic and their exhaust I had on my GT2, but I feel that the Europipe is more specific to the new GT3 and the 100 cells OBD2 compliant cats really lure me...
I received a very detailed and informative e-mail from Stefan at Europipe and found out that the cats they use are the same ones of the Supercup exhaust(the one with twin tailpipes), but with a special chemical coating that allows it to be more durable for street driving.
Rockitman: I've had very good experiences with Cargraphic and their exhaust I had on my GT2, but I feel that the Europipe is more specific to the new GT3 and the 100 cells OBD2 compliant cats really lure me...
Forum
About Rennteam | Help | Terms of use | Privacy Policy | Support | Contact | Imprint | Archive
Powered by
Community
and
