Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: First "official" 997 GT3 Picture - Page1

Feb 11, 2006 10:48:13 AM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21152, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: sergini

Re: First "official" 997 GT3 Picture

That "PASM standard" thing must for US spec cars. I bet that Euro cars have a -20mm/LSD equivalent.

No mention of a rear LSD on the PASM car??? I can't believe this. A GT3 with electronic dampning and no rear LSD??? that not a GT3... no, no, this has to be only for US (maybe as a consecuence of the ambulance chaser lawyers e have been talking about that are trying to sue Porsche for making cars too sporty

)

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Feb 11, 2006 10:57:13 AM

zack: Co-Pilot; Loc: Dubai; Posts: 174, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 20, 2005; Reply to: sergini

Re: First "official" 997 GT3 Picture

I love the rear bumper, and the seats.

This is porsche espionage at its finest, THANKS

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Feb 11, 2006 11:35:03 AM

john999s: Senior; Loc: Hessen, Germany , Germany; Posts: 630, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2005; Reply to: zack

Re: First "official" 997 GT3 Picture

Brilliant. But I hope Carlos is right and we can get LSD and at least -20mm. Like the Turbo but LOVE this. Any pics of wheels? (Or am I being greedy!?)

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Feb 11, 2006 11:52:43 AM

03-turbo911: Pilot; Loc: Bahrain; Posts: 337, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 17, 2004; Reply to: john999s

Re: First "official" 997 GT3 Picture

Fantastic. Thanks for the pictures and specs.

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Feb 11, 2006 11:53:10 AM

sergini: Veteran; Loc: Italy -Bologna , Italy; Posts: 1163, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 12, 2003; Reply to: john999s

Re: First "official" 997 GT3 Picture

Carlos .....i think that new Gt3 has Pasm (and obviously the lsd) ...
This pasm is different to the 997S Pasm .
Last august at the Nuerburgring we talk to Walther Rorhl and he told us that the new Gt3 could be have the Pasm .
he said that thet Pasm will be very very hard in sport mode and better that "normal" suspensions.
note that the car has the 350 pccb ,not the new 380 .......but if u look closer u can see that the pic with yellow calipers is a Photoshop .....maybe the 380 pccb are not ready now .

For me the 997 Gt3 Rs will have the "regular" sport chassis . (and Dsg ,widebody ,console delete ,380 cup (!!!!) pccb ....)

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Feb 11, 2006 11:57:32 AM

Avantgarde: Senior; Loc: City State; Posts: 708, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 6, 2005; Reply to: john999s

Re: First "official" 997 GT3 Picture

I am beginning to fall in love with the aerokit now...the rear bumper does accentuate the lines of the spoiler and suggests power that it encompasses.

Ultimate coolness.

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Feb 11, 2006 12:03:01 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21152, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: sergini

Re: First "official" 997 GT3 Picture

Quote:
sergini said:
Carlos .....i think that new Gt3 has Pasm (and obviously the lsd) ...
This pasm is different to the 997S Pasm .
Last august at the Nuerburgring we talk to Walther Rorhl and he told us that the new Gt3 could be have the Pasm .
he said that thet Pasm will be very very hard in sport mode and better that "normal" suspensions.
note that the car has the 350 pccb ,not the new 380 .......but if u look closer u can see that the pic with yellow calipers is a Photoshop .....maybe the 380 pccb are not ready now .

For me the 997 Gt3 Rs will have the "regular" sport chassis . (and Dsg ,widebody ,console delete ,380 cup (!!!!) pccb ....)

I remember what you said about Walter Rohl talking about adjustable suspension on the GT3 but I was hoping for coilovers or something in that line, not PASM

You can't have a GT3 with electronic dampning, that doesn't make sense, its not only about the performance but also the articicial "feel" PASM gives to the car. We will have to wait and see how exactly the PASM in the GT3 is, but the carrera PASM in sport mode is more unconfortable than the -20mm, does not handle as well, and does not feel as good as the -20mm. There is not point in using electronic dampning on a GT3 since a second more confortable ride setting is not important on a GT3

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Feb 11, 2006 12:41:22 PM

SteveD: Co-Pilot; Loc: UK, M3 CSL/X6 35d/TT , United Kingdom; Posts: 247, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 18, 2003; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: First "official" 997 GT3 Picture

We NEED to hear what the spec of the GT3RS will be. Only then can we properly judge the GT3. If the RS comes 'without' PASM then that will define the GT3 as being a 'comfort' model. Likewise if the RS comes with a DSG gearbox that will polarise people's opinions as to which model they would prefer.

I only have a short time to confirm my place in the queue, yet I don't yet have the information I need.

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Feb 11, 2006 12:47:06 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21152, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: SteveD

Re: First "official" 997 GT3 Picture

Quote:
SteveD said:
We NEED to hear what the spec of the GT3RS will be. Only then can we properly judge the GT3. If the RS comes 'without' PASM then that will define the GT3 as being a 'comfort' model.

I hope not cause in that case I would prefer a 997S with -20mm/LSD, Powerkit, and sportchrono's PSM than a GT3 with PASM and TC... it doesn't make sense. We will have to wait until we hear more about about the GT3 specs before coming to any conclusions, I know the GT3 never falls short of expectations so lets wait and see.

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Feb 11, 2006 1:02:46 PM

SteveD: Co-Pilot; Loc: UK, M3 CSL/X6 35d/TT , United Kingdom; Posts: 247, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 18, 2003; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: First "official" 997 GT3 Picture

Unfortunately, those of us with our names already on the list only have a few weeks to make up our minds, and I'm down on the list of BOTH the GT3 and GT3RS, so need to choose..

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Feb 11, 2006 1:04:28 PM

vinnie: Veteran; Loc: Australia , Australia; Posts: 1005, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 25, 2005; Reply to: yongster

Re: First "official" 997 GT3 Picture

Very nice, much better looking than new Turbo. Pure.
Very impressive specific output of 115hp per litre, more than any naturally aspirated production porsche.

Wise words at the end: Powerful potential needn't always be used. It's enough to know that it's there.

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Feb 11, 2006 2:15:57 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: sergini

Re: First "official" 997 GT3 Picture

Interesting - I guess this means that there is still no way to have an aggressive LSD and PSM at the same time. I was curious about the rumors that the GT3 would have PSM this time.

I think the RS will have widebody and 3.8L motor and maybe no PASM (fixed sport suspension)...

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Feb 11, 2006 2:17:18 PM

CF: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Florida , United States; Posts: 1113, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 30, 2003; Reply to: vinnie

Re: First "official" 997 GT3 Picture

Sport tires

PASM

How dare some of you question the expertise of Weissach

TC - was hoping for PSM Race but better than nothing...

Upshift Indicator

Alcantara

CGT seats

Positive downforce Front and Rear

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Feb 11, 2006 2:23:20 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: CF

Re: First "official" 997 GT3 Picture

Quote:
CF said:
Sport tires
PASM How dare some of you question the expertise of Weissach
TC - was hoping for PSM Race but better than nothing...
Upshift Indicator
Alcantara
CGT seats
Positive downforce Front and Rear

Those all sound like good things, but I am worried about PASM. Many people report disappointment with the driver feedback of this system on the 997, Cayman and Boxster. They say it feels somewhat artificial. I hope it can be deleted. Otherwise, it may be difficult/impossible to replace with track coilovers, due to the electronic sensors. Also, i don't think TC is very useful, unless it is wet weather. PSM has some interesting advantages, but TC doesn't usually impress me much...

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Feb 11, 2006 2:24:58 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21152, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: Grant

Re: First "official" 997 GT3 Picture

Quote:
Grant said:
Those all sound like good things, but I am worried about PASM. Many people report disappointment with the driver feedback of this system on the 997, Cayman and Boxster. They say it feels somewhat artificial. I hope it can be deleted. Otherwise, it may be difficult/impossible to replace with track coilovers, due to the electronic sensors. Also, i don't think TC is very useful, unless it is wet weather. PSM has some interesting advantages, but TC doesn't usually impress me much...

Agreed 100%.

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Feb 11, 2006 2:43:03 PM

CF: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Florida , United States; Posts: 1113, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 30, 2003; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: First "official" 997 GT3 Picture

997 GT3 - US introduction Aug 2.
MSRP $ 106.000

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Feb 11, 2006 2:47:12 PM

yongster: Newbie; Loc: Canada; Posts: 23, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 21, 2003; Reply to: john999s

Re: First "official" 997 GT3 Picture

Quote:
john999s said: Any pics of wheels? (Or am I being greedy!?)

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Feb 11, 2006 3:29:02 PM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: First "official" 997 GT3 Picture

Fantastic!
415 hp from a 3.6 L engine, briliant!
This is car will be awesome.
Looking forward to read more on the PASM as this definitely comes as a surprise.
We'll see.
No PSM, good stuff. It's a proper sports car. Period.

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Feb 11, 2006 3:29:35 PM

john999s: Senior; Loc: Hessen, Germany , Germany; Posts: 630, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2005; Reply to: yongster

Re: First "official" 997 GT3 Picture

Thanks yongster!

So I believe mine's a GT3 then rather than a turbo. Can't wait to see what the suspension options are.

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Feb 11, 2006 4:02:41 PM

SoCal Alan: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Orange County , United States; Posts: 7268, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 6, 2004; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: First "official" 997 GT3 Picture

Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Quote:
sergini said:
Carlos .....i think that new Gt3 has Pasm (and obviously the lsd) ...
This pasm is different to the 997S Pasm .
Last august at the Nuerburgring we talk to Walther Rorhl and he told us that the new Gt3 could be have the Pasm .
he said that thet Pasm will be very very hard in sport mode and better that "normal" suspensions.
note that the car has the 350 pccb ,not the new 380 .......but if u look closer u can see that the pic with yellow calipers is a Photoshop .....maybe the 380 pccb are not ready now .

For me the 997 Gt3 Rs will have the "regular" sport chassis . (and Dsg ,widebody ,console delete ,380 cup (!!!!) pccb ....)

I remember what you said about Walter Rohl talking about adjustable suspension on the GT3 but I was hoping for coilovers or something in that line, not PASM
You can't have a GT3 with electronic dampning, that doesn't make sense, its not only about the performance but also the articicial "feel" PASM gives to the car. We will have to wait and see how exactly the PASM in the GT3 is, but the carrera PASM in sport mode is more unconfortable than the -20mm, does not handle as well, and does not feel as good as the -20mm. There is not point in using electronic dampning on a GT3 since a second more confortable ride setting is not important on a GT3

Carlos, I understand your concerns about the artificial feel of PASM. I believe your concern is because of how PASM changes the damping factor based on the driving conditions, regardless if in "PASM sport" mode or not. But if the PASM didn't intervene in those cases and the damping factor was the same in "PASM sport" mode as that of the -20mm suspension, you really can't tell the difference between the two correct? And the option of having a "softer ride" setting of PASM would then be a plus. Wouldn't this be a good idea for the GT3 if there was a "non-intervening PASM"? I could see having the softer setting for the GT3 for less than optimal roads.

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Feb 11, 2006 4:36:31 PM

Jean: Veteran; Loc: Seoul , South Korea; Posts: 1033, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 14, 2002; Reply to: yongster

Re: First "official" 997 GT3 Picture??

So, is this wide body? or short?
I can't tell the difference.

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Feb 11, 2006 5:00:56 PM

john999s: Senior; Loc: Hessen, Germany , Germany; Posts: 630, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2005; Reply to: Jean

Re: First "official" 997 GT3 Picture??

Looks like a narrow body from the pictures to me. But most comments have been that it's a widebody. Personally I hope its the narrow body because 911's are in danger of becoming 'big'. Plus if it's only got 5mm spacers on the wheels then that would support the narrow body theory. C4's have bigger spacers. Unless they changed the stub axles or suspension on the GT3. But I could be wrong....

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Feb 11, 2006 5:18:38 PM

Ron (Houston): Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Houston, TX , United States; Posts: 8812, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 10, 2002; Reply to: yongster

Re: First "official" 997 GT3 Picture

Hey yongster,

Thanks for taking the time and scanning all these pages, much appreciate it

.

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Feb 11, 2006 5:36:50 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21152, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: SoCal Alan

Re: First "official" 997 GT3 Picture

Quote:
SoCal Alan said:
Carlos, I understand your concerns about the artificial feel of PASM. I believe your concern is because of how PASM changes the damping factor based on the driving conditions, regardless if in "PASM sport" mode or not. But if the PASM didn't intervene in those cases and the damping factor was the same in "PASM sport" mode as that of the -20mm suspension, you really can't tell the difference between the two correct? And the option of having a "softer ride" setting of PASM would then be a plus. Wouldn't this be a good idea for the GT3 if there was a "non-intervening PASM"? I could see having the softer setting for the GT3 for less than optimal roads.

Yes but there a price to pay for the compromise of having two different dampening settings in the shocks, and that is that the springs cannot vary its stiffmess accordingly to match the dampning of the shocks, thefore the is a compromise to be made in the springs efficiency. Its like putting sport shocks on standard springs. Thats the problem, no matter how sporty the setting on the shock's dampning the springs will not be a perfect match, they will have to be midway in between soft and hard settings. I don't know if I explained that clearly, but hope you get what I mean.

A different matter is if they have electronic dampning shocks but with no normal setting, only the sport setting and then the springs could be tailored only to the sport setting, that would work, but then... what is the point of using electronic dampning? the traditional shock/springs are proven to be the most efficient for handling and are also more versatile since the GT3 is meant for track use, if you have PASM you will likely not be able to upgrade the suspension or install coilovers, etc. It doesn't make sense on a track oriented car like the GT3. But lets wait and see what they reffer to PASM in the GT3, because its still not clear that its going to be like in the Carrera, for example the Cayenne pneumatic suspensions are called PASM as well and its a totally different system that doesn't have anything to do with the PASM on the Carerra...

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Feb 11, 2006 5:46:09 PM

john999s: Senior; Loc: Hessen, Germany , Germany; Posts: 630, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2005; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: First "official" 997 GT3 Picture

Having read the material again I wouldn't be surprised if you get an option of sportier version of PASM (-20mm?)or conventional springs and shocks (lowered say 30mm) with both coming with LSD accounting for the TC. Clearly the non-PASM will suit cars which are regularly tracked and PASM suits those people who want a 'purer' 911 but who use it every day. I can't see why they would go for something totally different. It's disappointing to see the steering is the new sort as I thought the 996 version was close to perfect. But I suppose we should try it all first!

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Feb 11, 2006 5:46:49 PM

SteveD: Co-Pilot; Loc: UK, M3 CSL/X6 35d/TT , United Kingdom; Posts: 247, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 18, 2003; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: First "official" 997 GT3 Picture

I'm personally dissapointed that it doesn't have a paddle-shift gearbox, because after nearly 3 years of owning an M3 CSL I love it and find it ideally suited for the track.

I am optimistic for PASM and believe Porsche can set it up in such a way that adds to the dynamic capability. Porsche earn a large proportion of their earnings from engineering consulting and it makes sense that Porsche should use their best technology on the GT3 and RS, as long as this 'adds' to the dynamic performance of the car.

The claimed output from the 3.6L engine is a little disappointing, but I wonder if the 415bhp is their usual 'pessimism'? Since most GT3RS were quoted at 381bhp yet delivered nearer 410bhp, does this imply this 997 GT3 will produce nearer to 440bhp?

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Feb 11, 2006 5:55:29 PM

SteveD: Co-Pilot; Loc: UK, M3 CSL/X6 35d/TT , United Kingdom; Posts: 247, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 18, 2003; Reply to: SteveD

Re: First "official" 997 GT3 Picture

The first line of the brochure "The new 911 GT3 is designed primarily for the road."

Do you see this is a good sign or not? Are they preparing our expectations for a 'softer' interpertation of the GT3 gene or perhaps just placing a stake in the ground to distinguish the full-on GT3 from an 'even more' hardcore GT3 RS?

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Feb 11, 2006 6:11:33 PM

Silver Bullet: Veteran; Loc: Canada; Posts: 1126, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 24, 2004; Reply to: SteveD

Re: First "official" 997 GT3 Picture

Upshift indicator light!?!?!?!

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Feb 11, 2006 6:12:15 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21152, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: SteveD

Re: First "official" 997 GT3 Picture

Quote:
SteveD said:
I am optimistic for PASM and believe Porsche can set it up in such a way that adds to the dynamic capability.

I'm too, don't get me wrong. Its just that we are missing something here, either they a new PASM that doesn't have anything to do with the PASM on the Boxster and Carrera, or they are changing the GT3 philosophy into a "softer GT3" and a true-GT3 now to be called GT3RS.
But there is only so much they can soften the GT3 because the 997S can have the powerkit and the -20mm/LSD option which would be more drivers car than the GT3 with the PASM we know of. If thats the case they would have to offer a traditional sportier spring/shock like in the 997S with the -20mm/LSD, and maybe the US spec cars won't have this option hence the reason for not mentioning it in this brochure. But PASM as we know it in the Carrera is not compatible with the philosophy of the GT3 IMO

there must be something we don't know off I'm sure.

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Feb 11, 2006 6:16:00 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: vinnie

Re: First "official" 997 GT3 Picture

Like we predicted: 415 HP and 996 Turbo S performance.

A very nice car and compared to a fully equipped 997 Carrera S with powerkit a real "bargain".

The weight figure is actually a little disappointing but the RS will be lighter, so here's the "catch".

For serious track racing, getting the RS is definetely the better choice.

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