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Re: Can someone tell me why the Porsche TT has mandatory
My question is "what is the technical reason why the TT comes only in AWD"? Safety? If so why?
sdy284 your right for many reasons. One of which there will not be a 997 GT2. Also they only imported five 2004 GT2 's to the US. No market for the "widowmaker".
sdy284 your right for many reasons. One of which there will not be a 997 GT2. Also they only imported five 2004 GT2 's to the US. No market for the "widowmaker".
Re: Can someone tell me why the Porsche TT has mandatory
Quote:
racerx said:
SAFETY, too much power that comes on too quickly for the average senna wanna-be to handle. Not limited to the tt. Didn't you see the news in your area a couple weeks back?
I am not sure as to what your referring to.
I have always assumed safety was the main reason but yet when I survey Porsche's various models other than the C4 (basically an option) no other 911 model is equipped with AWD. Several of them have the power kit which increases hp.
BTW I have no secret agenda in asking the question. Just trying to understand.
Re: Can someone tell me why the Porsche TT has mandatory
Safety is just a (small) part of the complex of reasons.
The biggest one is GRIP in day to day situations.
Grip.
And grip.
The GT2 is not dedicated to daily use, so it's RWD for better track performance.
Also, i must say it's funny hearing someone call TT's AWD 'mandatory'. It's just how it's designed, not a feature 'commanded by an authority'. That's like saying humans have mandatory two legs. Duh.
The biggest one is GRIP in day to day situations.
Grip.
And grip.
The GT2 is not dedicated to daily use, so it's RWD for better track performance.
Also, i must say it's funny hearing someone call TT's AWD 'mandatory'. It's just how it's designed, not a feature 'commanded by an authority'. That's like saying humans have mandatory two legs. Duh.
Re: Can someone tell me why the Porsche TT has mandatory
Quote:
brunner said:
Safety is just a (small) part of the complex of reasons.
The biggest one is GRIP in day to day situations.
Grip.
And grip.
The GT2 is not dedicated to daily use, so it's RWD for better track performance.
Thanks for the reply and it makes sense. But please excuse my ignorance but if grip is a major factor(which I agree with) why not have it on all 911's? Presumably they are daily cars as well.
Feb 9, 2006 9:17:40 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: Can someone tell me why the Porsche TT has mandatory
Quote:
nberry said:
I have always assumed safety was the main reason but yet when I survey Porsche's various models other than the C4 (basically an option) no other 911 model is equipped with AWD. Several of them have the power kit which increases hp.
None have the HP of the TT Nick, except the GT versions wich don't have AWD for obvious reasons. Why does the Gallardo or Murc have AWD?
AWD offers better grip in slippery situations and also very importantly easier to deal with reactions and handling characteristics, AWD allows the average driver to extract more potential from the car and with less risk. When you are dealing with the HP figures of the TT it becomes a logical feature in a street car. The down side is a loss in sportiveness but to each his own.
Re: Can someone tell me why the Porsche TT has mandatory
GRIP is SAFETY. You have to be a better driver to handle power w/o the safety aids. Just because someone can afford a certain car does not mean they are qualified to drive it. Plus the power of a turbo can be surprising, i hear. A guy on my forum just reported spining his car on dry pavement taking a turn.
This link demonstrates what too much power can do when delivered to the rear wheels if you are not 100% paying attention;
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthrea...crash+san+diego
Too much power, too stiff chassis, for even pretty good drivers. I think porsche learned their lesson with the 930 for their production cars.
I knew of this back when it was posted but didn't want to be the bearer of bad news.
This link demonstrates what too much power can do when delivered to the rear wheels if you are not 100% paying attention;
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthrea...crash+san+diego
Too much power, too stiff chassis, for even pretty good drivers. I think porsche learned their lesson with the 930 for their production cars.
I knew of this back when it was posted but didn't want to be the bearer of bad news.
Re: Can someone tell me why the Porsche TT has mandatory
Because, obviously, not all 911s have TT's power and torque 
Judging by what i've read on this forum, the 997S with it's 'ancient' chassis layout does a great job at putting the power on the ground, and just doesn't need AWD.
And you do know they're offering an AWD Carrera, right?:)
Judging by what i've read on this forum, the 997S with it's 'ancient' chassis layout does a great job at putting the power on the ground, and just doesn't need AWD.
And you do know they're offering an AWD Carrera, right?:)
Re: Can someone tell me why the Porsche TT has mandatory
Quote:
nberry said:
Thanks for the reply and it makes sense. But please excuse my ignorance but if grip is a major factor(which I agree with) why not have it on all 911's? Presumably they are daily cars as well.
Your agenda is never secret, Nick. It is always much too transparent to be secret.
Re: Can someone tell me why the Porsche TT has mandatory
The AWD is a safty feature. The old 911s was a very tale happy car and with alot of power the car was extreamly dangerous if you lost control of the rear and you could find yourself sliding off the road. Therefor Porsche decided to equip the 911TT with AWD so that also nonskilled people could enjoy a high powered 911 without sliding off the road.
Re: Can someone tell me why the Porsche TT has mandatory
Quote:
racerx said:
GRIP is SAFETY. You have to be a better driver to handle power w/o the safety aids. Just because someone can afford a certain car does not mean they are qualified to drive it. Plus the power of a turbo can be surprising, i hear. A guy on my forum just reported spining his car on dry pavement taking a turn.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthrea...crash+san+diego
Too much power, too stiff chassis, for even pretty good drivers. I think porsche learned their lesson with the 930 for their production cars.
I knew of this back when it was posted but didn't want to be the bearer of bad news.
Thanks. I am familiar with this accident and know the owner. He formerly owned a GT2. I beleive he was with his brother and thank god neither one was seriously injured.
The owner is an excellent driver. His wife was adamantly opposed to him buying the CGT. He won the day and almost lost his and his brother life. Needless to say he will not be buying another one.
BTW the accident occurred in Dana Point a community about 100 miles north of SD.
Re: Can someone tell me why the Porsche TT has mandatory
Quote:
fritz said:Quote:
nberry said:
Thanks for the reply and it makes sense. But please excuse my ignorance but if grip is a major factor(which I agree with) why not have it on all 911's? Presumably they are daily cars as well.
Your agenda is never secret, Nick. It is always much too transparent to be secret.
Fritz I do not need to ask questions on this site if I was trying to make a case against Porsche. I have more experts than I know what to do with should I decide to pursue something against them.
I just found it curious that they only offered the tt in AWD.
Feb 9, 2006 9:36:17 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: Can someone tell me why the Porsche TT has mandatory
Quote:
fritz said:
Your agenda is never secret, Nick. It is always much too transparent to be secret.
By know when Nick says:
Quote:
nberry said:
BTW I have no secret agenda in asking the question. Just trying to understand.
You know there is something else going on for sure... he is probably doing research for a lawsuit against and "automaker" arguing that the cause of a driver crashing a car is because the automaker didn't make AWD mandatory
Re: Can someone tell me why the Porsche TT has mandatory
Remember that although the 911TT uses AWD one can still have lots of fun with the car since most of the car's weight is at the rear. In that was the car is still safe but more exciting than a Gallardo which uses AWD but has the engine in the middle of the car.
Re: Can someone tell me why the Porsche TT has mandatory
Quote:
Hurst said:
I think he brings up a valid point. I would much rather have a RWD TT...
Why? The ONLY disadvantage of the AWD is weight. Why do you think that AWD has been banned from most racing series, because it makes cars slowlier?!
And finally: drive a 996(!) Turbo at the limit and then we talk again about RWD on the Turbo. What do you mean that the GT2 is too "raw" for you? The GT2 is a "simple" 996 Turbo with a slightly different chassis and around 100 kg less weight. And I wonder why even professional race car drivers prefer to drive a GT3 on the track and not the GT2. Reason? You have to be the hell of a driver to be able to control the GT2 at the limit or to say it in a simple sentence: it takes a lot of driving skills to be able to follow a 996 Turbo in a GT2 on a tight track, taking in consideration that both drivers has similar driving skills. The worse the driver, the more advantage to the 996 Turbo driver.
Feb 9, 2006 10:42:17 PM
- brunner
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Reply to:
Carlos from Spain
Re: Can someone tell me why the Porsche TT has mandatory
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
By know when Nick says:
Quote:
nberry said:
BTW I have no secret agenda in asking the question. Just trying to understand.
You know there is something else going on for sure... he is probably doing research for a lawsuit against and "automaker" arguing that the cause of a driver crashing a car is because the automaker didn't make AWD mandatory
Maybe that explains why I feel the need to consult my lawyer before replying to any of Nick's posts
(and usually he just advises me to ignore him
)
Re: Can someone tell me why the Porsche TT has mandatory
This is really funny. I am trying to ask some basic questions about the Turbo and accused of some conspiracy to bring down Porsche. Fear not Porsche would make mince meat out of me and I do not have any ulterior motive.
Be that as it may, another stupid question. In response to the 930 litigation, did Porsche introduced AWD on future Turbo's?
Be that as it may, another stupid question. In response to the 930 litigation, did Porsche introduced AWD on future Turbo's?
Re: Can someone tell me why the Porsche TT has mandatory
Quote:
nberry said:
This is really funny. I am trying to ask some basic questions about the Turbo and accused of some conspiracy to bring down Porsche.
I wonder why?
But honestly, considering your recent posts on the safety issue, it's not too far-fetched to believe you're looking for an attack angle on Porsche.
Quote:
Fear not Porsche would make mince meat out of me
No wonder. Fritz and Carlos already do that, and they aren't even paid to do it
Quote:
Be that as it may, another stupid question. In response to the 930 litigation, did Porsche introduced AWD on future Turbo's?
No. They introduced AWD on the 964 Carrera, but the TT wasn't AWD untill the 993TT, which was launched some 10 years after that litigation.
Re: Can someone tell me why the Porsche TT has mandatory
For the record, I do not need any ammunition against Porsche. Also, I am not the one Porsche should be concerned about. The attorney handling the passenger case has made a very lucrative living suing car manufacturers. Porsche knows him well.
Most members of this board make mince meat out of me and that is why I thought it strange that suddenly I am threat. As a matter of fact, when people ask what kind of a lawyer am I, my response is a "lousy" one.
BTW I was under the impression that the 993 was the next Turbo model after the 930. Also, that Porsche was stung so bad by the verdict they took a hiatus from building Turbo's and selling them in the US.
Most members of this board make mince meat out of me and that is why I thought it strange that suddenly I am threat. As a matter of fact, when people ask what kind of a lawyer am I, my response is a "lousy" one.
BTW I was under the impression that the 993 was the next Turbo model after the 930. Also, that Porsche was stung so bad by the verdict they took a hiatus from building Turbo's and selling them in the US.
Re: Can someone tell me why the Porsche TT has mandatory
Quote:
nberry said:
Be that as it may, another stupid question. In response to the 930 litigation, did Porsche introduced AWD on future Turbo's?
Not for 17 more years after the car involved with the suit (1979). Two versions of the 965 (3.3L and 3.6L) were only RWD...
Yes, there was no 930 Turbo available from for MY1980-1985. 1986 930 was first to come back...
Re: Can someone tell me why the Porsche TT has mandatory
Quote:
nberry said:
I am not sure as to what your referring to.
I have always assumed safety was the main reason but yet when I survey Porsche's various models other than the C4 (basically an option) no other 911 model is equipped with AWD. Several of them have the power kit which increases hp.
BTW I have no secret agenda in asking the question. Just trying to understand.
Nick's next question:
why didn't Porsche make AWD mandatory on the CGT if it is such a safety item or at least warn buyers (see thread in the Porsche forum)
Nick you say you are a "lousy" layer, don't know about that but you are certainly a clever one
Re: Can someone tell me why the Porsche TT has mandatory
Quote:
nberry said:
My question is "what is the technical reason why the TT comes only in AWD"? Safety? If so why?
sdy284 your right for many reasons. One of which there will not be a 997 GT2. Also they only imported five 2004 GT2 's to the US. No market for the "widowmaker".
Nick,
You actually answered your rhetorical question with your response to sdy284. The modern 911Turbo (993-996-upcoming 997) is AWD, because Dr. Hellmuth Bott, head of Porsche R&D, and Herr Manfred Bantle, chief engineer for Porsche in the early 80's, designed in 1983 and manufactured henceforth the 200 requisite vehicles of the 959 (for group B homologation purposes), THE prototype of the modern 911Turbo in its current rear-engined, twin-turbocharged, AWD form. But contrary to the presumptions of at least one modern American litigation attorney, Bott and Mantle were not obsessing over the liability risks of marketing a modern 911Turbo with only RWD. Rather, they presciently believed that a 911Turbo with more technological advancement and greater power would be ever more popular in AWD, not RWD, form, simply because it would be easier to drive hard, and therefore enjoy, by larger numbers of amateur drivers worldwide, making it the successful luxury sports car that it has become. When Bott, Mantle and the Porsche board rejected a mid-engined/RWD 959 for the rear-engined/AWD 959, they did so with the future 911Turbo in mind, because they knew back then that a 911Turbo with AWD would sell better than with RWD.
Re: Can someone tell me why the Porsche TT has mandatory
Quote:
SciFrog said:Quote:
nberry said:
I am not sure as to what your referring to.
I have always assumed safety was the main reason but yet when I survey Porsche's various models other than the C4 (basically an option) no other 911 model is equipped with AWD. Several of them have the power kit which increases hp.
BTW I have no secret agenda in asking the question. Just trying to understand.
Nick's next question:
why didn't Porsche make AWD mandatory on the CGT if it is such a safety item or at least warn buyers (see thread in the Porsche forum)
Nick you say you are a "lousy" layer, don't know about that but you are certainly a clever one
Scifrog, if your not already a lawyer, you missed your calling.
Turbo Al interesting info which bring to mind many questions. However, those will be for another day.
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