Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - 992 (Next 911 generation 2019/2020) - Page12

Aug 16, 2017 6:09:06 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21148, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: noone1

Re: 992 (Next 911 generation 2018/2019)

noone1:
They could of course do it with an NA engine, but the fact remains that they don't have any new NA engines. They'll do it with a turbo simply because they already have turbo engines.

Yes, god forbid that "Porsche" has to develop an engine for the purpose... how in the world could the go about doing that Smiley

... doesn't make sense to use turbo and hybrid

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⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

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Aug 16, 2017 6:20:08 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: 992 (Next 911 generation 2018/2019)

Carlos from Spain:

... doesn't make sense to use turbo and hybrid

It wouldn't be very hard to make an NA version of the 3.0L Flat-6 to pair with hybrid. Different pistons and lots less hardware for turbochargers.

--

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

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Aug 16, 2017 6:27:45 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21148, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: Grant

Re: 992 (Next 911 generation 2018/2019)

Grant:
Carlos from Spain:

... doesn't make sense to use turbo and hybrid

It wouldn't be very hard to make an NA version of the 3.0L Flat-6 to pair with hybrid. Different pistons and lots less hardware for turbochargers.

Smiley My guess too is that that would be the choice, also save some weight at the same time to compensate for a part of the hybrid tech

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⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

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Aug 16, 2017 6:33:05 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: 992 (Next 911 generation 2018/2019)

Carlos from Spain:
Grant:

It wouldn't be very hard to make an NA version of the 3.0L Flat-6 to pair with hybrid. Different pistons and lots less hardware for turbochargers.

My guess too is that that would be the choice, also save some weight at the same time to compensate for a part of the hybrid tech

Since we're talking about Porsche here (and their desire to have a million permutations of the 911), I wouldn't be surprised to see both NA and turbocharged versions of the hybrid 911. A hybrid/turbo version actually has some appeal, using electric to "torque fill" during the periods where turbo motors would otherwise be a little anemic (from low rpm and throttle transitions where lag would be common otherwise). Sort of like a mini McLaren P1...

--

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

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Aug 16, 2017 6:41:55 PM

noone1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Los Angeles , United States; Posts: 5587, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2009; Reply to: Grant

Re: 992 (Next 911 generation 2018/2019)

$100 says it's turbo hybrid. You guys are dreaming. NA is on its way out in a big way.

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Aug 16, 2017 6:47:55 PM

SciFrog: Rennteam VIP; Loc: USA , United States; Posts: 9870, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 15, 2005; Reply to: noone1

Re: 992 (Next 911 generation 2018/2019)

Hybrid doesn't make much sense as it is, but turbo hybrid is ridiculous...

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Aug 16, 2017 6:58:10 PM

noone1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Los Angeles , United States; Posts: 5587, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2009; Reply to: SciFrog

Re: 992 (Next 911 generation 2018/2019)

Makes perfect sense to me. You guys just got done saying how awesome the Turbo S Hybrid Panamera is...

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Aug 16, 2017 8:18:13 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21148, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: noone1

Re: 992 (Next 911 generation 2018/2019)

noone1:
Makes perfect sense to me. You guys just got done saying how awesome the Turbo S Hybrid Panamera is...

We are talking about the Carrera, not the 911 Turbo Smiley

--

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

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Aug 16, 2017 9:54:12 PM

noone1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Los Angeles , United States; Posts: 5587, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2009; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: 992 (Next 911 generation 2018/2019)

Turbo is a turbo. New Carrera is probably as fast as a 997 Turbo, no?

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Aug 17, 2017 12:16:17 AM

Leawood911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Kansas, USA , United States; Posts: 6920, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 29, 2006; Reply to: noone1

Re: 992 (Next 911 generation 2018/2019)

noone1:
Turbo is a turbo. New Carrera is probably as fast as a 997 Turbo, no?

Most likely. That is Porsche's way. The next 911 will be as quick as the last GT3.

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Aug 17, 2017 1:02:07 AM

Whoopsy: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Vancouver,BC , Canada; Posts: 16151, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 19, 2006; Reply to: SciFrog

Re: 992 (Next 911 generation 2018/2019)

SciFrog:
Hybrid doesn't make much sense as it is, but turbo hybrid is ridiculous...

It actually make sense.

They could use bigger turbos for higher output, and use the electric motors for the low end when the engine is off boost.

Fuel economy cycles are done is tiny throttle input anyway, so the car will be rated nicely in that department.

As they can disengage the e-motor at higher rpm and let the gas engine do all the work, so the hybrid system is only working part time. Smaller battery requirement and smaller e-motor requirement.

E-motors are most efficient from rest to around mid range. After that they loses efficiency. One reason why pure electric doesn't make any sense for highway driving, especially those that travel at a constant speed, there is no chance to regenerate electricity. It's just a straight current draw. Think it through like a German, or any Europeans that has access to the autobahn. At the speed they are driving, a pure electric car's battery would be drained very quickly.

Even a Tesla can't do North American highway efficiently either. And that car was DESIGNED to excel in North American roads. Remember that hyper mileage record from a Tesla? They had to drive extraordinary slow to keep the electric motor in the most efficient range to stretch out the battery.

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Aug 17, 2017 8:37:06 AM

crayphile: Rennteam Pro; Loc: England , United Kingdom; Posts: 2861, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 16, 2004; Reply to: Whoopsy

Re: 992 (Next 911 generation 2018/2019)

Whoopsy:
SciFrog:
Hybrid doesn't make much sense as it is, but turbo hybrid is ridiculous...

It actually make sense.

They could use bigger turbos for higher output, and use the electric motors for the low end when the engine is off boost.

Fuel economy cycles are done is tiny throttle input anyway, so the car will be rated nicely in that department.

As they can disengage the e-motor at higher rpm and let the gas engine do all the work, so the hybrid system is only working part time. Smaller battery requirement and smaller e-motor requirement.

E-motors are most efficient from rest to around mid range. After that they loses efficiency. One reason why pure electric doesn't make any sense for highway driving, especially those that travel at a constant speed, there is no chance to regenerate electricity. It's just a straight current draw. Think it through like a German, or any Europeans that has access to the autobahn. At the speed they are driving, a pure electric car's battery would be drained very quickly.

Even a Tesla can't do North American highway efficiently either. And that car was DESIGNED to excel in North American roads. Remember that hyper mileage record from a Tesla? They had to drive extraordinary slow to keep the electric motor in the most efficient range to stretch out the battery.

I think you are both right. Hybrid as a fuel saving/ save the planet technology is an interim step. Electricity as a torque fill for performance cars makes sense but fails on its own in terns of the cheap thrill only lasts for a while and range is going to be a major issue for a while yet.

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Aug 17, 2017 12:42:58 PM

SciFrog: Rennteam VIP; Loc: USA , United States; Posts: 9870, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 15, 2005; Reply to: crayphile

Re: 992 (Next 911 generation 2018/2019)

Nick is right for the high end luxury and sport segment, which the focus of this group here at Renteam. For more normal cars no so much though.

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Aug 17, 2017 3:28:24 PM

Whoopsy: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Vancouver,BC , Canada; Posts: 16151, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 19, 2006; Reply to: SciFrog

Re: 992 (Next 911 generation 2018/2019)

I actually agree for the entry level or low end market where cars are just for city driving that electric car make the most sense.

Tiny engines even with turbos will have no 'power', it feels slow no matter what. Replace that with a electric motor and that car sudden feels snappy and 'exciting'.

Once the charging infrastructure is solved, I can certainly see a majority of cars within city to be cheap electric cars, perhaps a fleet of one time rentals parked on the side of the road for people to hop in, drive to wherever they needed to be, and park the car at the destination, plug it in and waiting for the next hire. Basically replacing taxis.

Imagine Manhattan without taxis...........................

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Sep 28, 2017 10:30:59 PM

Paulo_Rangel_Melo: Expert; Loc: Portugal , Portugal; Posts: 1528, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 23, 2003; Reply to: Whoopsy

Re: 992 (Next 911 generation 2018/2019)

New Renders

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This is the way this post ends, not with a bang but with a wisper, WOSHHHHHHHHHHHHH

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Sep 28, 2017 10:33:13 PM

Paulo_Rangel_Melo: Expert; Loc: Portugal , Portugal; Posts: 1528, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 23, 2003; Reply to: Paulo_Rangel_Melo

Re: 992 (Next 911 generation 2018/2019)

New Spy Pics

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This is the way this post ends, not with a bang but with a wisper, WOSHHHHHHHHHHHHH

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Sep 28, 2017 10:34:07 PM

Paulo_Rangel_Melo: Expert; Loc: Portugal , Portugal; Posts: 1528, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 23, 2003; Reply to: Paulo_Rangel_Melo

Re: 992 (Next 911 generation 2018/2019)

New Interior Spy.

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Sep 29, 2017 7:26:06 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59580, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Paulo_Rangel_Melo

Re: 992 (Next 911 generation 2018/2019)

Yep, digital dash. At some point, Porsche was rumored to use the virtual cockpit from the R8/Huracan but apparently they decided against it to add a flair of analogue (rev counter) to the dash. Size of navigation display is rumored to be the same as in Cayenne/Panamera but to be blunt, I think it is a tiny bit too big for the 911.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

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Sep 29, 2017 12:13:09 PM

Gauss: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Luxembourg , Luxembourg; Posts: 5822, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 3, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: 992 (Next 911 generation 2018/2019)

I thought the 992 would get smaller headlights. The spyshots show otherwise.

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Sep 29, 2017 12:18:30 PM

noone1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Los Angeles , United States; Posts: 5587, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2009; Reply to: Gauss

Re: 992 (Next 911 generation 2018/2019)

Should have just ditched the manual dial.

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Sep 29, 2017 12:47:38 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59580, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Gauss

Re: 992 (Next 911 generation 2018/2019)

Gauss:
I thought the 992 would get smaller headlights. The spyshots show otherwise.

Do they? Look carefully... Smiley

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

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Sep 29, 2017 1:09:42 PM

Paulo_Rangel_Melo: Expert; Loc: Portugal , Portugal; Posts: 1528, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 23, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: 992 (Next 911 generation 2018/2019)

How close are the renders posted above?

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This is the way this post ends, not with a bang but with a wisper, WOSHHHHHHHHHHHHH

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Sep 29, 2017 1:13:56 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59580, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Paulo_Rangel_Melo

Re: 992 (Next 911 generation 2018/2019)

Paulo_Rangel_Melo:
How close are the renders posted above?

Where it says "New Renders"? Rear is completely off and front is off as well but not by much.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

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Sep 29, 2017 2:13:39 PM

AP911: Senior; Loc: UAE , United Arab Emirates; Posts: 566, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 28, 2017; Reply to: RC

Re: 992 (Next 911 generation 2018/2019)

RC:
Yep, digital dash. At some point, Porsche was rumored to use the virtual cockpit from the R8/Huracan but apparently they decided against it to add a flair of analogue (rev counter) to the dash. Size of navigation display is rumored to be the same as in Cayenne/Panamera but to be blunt, I think it is a tiny bit too big for the 911.

Agreed. I don't like how they are copying the Cayenne/Panamera instead of the driver focused 918.

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Sep 29, 2017 2:24:51 PM

SciFrog: Rennteam VIP; Loc: USA , United States; Posts: 9870, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 15, 2005; Reply to: AP911

Re: 992 (Next 911 generation 2018/2019)

Not sure why they even botheedr to restyle the exterior. It looks exactly the same...

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Sep 29, 2017 2:26:51 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59580, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: SciFrog

Re: 992 (Next 911 generation 2018/2019)

SciFrog:
Not sure why they even botheedr to restyle the exterior. It looks exactly the same...

The shape is (almost) the same, the rear and front will look different. Actually, the rear will be adapted to the new Porsche style language and the front is typical 911 but with slightly smaller sized headlights.

I wish Porsche would have been a bit more courageous with the 911 design but if they bring the 960, I'm good. Smiley

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

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Sep 29, 2017 3:24:26 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21148, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: 992 (Next 911 generation 2018/2019)

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" ... Porsche doesn't need to take risks with the 911 since it's a winning formula that they just need to keep evolving, its the envy of the auto industry, so it's the others ones that need to reinvent things. Personally the 911 delivers what I want so I'm quite happy the 911 is so successful that it doesn't need to change and just keep up with technology with each generation. Those that the 911 does not deliver what they are looking for, hopefully Porsche can satisfy then with another model liked the 960.

--

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

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Sep 29, 2017 3:40:32 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59580, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: 992 (Next 911 generation 2018/2019)

Carlos from Spain:
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" ... Porsche doesn't need to take risks with the 911 since it's a winning formula that they just need to keep evolving, its the envy of the auto industry, so it's the others ones that need to reinvent things. Personally the 911 delivers what I want so I'm quite happy the 911 is so successful that it doesn't need to change and just keep up with technology with each generation. Those that the 911 does not deliver what they are looking for, hopefully Porsche can satisfy then with another model liked the 960.

I still love the 911 but it kind of got...a little bit...boring. Or maybe it is just me, I don't know.

My 991.1 C4 GTS Convertible lease ends next year in March and I have to admit that I feel sad about it. I wish my wife would buy the car, something she really considered in the past but now she has fallen for that damned Smiley C63 S AMG Convertible and she made up her mind, she wants the AMG (probably also because my son often refuses to be taken/picked up to/from school in the Porsche 911 for various reasons). Smiley

The 960 could really be a game changer for Porsche (and me) but if a 991.2 Turbo S costs over 200k now, how much will be a 960? Smiley Not sure I can really afford one and I also don't even know if I actually want one (if it sounds like crap Smiley ). Time will tell...maybe I am going to drive a Mercedes S class in five years...or a Tesla. Smiley Smiley

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

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Sep 29, 2017 4:01:14 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: 992 (Next 911 generation 2018/2019)

RC:
The 960 could really be a game changer for Porsche (and me) but if a 991.2 Turbo S costs over 200k now, how much will be a 960?

I am hopeful that they will have a wide range of 960 models, including one with RWD and NA (lower) power with a price that overlaps some 911 models.

--

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

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Sep 29, 2017 4:19:43 PM

noone1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Los Angeles , United States; Posts: 5587, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2009; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: 992 (Next 911 generation 2018/2019)

Carlos from Spain:
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" ... Porsche doesn't need to take risks with the 911 since it's a winning formula that they just need to keep evolving, its the envy of the auto industry, so it's the others ones that need to reinvent things. Personally the 911 delivers what I want so I'm quite happy the 911 is so successful that it doesn't need to change and just keep up with technology with each generation. Those that the 911 does not deliver what they are looking for, hopefully Porsche can satisfy then with another model liked the 960.

That's just another way of saying lazy.

Porsche sells most cars based on cachet, not because their tried and true methods are so amazing. What's better than a 991 GT2 RS? A 991 GT2 RS with an interior from a 918 or a 2020 911 concept.

If you don't take risks, you have no chance of making anything amazing. The 918 was a risk of doing something very new and it turned out amazing. The 911 is an exercise in profitability and brand value. This means you just get "good" 911s, not amazing 911s.

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