Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: 997 Turbo faster than Carrera GT??? - Page1

Jan 28, 2006 12:10:23 AM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13735, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Crash

Re: 997 Turbo faster than Carrera GT???

Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
nberry said:
Quote:
W8MM said:
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nberry said:
Sad, they got their money for the CGT and left their best customers holding the bag. Classic Porsche.

Sheeez, Nick!

Give it a rest.

Or, grow up.

Preferably both

Mike your right. The remark was uncalled for. Sorry.

Very classy move, Nick. But regarding your previous post, how did Porsche con its CGT buyers by possibly making the 997TT the better performer of the two? The CGT still costs three times as much and that's what matters to Ferrari enthusiasts

Guy's when your wrong, acknowledge and to the right thing.

Crash your point about the CGT costing three times as much as the TT and that is all that matters to us Ferrari owners has me befuddled. I suspect that if you peeled away some of my layers the cost of the car does influence ny buying decision since a major consideration is exclusivity. Good point.

BTW if the CGT had PSM and PDK it would be the hottest sport car sold on the market today. If Porsche retooled the CGT with those enhancements and priced it at around $350,000 I would buy one in a heart beat. Why? because it doesn't look or sound like a Porsche and the price would assure its exclusivity.

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Jan 28, 2006 9:28:21 AM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: nberry

Re: 997 Turbo faster than Carrera GT???

Quote:
nberry said:
Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
nberry said:
Quote:
W8MM said:
Quote:
nberry said:
Sad, they got their money for the CGT and left their best customers holding the bag. Classic Porsche.

Sheeez, Nick!

Give it a rest.

Or, grow up.

Preferably both

Mike your right. The remark was uncalled for. Sorry.

Very classy move, Nick. But regarding your previous post, how did Porsche con its CGT buyers by possibly making the 997TT the better performer of the two? The CGT still costs three times as much and that's what matters to Ferrari enthusiasts

Guy's when your wrong, acknowledge and to the right thing.

Crash your point about the CGT costing three times as much as the TT and that is all that matters to us Ferrari owners has me befuddled. I suspect that if you peeled away some of my layers the cost of the car does influence ny buying decision since a major consideration is exclusivity. Good point.

BTW if the CGT had PSM and PDK it would be the hottest sport car sold on the market today. If Porsche retooled the CGT with those enhancements and priced it at around $350,000 I would buy one in a heart beat. Why? because it doesn't look or sound like a Porsche and the price would assure its exclusivity.

That wouldn't be such a bad idea... Add PDK, PSM, tune the engine to 700 HP, sell it for $1.000.000 and call it a Ferrari

- they'd sell like hotcakes.

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Jan 28, 2006 9:44:44 AM

Walter: Pilot; Loc:; Posts: 453, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 20, 2006; Reply to: Crash

Re: 997 Turbo faster than Carrera GT???

I sometimes think that the CGT was only to compensate the production costs of the "race car CGT" that never raced.IMO the CGT lap time on the Nürburgring wasn't that impressiv.it was "only" 10-15 seconds slower than the GT3 RS.I say "only" considering that the CGT has 230hp more and generates a lot more downforce.

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Jan 28, 2006 10:41:31 AM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: Walter

Re: 997 Turbo faster than Carrera GT???

Quote:
Walter said:
I sometimes think that the CGT was only to compensate the production costs of the "race car CGT" that never raced.IMO the CGT lap time on the Nürburgring wasn't that impressiv.it was "only" 10-15 seconds slower than the GT3 RS.I say "only" considering that the CGT has 230hp more and generates a lot more downforce.

I agree with you. The Carrera GT (unfortuenately) is kind of an underperformer (tested acceleration times, NBR lap time).

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Jan 28, 2006 11:18:24 AM

paczo911: Junior; Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria; Posts: 79, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 1, 2005; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: 997 Turbo faster than Carrera GT???

Quote:
MKSGR said:
Quote:
Walter said:
I sometimes think that the CGT was only to compensate the production costs of the "race car CGT" that never raced.IMO the CGT lap time on the Nürburgring wasn't that impressiv.it was "only" 10-15 seconds slower than the GT3 RS.I say "only" considering that the CGT has 230hp more and generates a lot more downforce.

I agree with you. The Carrera GT (unfortuenately) is kind of an underperformer (tested acceleration times, NBR lap time).

Well, I agree that maybe the CGT, (unfortuenately for me too

) is kind of an underperformer, but it is still the best supercar out there, even monsters like the Koenigsegg CCR can't match it on a track, and that makes me proud as a Porsche-enthusiast!!!

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Jan 28, 2006 11:34:15 AM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: paczo911

Re: 997 Turbo faster than Carrera GT???

Quote:
paczo911 said:
Quote:
MKSGR said:
Quote:
Walter said:
I sometimes think that the CGT was only to compensate the production costs of the "race car CGT" that never raced.IMO the CGT lap time on the Nürburgring wasn't that impressiv.it was "only" 10-15 seconds slower than the GT3 RS.I say "only" considering that the CGT has 230hp more and generates a lot more downforce.

I agree with you. The Carrera GT (unfortuenately) is kind of an underperformer (tested acceleration times, NBR lap time).

Well, I agree that maybe the CGT, (unfortuenately for me too ) is kind of an underperformer, but it is still the best supercar out there, even monsters like the Koenigsegg CCR can't match it on a track, and that makes me proud as a Porsche-enthusiast!!!

That is true (maybe with the exception of the Enzo)

My dissatisfaction just results from the smaller than expected gap to the rest of the world... Just recall those very disappointing 0-300 kph figures (even the SLR was quicker not to mention the Enzo), the 0-200 tests which were substantially above the Porsche claimed figures. An an improvement of less than 10 seconds on the 996 GT2 (NBR time) is also not what I would call satisfactory...

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Feb 4, 2006 1:08:52 AM

bstew: Expert; Loc: NC, USA; Posts: 1797, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 11, 2005; Reply to: SoCalHoosier

Re: 997 Turbo faster than Carrera GT???

Quote:
SoCalHoosier said:

If true... I'd be slightly pissed if I were the owner of the CGT.

Why? If I where lucky enought to own a CGT it wouldn't bother me if Porsche came out with a newer car that exceeded mine in some areas. To me owning a CGT is more then just going fast. Now this is just me. I have never driven one but man if I could.

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Feb 4, 2006 12:50:11 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Walter

Re: 997 Turbo faster than Carrera GT???

Quote:
Walter said:
I sometimes think that the CGT was only to compensate the production costs of the "race car CGT" that never raced.IMO the CGT lap time on the Nürburgring wasn't that impressiv.it was "only" 10-15 seconds slower than the GT3 RS.I say "only" considering that the CGT has 230hp more and generates a lot more downforce.

Have you seen the Hockenheim Kleiner Ring lap time? The Carrera GT is still a sportscar masterpiece and in the hands of the right person, it can't be "beaten" on the track. Each owner should just be happy that he can afford and own one.

Yes, the 997 Turbo seems to be a very fast car but it is still a "compromise". Even if it is a very attractive compromise.

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Feb 4, 2006 5:00:42 PM

bostonmini: Veteran; Loc:; Posts: 924, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 31, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: 997 Turbo faster than Carrera GT???

RC-
did u ever get any info (somebody at the factory must wonder!) why the CGT was so slow in that super test to 300 KPH? I ask bc if it were me, and that was all aerodynamics that ultimately gave the best handling, it might be worth it; but i just dont understand how to 130 mph (220 KPH) its roughly eqaul to the enzo, then it just hits a wall! any explanation?

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Feb 4, 2006 6:32:20 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: bostonmini

Re: 997 Turbo faster than Carrera GT???

Quote:
bostonmini said:
RC-
did u ever get any info (somebody at the factory must wonder!) why the CGT was so slow in that super test to 300 KPH? I ask bc if it were me, and that was all aerodynamics that ultimately gave the best handling, it might be worth it; but i just dont understand how to 130 mph (220 KPH) its roughly eqaul to the enzo, then it just hits a wall! any explanation?

Sorry, I don't know. I read several reviews and I can't remember a single one where the CGT performed under 10 seconds from 0-200 kph. Up to 300 kph, this is a different story. Apparently Porsche wanted to achieve a high top speed and somehow neglected the 0-300 kph performance.
And since at higher speeds, power and torque are actually more worth than low weight figures...

Personally, I never understood why Porsche builds a car like the Carrera GT, I actually would have loved to see a high performance 959 successor (969?) with a turbo charged V10 at 700 HP maybe?

I can't hide the feeling that Porsche used the CGT as some sort of "alibi" to excused their lack of presence in the international professional motorsport scene.

Anyway: the CGT is a very fine sportscar and owners should be happy that they got one.

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Feb 4, 2006 9:22:20 PM

Turbo Al: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Rochester, New York , United States; Posts: 2531, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: RC

Re: 997 Turbo faster than Carrera GT???

Quote:
RC said:
Personally, I never understood why Porsche builds a car like the Carrera GT, I actually would have loved to see a high performance 959 successor (969?) with a turbo charged V10 at 700 HP maybe?

RC,

I had thought that the 959 was the unofficial prototype of the modern 911Turbo, a masterpiece of automotive engineering and production, even more than 20 years ahead of its time, headed by Prof. Hellmuth Bott (head of R&D) and chief engineer Manfred Bantle, with "thoughts" of building a mid-engined RWD car not "officially" abandoned until mid-1983. I read that on 2/21/83, when Prof. Bott and Herr Bantle, along with dept. heads Peter Falk, Hans Mezger Paul Hensler, met, they formalized the 959 as a testbed for the future 911 with its current AWD/TT setup that continues to evolve-reportedly with electronically controlled AWD and VTG's.

Man, that "C20" 911 was a piece of work: Suspension with unequal length double superimposed arms, progressive coil springs, two coupled telescopic dampers per wheel, with hydropneumatically adjustable suspension height and driver-controlled shock absorber hardness settings with computer control for high speeds. Not to mention the wheels with a tire pressure monitoring system, and run-flat tires., and a Kevlar and aluminum body for a curb weight of 2,900lb with a Cd of 0.31, water-cooled heads for the 6-cylinder engine, of course boosted by the twin-turbo's up to 14.0psi for a peak HP of 450 at 6,500rpm, and powering the electronically controlled AWD with 4 settings. This was good for:

0-60mph of 3.5sec,
0-100mph of 8.3sec,
quarter mile in 11.8sec trapped at 120mph, and
top speed of nearly 200mph.

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Feb 5, 2006 6:44:21 AM

bostonmini: Veteran; Loc:; Posts: 924, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 31, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: 997 Turbo faster than Carrera GT???

No question a great sportscar; and IMO a spiritual successor to a car like the 550 spyder, but again, just dont understand why they didnt apply all the technology; like no PSM, no awd, no turbos and a slow acceleration in some tests while usually porsche didnt care abou topspeed!

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Feb 5, 2006 10:39:48 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: bostonmini

Re: 997 Turbo faster than Carrera GT???

Quote:
bostonmini said:
No question a great sportscar; and IMO a spiritual successor to a car like the 550 spyder, but again, just dont understand why they didnt apply all the technology; like no PSM, no awd, no turbos and a slow acceleration in some tests while usually porsche didnt care abou topspeed!

Like I said before, I think that some people at Porsche wanted to prove that they're still capable of building a "pure" sportscar without those "gimmicks" like AWD, PSM and so on. Some sort of "alibi" for not doing professional racing in the "major league" anymore.
Funny enough, I don't think that the Carrera GT is actually the supersportscar hardcore Porsche Fans expected from Porsche. With the 959, Porsche created and showed a "vision" to the world, a vision which became true in the form or the 993 Turbo and 996 Turbo a couple of years later.
I just wish they would have done the same with the Carrera GT. And to be honest: I never understood the name of this car either...CARRERA? A mid engined Porsche? Naahhh.
But I like and always liked the Carrera GT, it is a very fast and impressive piece of equipment. Just not the thing I expected from a company like Porsche. In my opinion the Carrera GT has more Ferrari soul than Porsche soul. I leave it to your fantasy to try to understand what I mean by that.

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Feb 6, 2006 4:31:31 AM

bostonmini: Veteran; Loc:; Posts: 924, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 31, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: 997 Turbo faster than Carrera GT???

I know exactly what you mean, more focused on fun to drive than technical achievment!

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Feb 6, 2006 1:23:32 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: bostonmini

Re: 997 Turbo faster than Carrera GT???

Quote:
bostonmini said:
I know exactly what you mean, more focused on fun to drive than technical achievment!

Actually I meant mor focused on the "AAHHH" effect than on technical achievement.

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Feb 7, 2006 5:41:23 AM

bostonmini: Veteran; Loc:; Posts: 924, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 31, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: 997 Turbo faster than Carrera GT???

This thread has kept me up at night lately! I so desperately want to like the CGT bc honestly I love all porsches and the quality/engineering within....The CGT shines in some areas im quite sure, specificially handling, but this car seems full of contradictions; extreme downforce, yet even jay leno spun @ 180 for some reason, great acceleration (on par with enzo) to 1/4 mile, but hits a brick wall after....I just dont know, but the engine is incredible, and the chassis is as well, so im curious as to the point of the car, and most of all, how is the super car a topless one???? RC, tell me why to love this car! hehehe.

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