Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Anyone intered in my Cayman? ( UK ) - Page1

Jan 15, 2006 8:15:50 PM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8797, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: ISUK

Re: Anyone intered in my Cayman? ( UK )

Quote:
ISUK said:
Cheers throt. I didn't realise that I was being sizeist so sincere apologies to any Cayman owners as no offence was intended. If it helps to redress the balance I also think the 997 is a nice little car and I owned one of the those No doubt the 997 boys will get upset now

They are a prickly lot, the Cayman fans, if you dare criticise their icon, as I found out.

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Jan 15, 2006 8:17:59 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: ISUK

Re: Anyone intered in my Cayman? ( UK )

Quote:
ISUK said:
If it helps to redress the balance I also think the 997 is a nice little car and I owned one of the those No doubt the 997 boys will get upset now

Hell no!

If you want your car to be agile, sporty and to handle well, the last thing you want it to be is BIG.

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Jan 15, 2006 8:25:51 PM

markwm: Newbie; Loc: uk; Posts: 48, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 14, 2006; Reply to: dreamcar

Re: Anyone intered in my Cayman? ( UK )

Quote:
dreamcar said:
Quote:
ISUK said:
Cheers throt. I didn't realise that I was being sizeist so sincere apologies to any Cayman owners as no offence was intended. If it helps to redress the balance I also think the 997 is a nice little car and I owned one of the those No doubt the 997 boys will get upset now

They are a prickly lot, the Cayman fans, if you dare criticise their icon, as I found out.

It's not just Cayman owners, it would be the same in the 997 forum if the 997 was getting bad mouthed. Everyone wants to defend their purchase, to confirm to themselves they have made the right choice.

It's only natural.

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Jan 15, 2006 10:52:37 PM

lavaman23: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 81, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 4, 2004; Reply to: markwm

Re: Anyone intered in my Cayman? ( UK )

I accept that some of you looking at a Cayman S would only opt for a new car but you can't make an asumption that no-one could be swayed from a new Cayman to a used 996 or 997. I can afford a new 997 but have chosen to go for a 996 GT3/TT this spring, the thought of a new Pounds50k is appealing but so does a 996 GT3/TT IMO. Remember new isn't always better.

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Jan 15, 2006 10:54:02 PM

toplad: Co-Pilot; Loc: UK; Posts: 166, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 13, 2004; Reply to: markwm

Re: Anyone intered in my Cayman? ( UK )

I'm not paranoid or angry I'm just bored of the negative BS.

I reckon a least 50% of the threads on the Cayman side of Rennteam end up with someone joining the thread and saying, 1) Cayman is overpriced, 2) Will not sell, 3) People who buy the Cayman secretly want a 911 and can't afford it.

This thread is a prefect example, because one bloke doesn't want to complete it's indicative of the markets reaction to the new Porsche; and you've got the same old doom merchants jumping in again, it's all becoming very tiresome.

As other posters have said, if it was on the 997 side it would be a different storey, it's not that I mind an informed discussion with a differing opinions, but it isn't. It's the same old rubbish by posters who mostly haven't even driven the car, but seem to be internet experts on the subject and what Cayman should be and cost, probably influenced by there own purchase choices.

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Jan 15, 2006 11:10:15 PM

markwm: Newbie; Loc: uk; Posts: 48, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 14, 2006; Reply to: toplad

Re: Anyone intered in my Cayman? ( UK )

The good press has fuelled all the arguments, how many reviews have said "better than a 911"...? tons. This instantly puts 911 owners on the defensive, certain would be Cayman owners start believing the hype and it goes from there.

I dunno, I had a Cayman on order since Novemeber, I never once thought I'd be getting a better car than a 911, a car that costs a whole lot more money. Just a car that's different, but as good in it's own way.

I keep hearing mixed views on demand, so who knows.

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Jan 15, 2006 11:14:03 PM

lavaman23: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 81, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 4, 2004; Reply to: toplad

Re: Anyone intered in my Cayman? ( UK )

You're right, no one should be paranoid or angry about people expressing a personal opinion on a car.

Look, in life you're bound to run into to people in every life situation be it, someone may question your sanity to spend what they regard as excessive PoundsPoundsPounds to purchase something that gets to A to B but hell if you work hard for it then enjoy it.

I remember my work colleagues thinking I was mad to spend Pounds40k on a BMW M3 - as they percieved it as an overpriced tarted up 3 Series. If people have an opinion just take in what they say and move on, don't let it get to you, life is too short...enjoy

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Jan 16, 2006 12:40:47 AM

HHG: Junior; Loc: Ohio, USA; Posts: 126, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 30, 2005; Reply to: markwm

Re: Anyone intered in my Cayman? ( UK )

Quote:
markwm said:
I had a Cayman on order since Novemeber, I never once thought I'd be getting a better car than a 911, a car that costs a whole lot more money. Just a car that's different, but as good in it's own way.

I agree. My Cayman is on the docks waiting shipment to the USA. With options, it cost more than many 911 Carreras. I consider the Cayman not better, but different than the 911 Carrera. I prefer the Cayman. I can understand why many, if not most, on this form prefer the 911 Carrera, and that's ok. But, I can think for myself and choose the car best for me.

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Feb 2, 2006 1:20:58 PM

markwm: Newbie; Loc: uk; Posts: 48, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 14, 2006; Reply to: HHG

Re: Anyone intered in my Cayman? ( UK )

There's a guy on ebay bidding on this Cayman http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Porsche-Cayman-S-2...1QQcmdZViewItem

I spoke to him and he said he refuses to pay list. Yet he's bidding on a used Cayman, with at least 1 owner already and it's a 55 plate in February. He's currently what, about 1500 quid off list already with reserve not met. Whatever he saves on list price is totally wiped out by the fact that the reg plate will be outdated in a few days and he'll be the 2nd owner.

Some people eh? for an extra Pounds1500 he could have my car, visually identical but better specced IMO, 06 plate and he'd be the first owner.

I don't quite understand the logic of some people myself.

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Feb 2, 2006 1:35:46 PM

KenH: Co-Pilot; Loc: Leesburg VA; Posts: 249, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 23, 2004; Reply to: markwm

Re: Anyone intered in my Cayman? ( UK )

"the fact that the reg plate will be outdated in a few days"

What nonsense! Only in the UK do people care about such things.

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Feb 2, 2006 2:11:14 PM

markwm: Newbie; Loc: uk; Posts: 48, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 14, 2006; Reply to: KenH

Re: Anyone intered in my Cayman? ( UK )

Quote:
KenH said:
"the fact that the reg plate will be outdated in a few days"

What nonsense! Only in the UK do people care about such things.

Yea, and guess where I'm from? We have to care about such things, we're at the mercy of the DVLA. People will leave a car at the dealers for 2+ months in order to get the latest reg plate. Why? because people care about resale value and other superficial things.

If people didn't care about reg plates, they'd all be paying list price for new cars in February, which they're not.

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Feb 3, 2006 10:33:10 AM

KenH: Co-Pilot; Loc: Leesburg VA; Posts: 249, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 23, 2004; Reply to: markwm

Re: Anyone intered in my Cayman? ( UK )

You have obviously missed the irony here.
You obviously value the latest registration number but the ebay buyer, the man with the money, does not!

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Feb 3, 2006 11:46:36 AM

markwm: Newbie; Loc: uk; Posts: 48, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 14, 2006; Reply to: KenH

Re: Anyone intered in my Cayman? ( UK )

You don't know if that's true or not. He may just well be stupid.

To say someone doesn't value paying over the odds for a 55 plate in february, suggests to me he doesn't care about residuals. But the same guy told me he "refuses to pay list" so he clearly does care about money.

Like it or not, if you have two identical cars, identical in every way. The only difference being one was registered 28 feb, the other 1st March. One of the cars will fetch a good amount more than the other come resale.

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Feb 3, 2006 12:13:51 PM

Porsche-Jeck: Rennteam Master; Loc: Rheinland , Germany; Posts: 4856, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 27, 2005; Reply to: markwm

Re: Anyone intered in my Cayman? ( UK )

Just a stupid question from somebody not familiar with the UK market: why is it, that first of March separates "old cars" from "new cars" in terms of psychology/perception

In Germany (and I think for most of the other european countries) the psychological threshold is just the calendar year: so you're better off to register your new car January,1 rather than December, 31.

Carmakers like Porsche are trying to trick the perceived age of a car by inventing the so called "Model Year", which - per my observations - doesn't help too much, unless there would be a major facelift, performance enhancements etc. for the new MY. Therefore a Porsche first registered in - let's say October '05 - is just perceived as a '05 Porsche and not '06 whatever the MY would be.

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Feb 3, 2006 1:27:26 PM

GR: Senior; Loc: S Bucks, England , United Kingdom; Posts: 779, Gallery; Registered on: May 17, 2005; Reply to: Porsche-Jeck

Re: Anyone intered in my Cayman? ( UK )

The number plates are numbered in such a way that every 6 months they increment up. This means that by simply checking the number plate, you can tell a car's age to within a few months. Also, people like to have the latest number plate on their new car and the newest possible plate on second hand cars. As the change over dates are 1st March and 1st September, cars registered in February or August are not as valuable as cars registered just one month later.

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Feb 3, 2006 3:42:16 PM

KenH: Co-Pilot; Loc: Leesburg VA; Posts: 249, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 23, 2004; Reply to: GR

Re: Anyone intered in my Cayman? ( UK )

"Like it or not, if you have two identical cars, identical in every way. The only difference being one was registered 28 feb, the other 1st March. One of the cars will fetch a good amount more than the other come resale."

You don't know that either!
If the man with the money doesn't care then why should you?
You seem to be assuming that everyone has the same value structures as you do or they are probably be stupid. Why not just accept that many people don't care about March registrations, especially for a very new model where it almost certainly makes no difference whatsoever?

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Feb 3, 2006 4:03:43 PM

markwm: Newbie; Loc: uk; Posts: 48, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 14, 2006; Reply to: KenH

Re: Anyone intered in my Cayman? ( UK )

Quote:
KenH said:
"Like it or not, if you have two identical cars, identical in every way. The only difference being one was registered 28 feb, the other 1st March. One of the cars will fetch a good amount more than the other come resale."

You don't know that either!
If the man with the money doesn't care then why should you?
You seem to be assuming that everyone has the same value structures as you do or they are probably be stupid. Why not just accept that many people don't care about March registrations, especially for a very new model where it almost certainly makes no difference whatsoever?

KenH, you're arguing a point that the whole UK car trade would disagree with you on. The market dictates 2nd hand value. Why do you think August and February are slow times for new car purchases at list? Even if, like you say someone didn't care about reg plates, he'd still get a discount if he were to buy a new car off the showroom in february.

Go to any dealer in the country and ask him/her if reg plate makes a difference to the cars value. I know what the answer will be.

I can't see anyone else from the UK arguing the same point as you?

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Feb 3, 2006 5:25:30 PM

KenH: Co-Pilot; Loc: Leesburg VA; Posts: 249, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 23, 2004; Reply to: markwm

Re: Anyone intered in my Cayman? ( UK )

When I find an OPC discounting a car registered in February over an equal car registered in March (other than by the fraction for the extra month age itself) I will believe you.
It certainly happens for December cars v. January cars though, but even so Caymans are in such short supply at the moment it hardly matters.
I grant you that this kind of thing does happen in the "mass market" where car dealers do not know sufficient about the resale prices of the myriad of different cars that they have to purchase and have to resort to Glass's Guide or CAP for a simplistic valuation. In my experience OPC buyers are extremely well aware of the likely resale values of the Porsches they purchase and condition, spec, colour and so on are what they are looking for - they don't need to look up in a guide.
August is a slow time for car purchases in all of Europe because it is school holiday time. Most car factories are closed and after the factories re-open new production is often changed and is re-designated as the next model year. So if you want a 2007 model wait until September 2006 for delivery.
February is a slow time for almost every business. The January mini-boom of new year registrations is over, the weather is poor and so on. March/April comes and spring is in the air along with longer days.

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Feb 3, 2006 9:08:55 PM

KenH: Co-Pilot; Loc: Leesburg VA; Posts: 249, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 23, 2004; Reply to: KenH

Re: Anyone intered in my Cayman? ( UK ) re-think

OK, after some research I do now accept that there are some extraordinary blips in the car sales figures in the UK for March and September. Beats me why!
In most countries, including North America and Europe the overall pattern is much the same, but less pronounced. February and July/August tend to be slow for sales whereas March and September/October tend to be high spots.
There are some distinct oddities such as BMW sales in the UK being much higher in December than January (and many other odd such instances) but one imagines that they are the result of promotional activity (and pre-registrations) rather than real sales per se.
So, having accepted that February sales are very low and March sales are very high in the UK, does this imply that a March registered car is worth more than a February car when the time comes for them to be sold?
I think the answer is that people buy in March rather than February (the reality is that they often buy in January or February but delay delivery until March or April - or that the car is built to order and will not be available until then) in the belief that they are buying something more valuable.
But is that a valid belief? Or is it just a lemming-like feeling like "One can't go wrong by investing in property?".
Logic implies that one is indeed more likely to get a better deal for a February delivery than a March delivery - but most sales in February are for March delivery anyway. So there is unlikely to be anything in it unless the dealer has a car in stock and you are prepared to take it immediately.
More to the point is that there are a very large number of March deliveries and the majority of these buyers will be trading in an existing car. If they are believers in the "March is more valuable than February" hypothesis they will have bought (really registered) their trade-ins in a previous March.
So what happens? There is a glut of March registered cars offered as trade-ins and the dealers price them for buying accordingly! Which of course means lower. Naturally a January or February registered car offered as a trade-in suffers from the same problem too.
My suggestion is that:
1. If you can buy a new Porsche in an "unfashionable month" (eg February) then go for it.
2. Trade or sell it in at an equally unfashionable time to avoid the "glut".
3. Don't be a lemming - buy and sell when it makes sense to you.

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Feb 21, 2006 1:26:25 PM

markwm: Newbie; Loc: uk; Posts: 48, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 14, 2006; Reply to: KenH

Re: Anyone intered in my Cayman? ( UK ) re-think

Back to the original point, my car is still available. I just heard from the dealer that's it's with them now. Current situation is, 3k deposit paid by me, car is with dealer. I don't get my deposit back until car finds new home.

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